Help with my daughter (24)

[mumhelpwithdaughter]

Hoping you can help me with my daughter (she is 24). I have been to talk to someone as my daughter asked me to, after we last spoke. This person has suggested I talk to my daughter to explain why I feel the way I do but agreed an email to my daughter would be OK. This is mainly because I really can't face trying telling my daughter and watch her face have no expression like last time. Last time, I told her to come home to see me and I cried and told her that I need her to tell me that she loves me. She said she did, but I told her that really I know she hates me.

The person I spoke with agreed that how I feel is fairly normal but made worse due to a couple things.

I have always totally understood that my daughter has her own life now but it seems that she has forgotten I need to feel part of it too.

She might find it hard to imagine but I was 24 years old once, except I was also married with my own house (my daughter lives in a houseshare near her boyfriend, about an hour away from us, where she is doing teacher training).

However I have told my daughter that I never forgot I still had a mum who loved me dearly, as I do my daughter and I continued to visit her, sometimes unannounced, to hug, tell her I loved her and that I still needed her.

Since my daughter left to start university she has never come back unannounced/as a surprise. The first couple of years she left I hoped she might pop home unannounced on Mother's Day but never did. Once I remember her dad said he was just popping out to check the boat and thought he was really going to pick her up from the station - but no. I tried calling her every day at uni, sometimes she didn’t answer so I called her boyfriend instead which she said was intrusive. She wouldn’t give me a copy of her timetable or put an app on her phone so I could see where she was.

Then recently when she bought her car I thought this would be the time she started to pop back home to say hi. Guess she has been too busy.

I have tried sending her lots of messages (emails and texts) in the mornings before work telling her I love her and I need her to let me in.

The lady said that sometimes it takes something drastic for children to suddenly remember one day their parents might not be there. She was speaking from experience as she put off visiting her mum for only a few days. Tragically her mum was knocked down by a lorry and she never saw her again. I have told my daughter this in an email.

I am not going to beg her but I need her to understand that I need to be part of her new and changing life.

She’s always been a difficult character. It’s definitely got worse over the last few years since I went to uni. It’s like I’m not there any more to be her emotional punchbag? I don’t know if that’s fair.

She hasn’t always been so needy though, that’s quite new. If anything, she pushed us all away with really volatile behaviour (anger or silent treatment), but she doesn’t connect that behaviour to me not wanting to open up to her and wanting some space from her. I only live 40-50 miles away, and she’s cried on me that I keep getting further and further away (my sister lives probably as far away again).

She sounds awful.

my mum has rung me about twice since I left for uni 25 years ago. I ring her about once a week, I ring her on Mother’s Day and her birthday if I’m not going to see her (she lives 4 hours away).

normal parents don’t act like yours, sorry. Not sure what the solution is!

It sounds like you both need boundaries. I would make a schedule when you might visit for an hour or two, perhaps once every two weeks. Perhaps go somewhere like a coffee shop rather than at home which is a reminder of the old dynamics.
Its better to be consistent than pull off surprises
Good luck. It doesn’t sound easy.

Whatever action you take is up to you, I can imagine not wanting anything to do with her because she sounds abusive.

You could take a look at the Out of the Fog website. You aren't beholden to her OP and I suggest therapy. Anxiety UK does affordable therapy if you are skint. Also take a look at Toxic Parents, it's a book you might find useful.

Well done on getting away, it can't have been easy. Decide on what level of contact if any, you're comfortable with and live your life.

OP this isn’t normal at all. I see you feel your DM is actually getting worse as time goes on or the more you’re pushing back.
I probably could have written something similar re my “DP”, especially re moving away/the phonecalls etc.
When manipulative/abusive people start to lose control they often ramp it up. And be under no illusions, parents can be manipulative and abusive.
My advice is to deal with this now, and that may mean getting some therapy and going LC to redress the balance. Because your DM won’t change.

Your Mother has rang you twice in 25 years? Normal parents don't act like that either!

