He isn't skint.

[AmIbeingUn]

NC for this as personal/outing. Am wondering AIBU? Or WWYD?

Began seeing a local man met on OLD. We matched so perfectly: same age, local, some mutual acquaintances, similar hobbies, outlook, politics, music taste, humour etc. Found him incredibly sexually and emotionally attractive and vice versa.

We became very close and cosy very quickly: daily contact, usually in person, in and out of each others' houses for coffee and a chat, sleeping over at each others houses often, meeting each other's friends and family. Talked loads, for hours, about a wide range of subjects and very frankly. Within weeks we were so close and comfortable with one another it felt like we'd been together for ages.

The only thing that wasn't perfect was that he had no spare spending money. He had gone part time at work to give him the time to renovate his house, singlehandedly, and those renovations also ate up all the money he had left over after paying mortgage and bills. He warned me that, until the house was finished and he returned to full time working, he could not afford to spend much on going out, going away, buying me gifts, unless it was cheap and we split the costs. I am not materialistic so I did not care and to be honest I am a homely person who is more than happy to have dates at each other's houses, cooking each other a meal or watching a film. For Xmas he saw something in a charity shop window which he knew I would love and he even admitted it had cost him only £2 and said he felt guilty and mean and sorry and hoped I would tolerate his being skint until he got back to work and could treat me properly and take me to a swanky restaurant now and again.

Whilst chatting and being in his home whilst things were happening in his daily life he would mention now and again that he was down to his last few pounds, or that the purchase of some essential building materials or an emergency dental problem or vet bill had wiped his bank account. I am not wealthy but I do have a couple of hundred pounds left over every month which I usually just put into a savings account. He never once asked me for money and in fact when I offered to lend him money once or twice he absolutely refused. When I offered to treat him to a fancy meal out or a theatre ticket he also refused, saying that unless he could pay at least his own share, he would not go. I saw these refusals as a confirmation of his honesty and integrity.

One day I was at his house reading the paper after breakfast and he was opposite me on his laptop. As he went to answer the front door I took the dirty plates to the sink and as I turned round to walk back to the table I could not help myself, my eyes were drawn to the screen which had some kind of spreadsheet of figures. I was absolutely staggered to see that he had stocks and shares and an ISA totalling £1.5m. When he came back into the room I just pretended I had not seen anything because I knew I should not have been snooping but I went home and was literally in shock and also really angry that he had been lying to me the whole time.

Next time I stayed at his I deliberately snooped when he was in the shower, and read an open letter about the sale of a flat he owned (which he had never mentioned to me). £250,000 from the sale had been deposited into my boyfriend's bank account about a week before, and yet that very day he had been saying how broke he was.

Am I in the wrong for snooping or is he in the wrong for telling me for a whole year the lie that he is struggling financially from month to month?

What would you do? Confront him and admit you snooped? End it? Tell yourself his finances are none of your business?

I wonder at the word partner used by English people. Literally you sleep with the person, see them very rarely but call them a partner and are surprised they have interest of using your money for communal ends. This is what married people do, share money and know of each other's money. If you think another being should not know about it, don't call them a partner, call them a sex date, my shagging date, whatever

I also think this is a choice he's making. He could afford to eat out but he chooses to buy food without stickers.
He lied by omission maybe but what would happen if you asked him outright: do you have over £1.4 million in the bank? His answer would tell you if he was lying to you.

Yes it is unusual, but I realised when I turned 18 what a con it was giving tit for tat as Martin Lewis would say.

It is a complete waste of time and money for adults to give other adults presents(for my step children and step grandchildren we give cash because we can afford to, if we couldn't afford it we wouldn't give anything).

And the number of threads on here about unwanted and unappreciated presents shows who stress present giving causes.

You can be generous without buying presents. I would much rather give money to charity than buy tat for the sake of it.

It’s a little bit weird. I was expecting him to have made a comment or two in passing but this is a very elaborate lie!! All these comments and keep it going a while too.

Some people make a distinction between savings (ISA/ property) and day-to-day earnings, and don’t see savings and investments as ‘real’ money. So maybe in terms of regular income he is broke?

