Oh if only I wasn't such a high maintenance, moody bint...

[green]

OK. Opinions on how I should have handled this better please, am desperately frustrated and all in a tizzy.

Dh is an appaling time keeper. Dh and I have been having a rough time. I am feeling resentful and irritable.

Tonight...
I started a new job today (first full time job since 1st ds born 8 years ago). We have childcare from the home. My hours are 8.30am to 4.30pm. Dh runs his own business. When I spoke to him today he said he would leave the office at 6 and be home by 6.30 (actually only takes 15 mins to get home at that time of night). When I called his office at 6.30 he was still there.

I knew he would be. He is always late. He never informs me when he is going to be late. If he had told me he'd be home at 9pm it would have been ok - what gets me is the fact that he tells me things he has no real intention of following through and yet I fall for it every time.

I was a moody bint when he got home and tried to explain how frustrating I find it. He told me I was being completely unreasonable, why does it matter, he hadn't noticed what the time was, I am mean etc etc etc

He won't come down for dinner (that I have cooked) and is now ignoring me.

Please advise. I'm so fricking confused. Obviously the problem is deeper than this, but that aside, how can I deal with these situations better. We can't sort out the big shit till we deal with the little shit IYKWIM?

Please be harsh with me if you feel it is necessary. Thanks.

I don't know if you know the show 'The Royle Family', but there is one (very rare) moving moment, where the dad gives advice to the new son-in-law. It is basically this: always say you'll be half an hour later than you will be, for the sake of marital harmony.

I have got into the habit of asking DH 'is that a Jim Royle estimate?' when he tells me when he'll be home, because he AUTOMATICALLY underestimates. I would MUCH rather he said later, then arrived sooner, than the reverse and he is starting, finally, to understand this.

All that to say that I know EXACTLY what you are talking about and that you DO need to sort it out. Explain to your DP that even if he doesn't understand why it's important, it really, really is and he should respect your feelings about this.

Go upstairs, tell him you were simply looking forward to him coming home so you could tell him all about your day. Then when he wasn't home when he said he would be, not only were you worried, but dissapointed as it often happens. Give him a big hug and apologize for being a moody bitch and tell him to get a bloody alarm clock and to set it for when he is supposed to leave the office.

Thanks both of you for your comments. May mention that Royle family in a lighter moment. But for now, have just tried to speak to him and he told me he doesn't want to talk to me.
What gets me is that he is playing the hard done by martyr being abused by my hideous grumpy ways - yet has taken no responsibility whatsoever for his part in this. Without acknowledgement from him I get even narkier and feel more despairing about the fact that he just doesn't bloody get it! Again, I reiterate I know this is about more than being late, it is symptomatic of EVERYTHING!

Tell him to grow up, he's the one who let YOU down. If it was just the 2 of you that would be fine but he has a responsibility to be where he says he'll be when he says he'll be there no you have kids and you're both working

My dh is just like this.
Always late but can't see a problem with it.

This is obviously just the tip of the iceberg tho. Do you feel you want him to apologise to you?

Despite this is he a good husband/father?

I have moments with mine where I get so irate about such small things but when I look at the bigger picture he is actually a lovely person and I should NOT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF & I REPEAT!!!

Sometimes it helps to step back from the situation or compare yourself to someone worse off to make it feel better?

That's what I do anyway. HTH

He is a fantastic father but we have lots and lots of issues as a couple. I had a thread a few months back - something about a reality check in the title.

I would like him to say sorry, but that doesn't feel such a big deal. I would just like him to acknowledge how his actions impact me and acknowledge that it is not unimportant to me. I feel its a bit about respect - I would always have the respect to let him know if I was going to be late. Plus then to turn it round and say I'm being 'mean' to raise my frustration. I'm not allowed to 'complain' which makes me feel that my feelings don't matter to him, he just wants a quiet life. Grrrr.

I know what you mean Waytmi and at times I can do it, but not tonight!

I wish I had the strength/conviction you seem to Pheebe. In a way that is part of the problem - he sees life in black and white, but to me its all grey.

I can't always do either!!

was just trying to help...

Men eh?!

Mine was driving me crazy just a few weeks ago and had me crying my eyes out at the drs

He was waiting for an op and is now off work so I think he was apprehensive (about the op, being off work for 6 weeks and how we'd get on together at home)

It's been fine!!

If you feel resentment and irritable too then maybe it's best to let things calm down. Maybe you've been feeling apprehensive about going back to work?

