Not sure how to manage relationship with emotionally abusive ex

[Silverbluebell]

I separated from my exdh of 20 years + a few months back. We have 3 teenagers and share custody.

I'm just struggling with my relationship with him and feel like it's an underlying stress for me.

Basically, over the course of our relationship, he would gaslight me, refuse to talk to me for days, storm off by himself for no reason if we were out with the dc, drive off in the car for hours not telling me where he was going, roll his eyes behind my back, shout at me, punch walls or furniture. Just before we separated, we were in the kitchen, I said something completely innocent to him and he turned around with a knife in his hand, shaking with anger and baring his teeth.

He also refused to do any housework, childcare, DIY etc for our whole relationship.

In between all that he was always nice to the dc, always happy to go to the park with them or listen to music/watch TV with them. He and I would often have enjoyable times going out for a coffee, film, having a meal. We could always have a good conversation. It all sounds so strange I know that there were good bits among the awful bits.

It was so confusing for so long, as I just couldn't get my head around his "jekyll and hyde" behaviours. I'm still processing it all really. Most of my family and friends don't know the whole story, I kept it hidden for ages and I'm just not sure why. I don't think I could believe it myself and I kept questioning of I was making a big deal of it. I also excused it as I put it down to his mental health problems.

Currently, the set up is that he has the dc every other weekend and half the school holidays. During the week, I work late a couple of days and he comes round to mine to cook dinner for the dc (he isn't working at the moment, that's another story). He also uses my washing machine as he doesn't have one at the place he is renting. I go round to his once a week with the dc for a "family meal". We also are all together, either at mine or his, for special occasions eg birthdays, Christmas etc.

So basically we are trying to keep it amicable for the dc. But what has got me thinking was talking to a friend of mine recently about everything. He was incredulous that after the way my ex had been emotionally abusive to me for years, with zero apology, that I was being amicable with him. He said that if someone was like that with him, there is no way he'd let them in his house or go round to theirs for dinner etc.

It got me thinking - I know I have struggled with asserting myself and I feel my self esteem got lower and lower over the course of my relationship. I don't know if it is showing low self esteem to still be kind of "friends" with someone who essentially abused me. And to be honest I don't feel comfortable with how it is but I don't know how else it can be. My ex does not really show me the emotional abusive behaviours any more, he did still at the beginning of our separation, but hadn't done for a while as I made it clear I wouldn't put up with it any more.

I know part of this is probably me - since my separation I have felt so emotionally exhausted that I haven't really been meeting up with friends as much. So when I see my ex now, I do sometimes enjoy chatting to him, simply because it's nice sometimes to have someone who you know well that you can chat to. And I have been trying to still have a "family unit" for the dc. But maybe it's a bit of a pretence.

Just wondered if anyone has any thoughts on this situation? Thanks.

He doesn't show his abusive behaviours because he is on his best behaviour, as soon as you say no or upset him he will do it again. Why would he be showing anger - he gets all the best bits of having a family without any of the hard graft of actually parenting a lot of the time.

You need to go to therapy to process the abuse and start to separate your life. Go out with your friends and start to build a life away from him.

It is still so raw right now and I understand you wanting things to be amicable for DC but this isn't you asserting boundaries so he isn't being abusive. It's him having his cake and eating it too and walking all over you.

I would put more boundaries into place so that you are able to grow post the separation. We are often emotionally attached to abusers. So I would do less things as “a family unit” while still being cordial with your ex. This will help the kids to adjust as well.

I've been there (still am to some extent as I work for my ex, plus two teenagers.)

Get some counselling pronto if you're not already talking to someone. We have been SO conditioned to keep them happy that we can keep putting up with too much post-split to keep the mood calm. They can behave better once split up, but you know who he is underneath and you know he can control who he shows that to. Don't trust anything he says - manipulation will continue, it'll just look different.

Be aware that he will use your apparent cordiality to boost his claim to all and sundry that he was never abusive/you left for no reason and maybe you're regretting it/whatever. You will get plenty of people doubting your version of events and will find out who your friends really are.

Give him as close to zero information on your life beyond the dcs as you can.

Work on broadening your new social life and keep very clear boundaries. He's a visitor only and he's lucky to be that. Don't let him feel he's getting his feet under the table, or that's going to be used against you somehow in future.

Grey rock is your friend. Eventually other people will see who he really is but until that happens, keep your emotional distance. And keep reminding yourself who you left. He's still the same, just hiding it better. X

It's probably time for you to start to rebuild your life. I'm guessing that you do all the work and preparation for events like birthdays and Christmas? You need to pull back, the family isn't a unit anymore and you both need to recognise this. He should also stop using your house as a launderette. What do you think his response would be if you set more boundaries? Found a new partner? Is he still in control but remotely?