I was expecting to read something similar to my recent experiences:

• Man not really hiding his wealth but absolutely not mentioning it. Put on a display of being broke and living like he was a bit broke, turned out he comes from a very wealthy and prominent family but trying to keep it a secret. Zero judgement on that, I’d do the same
• Different man quitting his job and living really frugally despite being open about having a few quid in savings, expensive house etc. What made me decide against him was that he was completely unwilling to spend money on having fun with me, despite being a lot more able to afford it than me. No harm in being frugal but I wasn’t going to be doing things alone cos he was a bit tight

I’m absolutely fine with people hiding their wealth and background, but the fact that your guy made such a show out of it really puts me off! If you don’t want to discuss your finances openly, just don’t discuss them, it doesn’t need to come up very much unless relevant, eg holidays, days out etc.

This is the problem, as you are finding. More and more things will pop into your head now. Things you did for him, times he made excuses not to spend etc. The anger and resentment will only grow.

I don't see that you have a choice but to confront him. You can't pretend you haven't seen it. Because the next time he makes a comment about being "skint" you'll be inwardly seething.

If everything else was good I'd give him one chance to talk. Tell him you saw the screen in passing (no need to mention snooping at his desk). See what he has to say for himself. But sadly I don't see it making a lot of difference. The more you tell us the more it looks like he has serious issues around money. He won't be able to change overnight, if at all, if he even wants to.

He doesn't want to spend his money with you or on you, OP. The 2 of you are incompatible in this regard. Added to which, the way he has misled you.

@FFSWherearemyglasses tighter than two coats of paint 😂

What is wrong with it is that he pouted and looked at me with big, sad eyes and said he felt awful that he was so broke that he could not afford to spend more than £2. I now know this to be a lie. He DOES have the money, he just chose not to spend more than £2 of it on me.

And before you say it, no I am not expecting a diamond ring but a regular priced present such as average-income people might give one another.

Plus he accepted a £75 coat from me in return. He did not squirm or say, "I cannot accept this, it's too much" and ask if it could be returned. He loved it and thanked me.

This is a strange one. The cheap clothes, the ribena, the £2 gift. This sounds like a lifestyle that he's always lived and I don't see that changing at all.

Have u had conversations about his childhood, what that was like? Maybe he grew up not spending much money. Is his mum the same?
I think u are going to have to have the chat with him at some point unless u are willing to live that life with him for the rest of your life. It's OK looking after the pennies but whipping out a ribena cause u dont want to put out a few pounds for a drink is a bit too tight.

NO he isn't. He hasn't lied about anything. He has a budget and he keeps to it.

We are all different. Just because you would spend your savings it doesnt' mean that other people do.

There was a pp who said that they did renovations which took years and would never spend savings on holidays etc. They kept a strict budget as he does.

We are all different. It does not make him a liar.

If the OP has asked him if he had any savings and he has said no, then he would be lying, although if the £1.5 million is for his pension then he wouldn't be lying as most people don't count pension savings like other savings (I certainly don't).

It's his money and if he wants to live a very frugal life that's entirely his choice. It's not acceptable to lie about it to a partner he loves for two years though. It would make me question everything. I really don't like liars and if people lie about one thing I always wonder what else the lie about. I am fairly direct, I would confront him about it and see what he says. But honestly after being lied to repeatedly it's unlikely I would be able to move past that and for me it would be over.

So he's happy to know all your business, but lies about his.

What a massive, miserly, let down he is OP.

There's no acceptable reason or excuse then. He has been deliberately taking advantage of your kindness, and choosing not to have a mutually reciprocal relationship. This is who he is.

You could have a “big talk” with him, tell him you saw the letter and open laptop and discuss that with him, and how you are feeling about his lies etc.
But in reality, he constantly lies, accepts generous gifts from you with pleasure but does not return the favour, cannot give you an end date for when the building work will finish (probably never) and his utter stinginess and knowing the price of everything suggests he will always live his life like this. I don’t think you will ever get to do “normally priced” activities with him because he simply does not want that. Even if he retires and says “great, I have enough money now”, it will still be ribena cartons in the cheap seats.

Having read all your posts OP I think I'd be ending the relationship.

He's hoarding financially to a ridiculous extent and you'll have a miserable time going forward if you continue. He isnt going to change and hoarding is one of the most intractable mental illnesses.

Tbh my husband complains about spending money on boring crap like repairing the roof or having to buy yet another pair of school shoes for DS. However, he is very happy to spend on fun stuff - I couldn't be with someone that was so tight it stopped them doing things.

That's the crux here OP - I don't think you are going to get the life you want out of this man. He can clearly afford to cut his purse loose a bit but chooses not to, that isn't going to change.