Good luck. I'm sure you'll sort things out soon x

{{{green}}} sorry if I seemed harsh, it just seems to me that you need to decide what's acceptable, communicate that clearly to your DH and stick by it. all very easy for me to say i know. the whole not talking to you thing seems very immature of him to me and may be a reflection of deeper issues he has. perhaps some outside help to improve your communcation skills a a couple?

Hi green, I can completely sympathise with you. Have been with DP for over 5 years and we have 6 month old DD. He has a very stressful job which means he works very long hours but he has always been bad with time management and picking up the phone which had always been a problem.

A lot of the time I can pre-empt it by telling him I need him somewhere half an hour earlier than I do but he can never call me to say he's going to be working late and a few times recently has gone out after work without letting me know. It's not unusual for him to come home at 10.00 or 11.00. He very rarely helps put DD to bed and usually has a lie in at the weekends while I am up giving her her breakfast. I have tried explaining how it impacts on me as I am doing about 90% of the childcare but he just says "it's my job" and "you're not going to be happy until I've lost my job". Suffice to say it's causing a few problems at the minute.

Not harsh at all Pheebe! I wish wish wish I could be clearer about what is and isn't acceptable to me and express it clearly too! As soon as he starts defending himself I loose my conviction and get all muddled.

Outside help - we had 4 years on and off of outside help until a few months ago he refused to go anymore. He is of the 'ignore the problem till it goes away' school of thought. I however still go to therapy alone weekly and feel its probably the most productive hour of my week.

Lucy10 - its so fucking hard isn't it. I can see how manipulative it is when you say it - but yet, can't seem to feel so clearly about my own situation. Again, the black & white/ grey thang.

Its not the actual lateness - its the lack of information and the misinformation that gets me.

But I wish I could deal with it more constructively. I just feel too worn down to have the same discussion again and again when i feel that my concerns are always negated.

hi green - you've got all my sympathies for a number of reasons. for starters, you began a new job today - big day, big stress - so he should be showing some consideration and support.

it's stressful when they are late home. but, he will expect you to get upset as then he doesn't need to be responsible for that - he can say that you are the bad one.

you need to keep your cool, hard as it is as then he can't play the martyr! then you can start to get at the real issues. if you get upset, go and scream in a pillow or share on mumsnet.

well done on your first day back

I know exactly what you mean about getting confused and muddled! I try my best to have everything thought through before I say it but as soon as I start he jumps on the defensive, no matter how calm I am, and it all goes out the window. But apparently it's me who sees everything in black and white and am the stubborn one I suggested counselling the other day but got the answer I expected. Am considering going by myself to be honest. How long have you been going for? Do you find it helpful?

Well done on going back to work!

Does anyone think I should get over myself and give dh a break? ie - I shouldn't be so stressed about what time he gets home and so what if he didn't call - he's running his own business? I genuinely cannot work out if I'm asking too much. He's not talking to me and I'm going to bed. How does he manage to truly feel like the hard done by party??

I have been going to therapy on and off for 8 years I'm a little embarrassed to admit (had serious PND with ds1 and have a rather messy childhood to work through). Had 3 years off, but recently started again. Plus dh had an affair 4 or so years ago so yet more shit to trawl through. I find it astonishingly helpful, but you have to find the right person for you.

mitfordsisters - you are right of course, I should keep my cool. Lordy its hard though - I get so frustrated that he thinks I'm mean because I'm even raising it as an issue.

Thanks for all the messages about my first day at work - I'm really chuffed about it.

I really don't think you need to get over yourself and it is incredibly difficult to just let it go. I used to be able to but that was before DD so a completely different situation which DP just doesn't seem to get.

Still not speaking to me. Grrrr.

wot!!! the mans an arse!!

develope an air of lofty indifference and act as if he doesn't exist - that means don't cook for him, make him brews, pick up his clothes or do any ironing for him until he develops a sense of maturity

I have been tempted to do that many times just to show him how much I do round here, but I know it would be twisted round to me being immature

I am starting to realise that this isn't going to work. I have let him make me feel that I have no right to be annoyed or angry and instead what I do is supress the anger which makes me anxious and depressed. I think he actually just wants a stepford wife, and I'm not able to do it.

I apologised tonight for being arsey and explained that I was disappointed. He said he was pleased I said that. When I asked him if there was anything he wanted to say, he said no, he could not see that he had done anything wrong so he wasn't prepared to say sorry.

GREEN my old mucker, am just skimming this. {Waves over-zealously}. I am so sorry. He is being Lord de Twat, girl, and you know it. No - you are not asking too much; it's a matter of respect,and communication, and you have repeatedly asked him to let you know when he will be coming back.