This is awful. I think she’s struggling with the idea that she can’t control you any more, now you’re at a distance, so is escalating. She sounds horribly manipulative and emotionally abusive, and you must be finding it hard to navigate. I am not sure it will ever be possible to develop a functional, mutually-respectful adult relationship with her, but if it is important to you, you might want to consider talking it all through with a therapist (someone with BACP, not whichever charlatan your mother appears to be seeing). If you get nothing else from this thread, though, please know your mother’s behaviour is in no way normal, and you don’t have to play along with emotional blackmail.

I’m really sorry you’re going through this - I have been through similar and it’s not easy. The more pressure she puts on you, the less you will want to see her.

Can you block her from messaging you and agree to a once weekly or fortnightly call maybe?

She sounds unreasonable and won’t be open to taking any accountability for her actions, so the only way to enforce boundaries is harshly. She will blow up but you need to stay firm and wait for it to blow over.

Remember that you aren’t a bad person, no matter how she tries to make you feel. Your feelings towards her are based on how she has treated you over the years - you aren’t obliged to change your feelings just because she has decided she would like you to.

I really wish you the best of luck! Keep living your own life and don’t let her take it from you. From experience, if you let her in she will try to take over. Never give her a timetable or anything she can use to try and exert control over you. Save, save, save and make sure you are financially independent from her, and make sure your post all goes to your current address and not hers.

Reading this makes me feel like I cannot breathe, I cannot imagine having to live this nightmare. I really feel for you.

id send her an email and ask she see a new therapist, the person she is seeing/speaking with clearly is encouraging this behaviour and not helping her deal with it. Perhaps a family therapy session with a new professional as a one off and then you can exit from it so the therapist sees your perspective too and can help her correctly ?

OP it sounds like you need to visit the stately homes thread. At first I thought she just needed to be told to give you some space but now you've explained what life was like for you when you lived with her, it sounds like she's feeling like you're out of her zone of control now and trying to get you back in with emotional blackmail. I've had similar and low contact has worked for me. Best of luck.

Sounds as if she is still trying to control you!

She might be unwell but that's not your responsibility.

Have the contact that you want!

Ps - one thing has just come to mind that could explain your Mum's behaviour - has she ever lived with a suicidal person?

Because when you have lived with someone who's either ended their life by suicide, or made attempts on their life, the first thing you think when a loved one goes silent is "they're dead"

Not that this is your problem - but if there is something like this, it does help explain it. Even if it was years ago - this stays with a person.

Thank you for replying and I’m really sorry again. I wanted to use my mum’s own words because otherwise you only get my side of the story and that didn’t seem fair.

I’d be scared to go to counselling with her but if it helped her, then it would be a good thing. I don’t think she can reflect on her own behaviour or understand how it makes anyone else feel, so maybe a counsellor could help her to do that. I know that the counsellor she saw is the one from the school where she is a governor, so I don’t know if they have the same regulations (BACP?) as other counsellors or not

Low/reduced contact, at least for a time, might help. As well as readjusting expectations of the relationship and setting clear boundaries with her... She definitely does sound like she's been acting instrusively.

From what you have described in terms of her going into a rage whenever you used to try to relate to her or seek advice, I can totally empathise as my mum was the same. She feels uncomfortable with any sort of vulnerability and has never learned to handle it.

It sounds as if your mum is looking to you to meet some of her emotional needs now. Very difficult if it she spent so long essentially pushing you away.

Does she have close friends or a partner she can turn to instead?

Do not go to any joint family therapy sessions under any circumstances. Such therapy is never recommended when there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Abuse is also NOT a relationship issue; its about power and control and your mother has tried doing that to you from childhood onwards. Her behaviour now is she trying to regain some power and control.

Silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse. Her anger and rages towards you is and was never acceptable either. You were but a child at the time; none of this was your fault.

Where was your dad whilst all this was going on?. It could be argued he has also failed to protect you and your sibling from the excesses of his wife's behaviour. I wonder if he has stood back out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Sadly he cannot be relied upon either.

Its of no real surprise to read that your sibling has moved miles away from them as well.

It is not your fault she is like this nor did you make her that way either (her own family did that). Do read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and consider reading and posting on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

You might find information on "emotionally immature parents" to be useful. It's helped me better understand what might be going on (or not going on) behind the weird volatile behaviours.