OMG op, you've just described my life. I'm still trying to work it all out. Really similar setup here. We also have the Jekyll and Hyde relationship. It's hard because as a single parent maintaining friendships and relationships can be super tough due to lack of time or babysitting options. At the moment I am trying to build up my network which feels impossible. But having better options than hanging out with my ex will hopefully mean we can separate out a bit.

The other thing is try to keep all meetings between him and kids out of your house.

We also have MH issues this way. I'm still trying to get around it! I notice that he switches behaviour modes when he wants to hang out with us, but when I dare to raise the bad behaviour he lashes out and becomes really nasty.

Then again I can't do lone parenting all on my own. I go crazy in solitude as well.

I think it's about slowly enforcing boundaries, inch by inch (tough I know as narcissists / abusers like nothing better than to trash your boundaries). Keep a diary of his behaviour and read it often to remind yourself how he acts when you're in a weak moment.

If you'd like to keep in touch via PM for mutual support let me know. It might be good for us both to have someone in a similar situation to support each other :)

PS my ex also uses my bloody washing machine!

You might need to pick your battles slowly and carefully here. Your ex has a limitless amount of mental energy that he can decide to devote to conflict. He will feel empowered by the conflict, you will feel exhausted. Celebrate your freedom, expand your social life and work with a counsellor. As your kids get older he will have less and less avenues to make your life difficult and you can move on without fearing a backlash

He hasn’t changed. As pp said, he’s having his cake and eating it.

You’re not comfortable for a reason. You can’t be friends with an abuser. He’s still an abuser. How do you know he won’t hold knife to you and bear his teeth again during your family dinner in front of the children if you say something he doesn’t like? You don’t. And that’s why you’re putting yourself and the children in a potentially dangerous situation.

You can parallel parent with an abuser but this kind of family unit you’re trying to have isn’t possible because there will always be a power imbalance. This kind of set up is only viable if both parents are safe, amicable and NOT abusers. You say that he’s behaving but the reality is, you are still walking on eggshells and trying to please, accommodate and placate him because you fear what will happen if you don’t. That’s unhealthy for you and for the children. You should be demonstrating healthy boundaries to your children.

The reason you can sometimes enjoy his company is because abusers are never awful all the time. They will be horrible and then they will be wonderful. It’s called the cycle of abuse. They do it to hoover their victims back in when they feel them start to move away.

My advice would be to send him a message stating that you are not comfortable with the current set up and henceforth you won’t be having any more family dinners. You also do not want him in your house and so he isn’t allowed in. He can’t use your washing machine either. It’s not your problem that he doesn’t have a washing machine. He’s a grown adult. He can figure it out by either buying one or finding a laundrette he can use. Or he can hand wash his stuff. He has multiple options but using your machine isn’t one of them.

Have the locks changed on your property before you do this. Install a ring doorbell. Contact your local police and tell them you have left your husband and you are concerned about him becoming violent, therefore you would like them to put a tag on your address in case he does. That way they will attend quickly if you call them.

Don’t give the children new keys to the house because he will potentially copy them.

Tell him you will only communicate with him through text or email and only about child contact. This way you will have a record of everything should he become abusive.

I know this will seem terrifying to you but you cannot be friends with an abuser who held a knife up to you a growled at you. He’s not safe and you are in danger. You need to limit all contact with him to be bare minimum. Learn the grey rock method and apply it. This means he will be less likely to hoover you back in.

https://toolbox.dianemetcalf.com/greyrock/

And read this book to start to understand and recognise abuse and who your ex is. He won’t change. He will escalate whether you stay with him or not. Imagine how mental he will go when you start going out with friends or heaven forbid meet someone else. You need to protect yourself and show your children that his behaviour is unacceptable. Otherwise they will grow up to have horrible abusive relationships or become abusers themselves.

https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

You’ve done incredibly well so far to start breaking free from this man. You’re desire to remain amicable for the sake of the children, whilst admirable is unrealistic and inadvisable. Prepare yourself for this final stretch and speak to women’s aid for support if you need help to make an exit plan. Also, don’t be ashamed to tell the people around you. You have done nothing wrong and you need all the support you can get. Inform your employer that you’re splitting with your husband due to domestic abuse. Find out what their policy is on supporting employees experiencing domestic abuse. And when you’ve put your boundaries firmly in place, speak to the children about why you are taking a step back in an age appropriate way. They may feel confused or angry. They may also be relieved because no doubt they will be able to sense the tension at these family dinners. It might be a good idea to inform the school about what’s been happening and where things are so that they can support the children as they navigate these new living arrangements and contact with their Dad.

