Help with my daughter (24)

[mumhelpwithdaughter]

Hoping you can help me with my daughter (she is 24). I have been to talk to someone as my daughter asked me to, after we last spoke. This person has suggested I talk to my daughter to explain why I feel the way I do but agreed an email to my daughter would be OK. This is mainly because I really can't face trying telling my daughter and watch her face have no expression like last time. Last time, I told her to come home to see me and I cried and told her that I need her to tell me that she loves me. She said she did, but I told her that really I know she hates me.

The person I spoke with agreed that how I feel is fairly normal but made worse due to a couple things.

I have always totally understood that my daughter has her own life now but it seems that she has forgotten I need to feel part of it too.

She might find it hard to imagine but I was 24 years old once, except I was also married with my own house (my daughter lives in a houseshare near her boyfriend, about an hour away from us, where she is doing teacher training).

However I have told my daughter that I never forgot I still had a mum who loved me dearly, as I do my daughter and I continued to visit her, sometimes unannounced, to hug, tell her I loved her and that I still needed her.

Since my daughter left to start university she has never come back unannounced/as a surprise. The first couple of years she left I hoped she might pop home unannounced on Mother's Day but never did. Once I remember her dad said he was just popping out to check the boat and thought he was really going to pick her up from the station - but no. I tried calling her every day at uni, sometimes she didn’t answer so I called her boyfriend instead which she said was intrusive. She wouldn’t give me a copy of her timetable or put an app on her phone so I could see where she was.

Then recently when she bought her car I thought this would be the time she started to pop back home to say hi. Guess she has been too busy.

I have tried sending her lots of messages (emails and texts) in the mornings before work telling her I love her and I need her to let me in.

The lady said that sometimes it takes something drastic for children to suddenly remember one day their parents might not be there. She was speaking from experience as she put off visiting her mum for only a few days. Tragically her mum was knocked down by a lorry and she never saw her again. I have told my daughter this in an email.

I am not going to beg her but I need her to understand that I need to be part of her new and changing life.

I have come across people who have undergone joint family sessions with their abusive parents; without exception this has been a complete waste of time because the parents do not want to change and think they have done nothing wrong.

Do not put yourself through any joint therapy session and besides which you write that you're scared already. Disordered of thinking people like your mother (and her enabler of a husband) are quite happy to blame everyone else but their own selves for how their lives have turned out.

mumhelpwithdaughter

re your comments in quotemarks:
"I’ve read that some counsellors have a bias towards keeping families together, so I wonder if this is one of those? I also went to a counsellor a few years ago who said that it sounded like I wasn’t meeting my mum’s expectations for me so I didn’t go back to that counsellor again".

Yes many certainly do and that is also the type of person you should not be seeing. Unfortunately toxic parents do not play by the normal rules of familial engagement and also do not think that rules apply to them. The rule book really does go out the window when it comes to dysfunctional families.

You were indeed wise not to see that particular person that went on about your mother's expectations of you. Again and I cannot stress this enough never ever embark on joint therapy with your mother and or father. Please take heed.

"My dad doesn’t know what to do with her and he seems to look to me to solve it. He said that she needs my support and that relationships change when children grow up, so I should be supporting her now"

Balls to him frankly; he has let both you and your sibling down abjectly since childhood. Its not your job and never was to solve your mother's problems nor ease her pain. How dare he talk to you like this as well. He really is his wife's enabler here and he is not going to help you nor can he be relied upon either.

My dad doesn’t know what to do with her and he seems to look to me to solve it. He said that she needs my support and that relationships change when children grow up, so I should be supporting her now.

Fuck that!

You're 24, barely started on your life.

Don't get sucked back into an abusive relationship.

They both sound awful.

So your dad is happy to throw you under the bus if it makes his life easier?

I would read your therapist comment of failing to meet your mothers expectations as your mothers expectations being unrealistic, not necessarily as a criticism of you. The therapist might have been offering an opening for you to explore how you felt about your relationship with your mother, to come to your own realizations if relationship is what you want or if you wanted to change the dynamic in the family.