Using the term “unannounced” instead of “a surprise” or “without calling” suggests a negative feeling around it. Which you wouldn’t have if you were the one dropping in!

The lady said that sometimes it takes something drastic for children to suddenly remember one day their parents might not be there. She was speaking from experience as she put off visiting her mum for only a few days. Tragically her mum was knocked down by a lorry and she never saw her again.

Are you 100% sure she saw a therapist, because this does not sound like something any professional would come out with. What professional, after years of study and exams would tell a client that her daughter better get back in line in case the mother dies unexpectedly? I call bullshit, she is trying to use a cack handed version of "therapy talk" to manipulate you again. She believes that if she tells you that a professional said or agreed that she is right you will go along with what she wants, this is what abusers do.

I think you should keep your distance, if you feel you must maintain a relationship, meet in a neutral location for a set amount of time, so lunch in a coffee shop, have your own way of getting there and leaving, do not be dependent on her for transport. Block her on your boyfriends phone, mute her on yours and only reply to messages or emails at your convenience. I also think it's very poor of your dad to allow this nonsense to continue without confronting her, but he is probably relieved that it's not him in the firing line.

mumhelpwithdaughter

re your comments in quotemarks

"I’d be scared to go to counselling with her but if it helped her, then it would be a good thing. I don’t think she can reflect on her own behaviour or understand how it makes anyone else feel, so maybe a counsellor could help her to do that".

You are scared of her for good reason. NO GOOD will come to you if you embark on joint counselling with her. As already mentioned abuse is NOT a relationship issue; its about power and control.

What if anything do you know about her own family background and childhood; that often gives clues.

"I don’t think she can reflect on her own behaviour or understand how it makes anyone else feel, so maybe a counsellor could help her to do that".

A counsellor will never make her see differently. You need to accept that this is who she is and she is not going to change for you nor a counsellor. If she can manipulate you she can certainly manipulate a counsellor and I daresay this counsellor does not recognise abuse. Also she will need years of therapy, not mere weeks. You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

You also have two qualities she completely lacks; empathy and insight.

They usually have to be quite highly qualified to work for an EAP (if that's where you mean she got one from) and yes, usually BACP although occasionally NCS. Counselling can be useful for your situation but obviously you'd both need to want to work to an amicable solution. She sounds complicated!

@Workhardcryharder that’s not part that I added, that’s really the word my mum used in her email.

The thing is, I know she doesn’t have a good relationship with her own mum (my nan), so that section of the email is a bit baffling to me. She never facilitated a relationship with my nan when we were small, and she’d complain about visiting her, so I really can’t imagine her dropping in as a surprise in any case. It’s weird

No surprise whatsoever to read that her own relationship with her mother was and is not good. Your mother had a choice when it came to you and merely chose to dish out similar that was done to her in childhood.

Its no excuse or justification all the same for what she is and has done to you and your sibling.

OP please have a read of this, it's about abuse in relationships but I think it applies to you too.

https://www.malahidecounselling.com/why-couples-therapy-doesnt-work-for-people-in-abusive-relationships-with-narcissists/

The power imbalance present in an abusive relationship is naturally counterproductive when entering a space where both parties are expected to participate to improve the relationship. By partner abuse, I mean the use of force, intimidation, or manipulation—or the threat to use any of those methods—to control, hurt, or frighten an intimate partner.

I think your mother would meet these criteria, it would be harmful to you to enter into counseling with her, she will use it as another way to control you.

Can you not respond with your perspective on the situation. Including your childhood. I'd then say if she's willing to acknowledge your pov then you'd be willing to talk. But if she thinks her pov is the only right one I'd just step right back until she can.

Well I think she did (that’s what she’s told me, anyway), but I suppose I can’t be 100% sure? This was probably the part of her email that stood out to me the most as quite manipulative.

I’ve read that some counsellors have a bias towards keeping families together, so I wonder if this is one of those? I also went to a counsellor a few years ago who said that it sounded like I wasn’t meeting my mum’s expectations for me so I didn’t go back to that counsellor again.

My dad doesn’t know what to do with her and he seems to look to me to solve it. He said that she needs my support and that relationships change when children grow up, so I should be supporting her now.