You're doing the right thing. You do not deserve to be abused. You are allowed to put your boundaries in place. Your boundaries are absolutely reasonable and sensible. You are allowed to be safe. You are allowed to be free.

@Icedlatteofdreams That's all very true, yes he is having the best bits of the family without doing any hard graft. He's not working and spends his days relaxing, doing his hobbies etc. When the dc are there he goes out to cafes with them, watches films etc. It's basically like he's treating them like his mates that he can hang out with.

I'm the one who still deals with all the school stuff, their social activities, washing, emotional support etc.

"this isn't you asserting boundaries so he isn't being abusive. It's him having his cake and eating it too and walking all over you."

That really resonated with me.

@EmeraldDreams73 "Be aware that he will use your apparent cordiality to boost his claim to all and sundry that he was never abusive/you left for no reason and maybe you're regretting it/whatever. You will get plenty of people doubting your version of events and will find out who your friends really are."

That's very true. I think his family especially don't realise what he's like with me, as he doesn't show that side to anyone else.

The image he presents to other people is that he's a kind, gentle man, and ironically he has always given the narrative that he is the one that people take advantage of.

I continued to do stuff with my ex and DC after we split. Partly because I sometimes enjoyed his company, it was nice for DC. But also because i was scared of him and parenting DC by myself. I was still walking on eggshells though and in the end i stopped seeing him and now only communicate very occasionally and by text. I have zero expectations of him, i don't rely on him for anything - which is crap and sad for DC but has also been very freeing. I no longer care what he thinks of me. I still do my best to facilitate the relationship with him and dc.

@Tel12 yes I do think he is still in control but remotely. I still feel stifled by him.

I have stayed in the family house with the dc. He was very angry about that, I did suggest that we sold the family house and both moved to different properties, but for some reason he didn't want to sell the house, I think it was for financial reasons. So he reluctantly agreed to move out.

I'm glad that we can give the dc continuity in their home but to be honest it's another stress for me. The house was a renovation project, but exDH refused to move on with it, so it's half finished. Damp in some rooms, needs a new bathroom, carpets etc. In addition my ex was a massive hoarder, and there are piles of his junk in the garage and shed. I've asked him so many times to move his stuff, and he comes over, takes a couple of items away in a plastic bag, then goes again. When I bring it up and say that I really want to clear the rooms, he just gets angry and says that he's stressed and exhausted and I'm putting him under pressure. So I back down.

This is what it was like in our relationship, I couldn't move on with anything as he seemed to passively control our whole life by refusing to do anything.

@dogcatbird I really relate to everything you've written too!

"It's hard because as a single parent maintaining friendships and relationships can be super tough due to lack of time or babysitting options"
That's hit the nail on the head. Sometimes I get back from a stressful day at work, craving some adult, friendly conversation, and if he's there, having cooked dinner for the dc, it's the easy option to start chatting with him. As I say, we can have the occasional nice chat. But I think I'm realising that part of me feels really compromised by this, as in the back of my mind I'm still reeling over how he treated me, and also feeling really angry with him that he's left me to deal with all his piles of crap in the house, and all the renovations!

I totally get what you mean about keeping the meetings with him and the dc out of the house. It's so hard as honestly a part of this is also thinking about the dc, and thinking that it's easier if they can come home after school and he can make them dinner here, rather than them having to go round to his, or waiting for me to come back home from work and then have more of a simple, quick dinner.

But to be honest I really don't feel comfortable with him being in my house. Just thinking about it now makes me feel tense. So I think I just need to listen to that feeling and deal with any consequences.

Yes, will pm you, thank you! x

@TipsyJoker thank you so much for your post and all the information. I really appreciate it.

This is all really helping to clarify in my mind that it was emotional abuse that I experienced. I have minimised and denied it for so long

You're right that there will always be a power imbalance trying to have any kind of family unit with an abuser. I am still definitely aware of how he is, and if I think about it, when we see each other now, I am still "playing small", trying to placate him etc, so that he doesn't get angry. It's deeply ingrained behaviour on my part.

I am going to tell him that I don't want any more family dinners and that he needs to get a washing machine. It's going to be a step by step process of me putting in more boundaries but I know it has to happen as I still feel paralysed and controlled by him, even though we're not living together.

I think I am still trying to be amicable as it gives me a kind of safety net and so I don't feel totally alone as a parent. We still have joint finances, again that's a safety net, but I know I need to separate them at some point. The other night our DD woke in the night with really bad stomach pains - she was fine in the end, but it was definitely reassuring for me that I could call my ex and talk it through.