Did he even deign to ask you how your first day at work went? Is he talking to you now?

Love the Jim Royle idea, think that's fabulous, and will immediately enforce in the Paley household.

Could you show him this thread? Could you write it to him? Have you ever tried writing to him? I am v GRRR on your behalf. I feel you are working immensely hard to try and repair things. Pecker up darlin.

No, you are not being unreasonable. Would you put up with being treated like this by anyone else? It is very rude and inconsiderate to be late constantly without phoning or apologising, and then when someone complains about your timekeeping, to blame them for moaning. Your DP sounds like yet another of these men who are pure gender solipsists ie they think that they are the only people who actually matter in their families, and that women are just part of the furniture and nag away about nothing and should know their place etc.
Is he a decent bloke in other respects ie is he kind to you in general, appreciative of what you do, helpful with DC, generous and well-mannered? Because if he isn't, if he puts you down all the time and just expects you to shut up and service him, then maybe you do need to think about whether you want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't respect you in the least.

You not unreasonably want to know what time he will be home as presumably you have to cook a meal for the two of you and the dcs, and it is a PITA when you have cooked and they aren't home.

I'd stop talking to him about it. I'd tell him what time the meal will be ready, and when he isn't there, leave his on the side (under an open window as my Mum did to my Dad once) and he'll soon get the message.

Alternatively, arrange things for the dcs and yourself to do in the evenings if they aren't too small that don't involve him and explain why - you're not here, I don't know when you're going to be, so I'm getting on with it. That tends to work as some men don't like coming home to an empty house.

My dh knows that I cook when he gets in and that I get cross when he doesn't get back til about 2000. He now phones me so that I can feed ds and myself, and his gets nuked when he gets home.

He knows that he has to be home on time on a Monday as I have a pilates class at 1900 and I need 15 minutes to get there. That might also work, book a class and tell him he's looking after the kids that night.

The problem is that men don't really multitask and they think in straight lines, so they finish one thing before they start the next. Women don't work like that, as we have a lot to juggle and to sort out - work, domestics, kids, shopping, after school activities etc etc. He won't apologise as he doesn't perceive he's done anything wrong, and I think this time you'll have to let it go, but it very plain that you expect a call as a courtesy if he's going to be late as it may interfere with your schedule otherwise.

nice fighting talk scaryteacher.

I used to do what ScaryTeacher did with my ex.. would tell him "I am cooking dinner for x time" if he wasn't there he would have to warm it up and suffer the cold shoulder..

..although the only reason my ex wasn't on time was due to the number of pints he was sinking.

Hey Green, we talked on your other thread - sorry to hear things haven't improved much.

I think one of the things he has to realise is that the goal posts have moved a bit in that you are now working full time and as such the home work/life balance has shifted and he has to move with it. Working your hours means that you now have much less time to fit in everything you need to do and so you need to be able to rely on him to help out. THis means sticking to his promises. If he says he will be home he should make every effort to follow through, or call and let you know. To expect to be able to do what he wants, when he want without being questioned and to twist it into you being unreasonable when he changes his plans and you get (not unreasonably) pissed off, is childish/solipsistic/egotistic - take your pick. Also - did he never ask how your first day went?? After 8 years not working?? It was a big day for you and he was cold to ignore it.

I think what you said about your yoga time on the other thread sums it up. He promised you time to yourself, selfishly engineered it so that you didn't get it and then took the upper hand when you got pissed off. Are you not allowed to feel annoyed. Does he think he has a right to move through life without being questioned and you, your job, the children all ebb and flow around him in his wake.

I would be seriously ticked off. As you say it is symptomatic of the bigger picture. I would be tempted to deal with it by excluding him from the evening routine as someone else said. Deal with the kids, cook and eat together. He gets his plated up to deal with himself when he gets in. As you have said, he only thinks in terms of what effects him and so long as he is happy, he ignores everything else and the emotional fallout that ensue. If challenged he twists it so that you doubt whether you have a leg to stand on - how dare you question him!! Eventually, I guess he is hoping you will stop as you accept it is a lost cause. You deserve to be happy. Don't let him grind you down. Get tough!!

my dh does this too. What really annoys me is that he will complain that he wants his tea on the table when he gets in (and I, like some bloody parody of a 50's housewife actually strive to achieve this though I am getting wholly sick of it ) then if he is late and I get annoyed at having cooked he will apologise in that meaningless way that children and expect it to be fine.

As someone else said, it is as if the rest of the family are just satellites circling him and his schedule!!

Am winding myself up now!!!