He isn't skint.

[AmIbeingUn]

NC for this as personal/outing. Am wondering AIBU? Or WWYD?

Began seeing a local man met on OLD. We matched so perfectly: same age, local, some mutual acquaintances, similar hobbies, outlook, politics, music taste, humour etc. Found him incredibly sexually and emotionally attractive and vice versa.

We became very close and cosy very quickly: daily contact, usually in person, in and out of each others' houses for coffee and a chat, sleeping over at each others houses often, meeting each other's friends and family. Talked loads, for hours, about a wide range of subjects and very frankly. Within weeks we were so close and comfortable with one another it felt like we'd been together for ages.

The only thing that wasn't perfect was that he had no spare spending money. He had gone part time at work to give him the time to renovate his house, singlehandedly, and those renovations also ate up all the money he had left over after paying mortgage and bills. He warned me that, until the house was finished and he returned to full time working, he could not afford to spend much on going out, going away, buying me gifts, unless it was cheap and we split the costs. I am not materialistic so I did not care and to be honest I am a homely person who is more than happy to have dates at each other's houses, cooking each other a meal or watching a film. For Xmas he saw something in a charity shop window which he knew I would love and he even admitted it had cost him only £2 and said he felt guilty and mean and sorry and hoped I would tolerate his being skint until he got back to work and could treat me properly and take me to a swanky restaurant now and again.

Whilst chatting and being in his home whilst things were happening in his daily life he would mention now and again that he was down to his last few pounds, or that the purchase of some essential building materials or an emergency dental problem or vet bill had wiped his bank account. I am not wealthy but I do have a couple of hundred pounds left over every month which I usually just put into a savings account. He never once asked me for money and in fact when I offered to lend him money once or twice he absolutely refused. When I offered to treat him to a fancy meal out or a theatre ticket he also refused, saying that unless he could pay at least his own share, he would not go. I saw these refusals as a confirmation of his honesty and integrity.

One day I was at his house reading the paper after breakfast and he was opposite me on his laptop. As he went to answer the front door I took the dirty plates to the sink and as I turned round to walk back to the table I could not help myself, my eyes were drawn to the screen which had some kind of spreadsheet of figures. I was absolutely staggered to see that he had stocks and shares and an ISA totalling £1.5m. When he came back into the room I just pretended I had not seen anything because I knew I should not have been snooping but I went home and was literally in shock and also really angry that he had been lying to me the whole time.

Next time I stayed at his I deliberately snooped when he was in the shower, and read an open letter about the sale of a flat he owned (which he had never mentioned to me). £250,000 from the sale had been deposited into my boyfriend's bank account about a week before, and yet that very day he had been saying how broke he was.

Am I in the wrong for snooping or is he in the wrong for telling me for a whole year the lie that he is struggling financially from month to month?

What would you do? Confront him and admit you snooped? End it? Tell yourself his finances are none of your business?

I'd be ending it - for both the lies, and the fact that he's incredibly stingy. Both, to me, are massive red flags.

Even in the beginning, if he was worried about the OP being a 'golddigger', he didn't have to lie and say he was skint - and it is a lie. He could have said 'I'm okay' if he didn't want to go into detail.

Spending just £2 on her Christmas present, choosing the worst seats behind a column, the ribena during the interval...I'd be embarrassed to be with someone like that, knowing that there was no good reason behind it. Has anyone ever told him that he can't take the money with him? I'm the same age as him, and in the last year 3 people close to me have died, all 3 of them suddenly, and it's made me realise more than ever that life is for living. He can still make sure he is comfortable for when he retires and still enjoy life in the here and now.

I also think he's a future faker. Good times are coming, 'tomorrow' - but tomorrow never arrives. I think his stinginess is now too deeply ingrained.

I take my own water for the interval. My nearest one is a big city one a day charges £6.50 for a bottle of water.

What makes it a better experience drinking the same water with a £5.50 piece difference?

ISAs only started in 1999 and the max you could put in was £7k. It was only a few years ago that £20k became the max (spread across ISAs, Stocks&shares ISAs, and lifetime ISAs), so I don't know if it is even possible to have £1.5 mil in an ISA. And I'm surprised a financially savvy man would even keep it all in one ISA because only £85k (I think?) is safe per bank. If he has a lifetime ISA he can't touch it until he is 60. Stocks n shares aren't guaranteed money until they are sold.