100% This.

Op your mum has so many traits and actions that mine has too and that's why after trying for 53 years I finally went no contact earlier this year and I wish I had done it years ago. I too remember as a child the awfulness of the silent treatment, directed anger, walking on eggshells and being her emotional punchbag which sometimes turned physical as I grew into my teens. It was so damaging and I can fully relate to you and I wouldn't wish it on you.
The truth is you will sadly never change her, she likely doesn't accept or see herself as the problem and in her eyes you are issue and she is the victim in all of this.
There is a great guy on social media platforms, Josh Connolly who I think you would benefit from watching and is definitely worth checking out. I had many eyes wide open moments after watching him.
Wishing you all the best and I hope you do what's best for you.

Urgh. Your mum is a nightmare, manipulative, and 'me, myself and I' with a side order of 'me, it's all about ME!' Yuk!
Does her email say anything about her own behaviour? Does she admit fault in anyway or acknowledge that relationships are a two way street?
Sorry you've never known what a 'real' mum should be like.
A decent mum should be someone you can always turn to, someone you can confide in, without judgment or rebuke, who loves you unconditionally, builds your confidence, enjoys watching you grow and develop into an independent young woman, basically someone who makes life just a little bit better especially when things go wrong, get tough or are just a bit shit.
I wonder if your mum is seeing the relationship her friends have with their kids morph from that of parent to friend, and is feeling jealous she doesn't have that with you? As it doesn't sound like she actually wants to build a bond with you, she just wants things her way, but that's not how relationships work.
I'd be tempted to tell her if she wants a relationship, she needs to accept some responsibility, and start from scratch, ie you have a set time when you speak to each other, that might seem a bit formulaic, in the first instance, but it doesn't need to be set in stone forever, just whilst the relationship is being rebuilt. if she's not willing to work at it, well that's her problem. But I'm sorry OP, it sounds very stressful, and hard work and it shouldn't be.

My parents support me loads, and we have a fairly good relationship. We talk about once a week on the phone and despite them only living half an hour away, I rarely go there without calling first - I don’t want to be stood on the doorstep while they are at Tescos!

so I might call them this evening and ask if DS and I can pop over for lunch on Saturday. That’s normal. People have busy lives.

your mum’s expectations aren’t normal. It is likely to be difficult to convince her of that though. But if you know that in yourself it is easier to know this mess isn’t your fault.

She sounds really horrible. Especially her silent treatment when you were a child. That's not okay and abusive!

She does sound like a narcissist.

If I were you I would be tempted to go no contact. Or very low contact on your terms (block her email etc).

Thank you, that hadn’t occurred to me about the therapist. She said she always considered both sides of the story and then said about mum’s expectations, so I think it felt like another kind of vote for ‘maybe I’m the problem and not my mum’ - not that I want to pay for people to tell me it’s not my fault! But it didn’t sit right with me. Maybe I should have persevered, but I admit it freaked me out and I didn’t go back.

Yes, my dad’s point of view is always let the past be in the past, it’s time to move forward and build a relationship etc

Thank you. No, her email doesn’t mention anything else - everything she wrote is in the OP, nothing was taken out and I added just those bits of context that I mentioned previously. Everything else is ad verbatim and all she wrote (although onviously changing you to she).

What you’ve said about never knowing what a mum should be like is actually really apt. I hadn’t thought about it like that before - that’s really sad, isn’t it?

Thank you. It’s so confusing - she acted one way all my childhood/teenagehood and then decided I owed her a close relationship and became unbearable in how she bombards me. It feels so intrusive and almost like a stalker, like someone said earlier (not that I want to minimise stalking in any way).

She thinks I’m being controlled by my boyfriend and his mum, but I just want to live my life and do normal 24 yo things

Please don't go to counselling with your mother - she's abusive.