So part of it is me needing to believe that I can do this on my own and have the strength to parent and support my dc separately from him. Ironically I used to be confident and assertive, I travelled all over the world by myself, but the years of living with him have knocked my confidence and ground me down hugely.

Thank you so much for the links, I will look at them and also what Women's aid can offer.

@Yellowroom I really relate, I too feel that it's sad and crap for the dc if we can't ever do anything together as a family, but really it seems that there's no other option but to totally break away from an abuser. I'm glad it feels very freeing for you now, I hope to be in that position too one day.

Also thanks to everyone for the suggestions of counselling - I have actually just started counselling with a therapist who seems really good. We've only had one session so far, and maybe this is also why I'm now feeling able to address things whereas I just couldn't before. Hopefully the counselling will help to clarify things even more.

One step at a time lovely, just do one thing that makes you feel like you're taking back control, get used to that, and then add in another one when you feel ready.

I have been in a very similar situation and had to accept that I was still being controlled by my XH albeit from a distance; and it's always me who has to stand up to him and make changes because it suits him the way things are...or it did, because gradually I am separating our lives and it feels so much better. I still get that eggshell feeling but I am aware that's what it is, rather than it being the "normal" way of being with him...

I think if you can start re-claiming your house by getting rid of his stuff that will help too - I had a HUGE clear-out, I got shot of anything that was anything about him that I could do without, and that felt so much better. Don't wait for him to pack stuff up, tell him it's going to the dump if it's not gone by X date, and then either take it yourself or get someone else to clear it if you can afford to do that. Afterwards, you, and your house, will feel so free, I promise!

Apply to the court for an occupation order so that you and the children can legally remain in the family home because atm he could just say he’s moving back in and you wouldn’t be able to stop him. Tell him you either put the house up for sale or he buys you out. He won’t be able to do that if he’s not working as id assume he doesn’t have the capital. So, the house goes up for sale. You need to break free because being tied to this house, with all his crap in it, not to mention the fact it’s half finished and riddled with damp, etc is bad for your mental and physical health and that of the children.

“he has always given the narrative that he is the one that people take advantage of.”

This is called DARVO. Google it.

She needs to be careful of dumping his stuff because she could be prosecuted for that. Technically the stuff is still in his house as the property is jointly owned. Technically, he could move back in whenever he wants and the op wouldn’t be able to stop him. She has to tread carefully with this. I would suggest that she gathers up all his stuff and puts it all out in the garage. That way it’s still on the property in an appropriate place and secure but it’s not all over the house. It’s also means if he starts claiming he needs to get something that he doesn’t have to enter the home to retrieve it.

PM me any time. I have plenty of experience with this stuff and I completely understand where you’re at. You’re doing great.

Regarding his stuff, having been through this myself, the only way you can deal with this is to pack it up, hire a van, tell him when the van will be delivering it and put it on his doorstep. It's not fair of him to expect you to keep his crap and it's another way of controlling you.

Will defo PM you, would be good to chat to each other as our situations sound so similar!

by the way @TipsyJoker one thing I have realised is my ex is a narcissist as well as an abuser. He reacts incredibly poorly to any perceived criticism or request. The only way I have found I am able to get through to him is via very polite instructional text messages, possibly interwoven with some compliments. All very annoying but weirdly he responds to this way better than having a go at him.

Also ref the stuff, you can say "would you prefer me to drop your stuff on Tuesday or Saturday." Give him a choice, but no option to back out.

He's not showing any signs of being abusive because he's getting to pop over, still have family dinners, see the kids, use your facilities and not have to parent much! He's having his cake and eating it! All is lovely for him but as soon as you make any changes to his comfortable way of life, you'll see the abusive side again. I absolutely agree with the counselling, it will help you unpick everything, so that you can make the changes you need too. Having 'family dinners' gives a false impression. You are no longer a family unit, and you need to forge your own life away from your husband. I bet if you met someone else, which to you seems unlikely at the moment, but once you've healed emotionally, you will - his demeanor will change dramatically.

Yes, dealing with narcs is very difficult. It must be exceptionally challenging for you to manage. Have you read this book?

The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist by Debbie-Mirza

It might be worth a read for you.

I realise when there are children involved it complicates things massively but the best contact to have with a narc is no contact. I’m sure you already know about the grey rock method too. I would be employing this with your ex. If he kicks off, report him. The longer you placate them, the longer they persist. The idea is to cut off their supply. It’s great you’re sharing your lived experience and connecting with others who are going through similar challenges.