@ElleintheWoods

"If you don’t want to discuss your finances openly, just don’t discuss them, it doesn’t need to come up very much"

He brings up money pretty much every time I see him or speak on the phone, always about how he's skint and "oh god now I have a vet's bill" or a "dental bill" or "the car needs" a new this or that or an MOT and "I am going to have to somehow find X amount", and then he looks all sad and looks down at his shabby boots and furrows his brow and says, "Goodness knows where I am going to find that cash, I will have to cut back some more."

It's like he's trying to get money out of me with his non stop hard luck stories, and yet when I have offered to lend him money he has refused.

Another thing: he took me to a comedy night at a pub and I felt a bit embarrassed because he nursed half a pint of lager all evening. I bought my own drinks and when I offered to buy him a second drink he said, "no, no I can't take your money".

Another thing: when he set me up with stocks and shares and explained how the interface works and how to see the progress charts that show how shares have been doing and I asked how he knew all this (ie when he has no capital) he lied and said his grandpa taught him all about shares years ago. Granddad died before the internet was in people's homes but I didn't say anything as I didnt want to cause an argument. So he lied when he did not have to. He could easily have said that he knew how to use the site because he'd "got a few quid" in it himself strictly for a rainy day. He didnt have to tell me the amount!

This. It's none of your business. He hasn't asked you for anything and insists on sharing costs equally.

If you don't like being with someone who lives frugally, find someone else.

You also need to understand the difference between day-to-day cash flow, and assets.

As an example, I also am single and have nearly two million in my ISA, and also own two very small and modest houses, making my real estate worth about half a million total.

None of that is liquid. I can't touch the retirement monies until I, you know, RETIRE. I am not about to sell either of the houses.

I have a very good income but save a lot, give a lot to charity, am doing up the house I live in, invest a lot into my garden, and I help my sister who is unable to work due to cancer.

I buy clothing mostly from Vinted or charity shops, buy used books and household goods, run a small fuel-efficient car, and do my own decorating, DIY and gardening. I don't eat at restaurants often at all; it's not a good value for me. Most people would probably assess me as being poorer than I am. I couldn't care less.

On a month-to-month basis I don't have a lot of cash left over after all of the above. I don't talk about money with others but to myself might say "wow, I'm really skint this month; I'll have to buy that new set of tyres next month..." or "eh, too skint this month for new jeans/steak/car valeting/a new electric blanket."

People DO budget, you know. Not everyone lives hand-to-mouth or to the full extent of their income. Saying that one can't "afford" something doesn't mean that one couldn't scrape up the funds if it were absolutely necessary, but it's not a priority.

If dating a very frugal man is unappealing, I understand that. But it's a bit of gall to say he's "lied" to you. His budget is his business. If anyone dared to question how I allocate my resources, they'd be out on the doorstep in an instant.

Thanks for posting this link, I had never heard of it before but it really resonates with me.

The stupid thing is, if he would invest some of his capital on employing a labourer he could get the house finished faster and get back to earning £56k.

Even if he paid £28,000 to hired help, he would make that money back in a year from going back to full time work.

Oh that’s interesting. He might actually have a disorder of some kind but it’s not food or shopping it’s accounting for every penny. He could have got it from a parent, the ‘value of money’ might have been drummed into him his whole childhood making him almost fearful of spending.

Some people talk about money all the time as a sort of tic. It is irritating. If you don't like talking about it, ask him to stop. If you think he's trying to prise money out of you, say something to him.

His grandad could have taught him the principles of investing and financial markets before the internet, you know. Markets didn't just spring forth 30 years ago.

I don't see how him "nursing" a lager affects you in any way. Why on earth would you feel embarrassed about how much beer someone does or does not drink.

@AmIbeingUn forgive me if I’ve missed a previous answer - but is there any chance that the spreadsheet was showing his mother’s funds? Someone else? I’d just need to be totally sure (and a couple of seconds of looking really wasn’t enough to look at the detail) before blowing up your otherwise good relationship.

@BettyBardMacDonald

His current part time income is higher than my current income.

@AmIbeingUn Just too elaborate stories and too obsessed with everything to do with money. It sounds like you’ve made up your mind already about how you feel about it.

If your lifestyle isn’t hyper focused on saving… he may just not be a good fit for you.

Personally for me, I like to go out, enjoy life, have fun - though I’m not a big spender. I can’t be with someone that thinks if to spend £4 or £5 on a drink unless they are genuinely very limited financially. Emphasis on ‘genuinely’.