I'd recommend counselling for you, though. 💐

@Frankensteinian you’ll start to recognise them when you’ve seen a few. The poster is trying to get everyone to agree with them, but posts in a way that makes them sound so unreasonable, it’s clear they’re actually the other party.

Sorry again for the reverse. That really is what my mum wrote, and I wanted to use her own words to see if others shared my thoughts about how she communicates - that’s why I thought it was important to share her email pretty much as she wrote it.

Having been there, can I awk you to reflect on this question?
This is.a question that was put to me and help me clarity my feelings without the guilt and manipulation skewing things.

’In an ideal world (and bearing in mind you can’t change your past or your mums behaviour now or in any way as part of this) in an ideal world - what would you like your relationship with her to look like?’
(again bear in mind this can’t be ‘I would like her to do xyz…you have to answer this based on your experience of her so far in life and the fact she may continue how she’s behaving now, forever.

Here’s what I added. Everything not highlighted is my mum’s words (other than ‘you’ changed to ‘she/her’, because the email was directly to me).

Ps if it helps, my answer came quickly to me - it was ‘I would never want to see her again’

However that hasn’t been possible due to other family members so I have gone what is known as ‘very low contact’ which means polite, kind, but distant (physically and more importantly, emotionally)

I’d like her to understand her role in our poor relationship, and to take accountability for her behaviour and get help for it. Is that the sort of thing you mean? Sorry if I’ve got it wrong. I know it’s not going to happen, unfortunately.

I think our whole relationship has been about me making sure I reassure her that she is loved, rather than her making me feel loved as her child?

Ah, I see what you mean. I think that’s the point I’m getting to as well, unfortunately. So sorry you’ve been through this too.

@mumhelpwithdaughter im sorry you’re going through this. As a PP said she had a bad experience with her mom and the chance to put it right with you but she didn’t. I had exactly the same. Mother with a bad mother. My job now is to make sure I don’t carry it down to my children.
I tried everything- my decision to go LC came at the end of a 30 year road where I’d tried everything to get her ‘to see’ the impact she was having with her behaviour. Sadly they never do.
I have had lots of counselling it does help.
i suffered a lot at her hands but no one ever stood up for me and often tried to even blame me. She was always the victim in her eyes.

i found this podcast really really helpful. Life changing almost.

https://insightpodcast.com

ps don’t be put off by the narcissism’ title it’s not all about narcissism it’s about dysfunctional relationships usually parent and child. So many fascinating stories - it’s led by two trained therapists who are so insightful. Start with the first podcast and work your way through or pick a few with a title that resonates with you. They answer a readers letter each week.

Your mum needs psychological help. It sounds like your mother cannot accept that you are a grown woman and not a child who is reliant upon her anymore.

The wanting to put an app on your phone to see where you are is insane.

I tried to read all your posts, but I think she has serious regret about how she treated you as a child and now she wants to somehow re-do all that by being best friends. The best person to tell her that is delusional is a qualified psychiatrist.

That’s really interesting @Pherian thank you. I wonder if she does have regrets. If she does, I think I’d find it really helpful if she was open about that and told me that she has regrets, because it would mean she has an insight into how her behaviour has affected us. That would be a really meaningful step to us having a better relationship

@KaleQueen, I’m really sorry that you’ve been through similar and that nobody else in your family stood up for you either. That sounds so familiar.

My nan (mum’s mum) understands that mum is ‘difficult to get along with’ (my dad’s words), but she didn’t know the extent of mum’s behaviour towards us until recently. She still expects me to go and sit with mum and have her cry all over me about what an awful daughter I am, though

edit, forgot to say I’ll look at the podcast! Thank you

Definitely sounds like narcissistic personality disorder. Some of them move from being bullying and abusive when they know you can’t leave, to fawning and guilt tripping when you have left. They don’t change, you can’t fix this. I hope you find it in your heart to forgive her at some point in your life, but in the meantime it helps if you move countries 🤣

@mumhelpwithdaughter what is your mum like with your sister?? does she treat her the same?