Numbers on a page isn't the same as having money in the bank. He told you he doesn't have spare money. That is not the same as saying he doesn't have money.

I'd start a conversation about trust and how much you abhor lying, ask how he would react if he found out you'd been lying to him all through your relationship. Really make him squirm before telling him you know about his finances. You don't even have to tell him how you know.
I must admit when you said about the theatre ticket and him whipping out a carton of juice my stomach turned. Broke or not that's awful, mean behaviour.

OP, does he actually know that you own a million quid house, have savings and a good income? And presumably also good pension arrangements?

My worry would be that his love of money is so great that he is eyeing up yours on top of his own stash.

Maybe he is the playing the long game here in some way, or is simply unhinged in the love-of-money department. I can see why you feel angry that he has been dishonest - it's unsettling behaviour.

The OP said stocks and shares and an ISA totalling £1.5m.

(My underlining.)

I must admit I had to read it twice, to check.

ME: I have the same sort of accounts as him and the money is accessible in 3 days. Money from his ISA can be withdrawn at any time as he is over 55.

OP, he can access his ISA at any age. He can access his pension at any time after 55.

Therefore, he has full access to both his ISA as of now and theoretically his pension, being a total of 1.75 million currently.

No, he is not skint. He does not need to mention the 1.75 million because he does not fully trust you now (fair enough) but he does not need to lie either.

Also, what a miserable life to spend with a miser. It sounds like a sickness. Will he ever fully trust you to reveal his financial situation? I am not sure.

Don't accept crumbs from the table. You deserve more.

Well, some people are spenders and some are savers.

He is a saver and probably worries too much about his future, like many older people do.

The OP has to decide if she can live with someone who would rather save than spend.

But to call him a liar is completely wrong. He just has a different way of spending and saving money from her.

Seeing something on a laptop accidently fair enough. Snooping into personal financial documents- no that is wrong.

I do think it's a bit fishy he left his laptop open almost like he wanted you to see it - it could be fake or a test.

Yes, there are stocks and shares ISAs that a lot of people invest in for long-term growth alongside personal ISAs an lifetime ISAs. And if it isn't a stocks & shares ISA, he will have to pay tax on the profit when he sells them. Either way, it isn't money sitting in his bank.

@AmIbeingUn, Here's an article on Financial Hoarding Disorder.
https://www.chase.co.uk/gb/en/hub/money-hoarders/

It does look bad and I feel for you.

However you have enjoyed being with this man and he with you; he has not cost you money, is not a scrounger

I remember some years ago seeing a programme in which a youngish guy was looking to find a nice person with whom to settle down. He was an Essex man, not brash, very pleasant and nice looking, but extremely well off and so was his family. He wanted to play that down.

His reasons were that so often girls had dated him just because he was rich and he wanted to find someone who had genuine feelings towards him, not just because he was 'money-bags'. He wasn't mean but had had disappointments.

Think on that for a bit. Rich people are just as vulnerable as poor ones in many ways. They can be hurt and taken for a ride. Nobody wants that.

If you are happy with things the way they are, there's no reason for you to stop seeing him. However, as things progress, if he's a decent chap he will tell you the truth. If and when he does, don't tell him you already know.

Good luck. You really do sound very nice indeed.

Its not the money but the miserlinesses.

Don't let posters confuse the issue.

He lied to you about his finances in order not to have what he feared would be a difficult conversation about life choices around socializing and dating. He didn’t want to lose you as a companion but he didn’t want to pay the costs of being hospitable and generous. He quickly arranged to move from the dating phase where men and women often put themselves out to display their best side as potential partners and mates straight to cosy/cheap companionship at home *because he is stingy preferentially. He didn’t want to defend this style to you ss a choice—or as a permanent decision—so he lied and pretended he would choose otherwise in the future. It was a lie so that ypu would accept project stinge without argument. Thats all.

I think snooping was wrong and the convo should have been after the accidental laptop peek not gone into full snooping.

I do think he’s misled you. I used to be part of an online community very focused on early retirement and saving a large portion of income. He sounds happy, although you like a bit more luxury you are also happy with him. It sounds like he was dishonest, maybe by mistake. To him, only the 28k/year counts until some imaginary time in his head when he quits and draws 28k from retirement. So he should have said things like it’s not in my budget instead of I can’t afford.

you love each other. Time to talk.

She accidentally saw something, then instead of being a chump, verified it. Sounds eminently sensible to me!

I hope you’re not a ‘see no evil’ monkey in real life; it won’t serve you well.

He’s either testing you, about to do a tinder swindler on you or just can’t help the stinginess - in which case I don’t think you’re ever getting meals out and holidays even when the house is finished. I’d spend the next couple of months trying to figure out which one is true. You could be having a lovely time in your 50s but instead you’re sitting behind a pillar in the theatre

Call his bluff.

See how long he is prepared to lie to you and how he continues to treat you.

Time will soon tell - when you can't stomach it anymore. Now that you are aware of the truth, you'll soon know when you actually have had enough of the deceit.

I'd say it's best you found out what you are dealing with sooner than later.

Oh my!

516 replies! I only expected to get 10 to 20. It will take me the rest of the day to read them all, which I will because I want the advice and thoughts, but will only reply if there is a direct question.

Many thanks everyone for your time and trouble. x

Male bovine excrement!

Where that cam from, I haven't a clue but it needs to be put back so it can be shoveled up with the rest of the MBE.🐄💩 FFS!🙄

@LBFseBrom I get what you are saying but this man is forcing OP to live like she is also skint. That is utterly joyless and sounds like a life with him is not worth bothering with. He could potentially suffer from a financial hoarding disorder which @Garlicbest linked to (I am not diagnosing) because it is just so bizarre.

The lying is also problematic. I am not short of a few bob myself and live relatively frugally so it is not possible to tell superficially. I deal with this by simply not discussing money with others. I would never say I am skint. It is so disrespectful and tone deaf to people who might be skint or just getting by.

She didn’t say £2.5m in an ISA, but it’s certainly possible to have a million.

The FSCS is not the same with investments as a bank. You own a share, the asset is yours, it matters not that you have more than £85k

Of course an ISA and investments are liquid assets - liquidity is part of the appeal.

A millionaire constantly claiming that he is skint IS a LIAR

Thank you for that. I've never heard of money hoarding before. He complains sometimes that his mother is a hoarder. She has filled her four empty bedrooms with papers and magazines collected over decades which she will "get around to reading" when she isn't so busy with this and that. As an only child he knows it will all be down to him one day to get rid of it all.

Now I wonder if hoarding might be hereditary.

Reading the article also reminds me that he knows exactly how much everything costs. Like, a shower costs him 85p, running the dishwasher, £1.15, the washing machine, £1.30 so he does laundry at night when the electric is cheaper. I've never met anyone before who knew all these figures and was impressed but now I see it in a different light: unnecessary and extreme miserliness.

He sounds commendably sensible, both in matters of finance and of the heart. You deliberately snooping through his finances would be an immediate dealbreaker for me. It's an invasion of privacy, a betrayal of trust, and none of your business. Then to post extensive identifiable details online as though it is you who have been wronged! It is incredibly exposing.

You can only be in a relationship with the person who is right in front of you at the time. If you didn't like that he wasn't spending money, you should have said so, and ended it. You told yourself that something was okay for you when it clearly was not.

You can only be in a relationship with as much of someone as they choose to share with you. If you discover something else about them, via indirect means, then you have a dilemma. You can hold your own counsel until they choose to open up that part of themselves to you (if they ever do). Or, you can ask them about it directly (which risks forcing something which was not happening organically). Or, you can end the relationship (due to the discrepancy between what you previously thought and the new information).

Snooping for more information, publishing online, concocting stories in your head, and still not asking him about it, it's a parade of bright red flags.

Tl;dr: You and he are not compatible. Find someone who spends money freely (and is as unscrupulous as you are).

I understand your anger and frustration, I would not be happy about being lied to as it would definitely make me wonder what else they had lied about. I would also have to be open with him about what I had seen and give him the opportunity to explain. Also, the getting out a carton of Ribena would put me off even if he was a bit skint. Some people are just odd like this when it comes to money. I have a very well off friend who goes to extreme lengths to not spend money. I've known her for years and she actively enjoys getting a bargain and being frugal. She's always the one that goes through a bill at the restaurant with a fine tooth comb and never splits the bill unless she's spent more than others. She is often last to the bar and will try to.dodge a round if she can. I've never understood it.