Kids don't want a relationship with Grandma

[Bertie17]

Morning all,
This is kind of hard for me to write and its long winded but I'll skip out the long explanation of why it happened. But it's happened and I genuinely believe there's no going back now. My kids have said they don't want to be associated with her anymore as a result.
Over the years she's fallen out with many members of the family - even her own kids at times - and she's been quite biased when it comes to the Grand kids too - she definitely has her favourites and makes it's so obvious that it's quite sickening tbh. She's got 10 grandkids altogether.
Myself and OH have caught her out lying about allsorts several times and when confronted about it, she's always been in denial about any wrong doings and blames everyone else for what's happened.
We've got 3 kids, 2 girls aged 22 and 15 and a son who's 17. She's made it obvious that she favours our son over our Daughters as she'd spoil him rotten then give the girls "leftovers". Which then caused problems in our house. She'd come down to ours with a bag full of new clothes for our son but then bring a skipping rope and a hoolahoop for our youngest Daughter (who was only 9 at the time) and tell her to get out in the garden with them and skip because she was "too fat". You can probably imagine how my poor DD felt. It was heartbreaking.
She'd come to our house snooping round the bedrooms after pretending to go to the loo, she'd sit and slate everyone and I mean everyone. Even BILs 2 youngest kids. She'd say they were fat, they were pains in the backside, one of them is thick as pig poo. But we never ever told anyone because it would cause endless crap that we don't want or need. She's slated BILs new girlfriend and her kids. Said his girlfriends a liar and her kids think they're something special. But later that same week she'd be out having lunch with them.
She started bribing our son with money too. Told him if he brought a cup and plate out of his room that she'd give him 20 quid. She even told him she'd give him 50 quid if he took his acne meds every day for a month (he was taking them every day anyway) but he wasn't allowed to tell us or his sisters. Obviously I found out, I always do. And I begged her to stop. Because it was getting to a point where he was wanting money out of us for doing stuff ie cleaning his bedroom. I told her he should want to keep his room clean, he shouldn't expect money everytime I tell him to clean his room. She made life soooo hard for us and the arguments that came with her bribery were ridiculous.
She'd be down at our house 5 days a week because she was bored and we felt like we couldn't breathe. If I was going anywhere ie shopping and I wasn't in when she came down, she'd get on about it and be ringing me asking how long I was going be and then not speak to me for a week. But then she'd tell SIL that we never went to see her and only went when we wanted something. But she'd told us SIL didn't like us, she was sick of SIL bossing her about and saying she wasn't allowed to buy our kids anything. Which obviously got our backs up with SIL because our kids are her Grandkids too.
I told my OH that she'd cause major trouble one day and he agreed. It was just a matter of when.
Then it happened.
Everything that she'd been lying about to SIL when we went on holiday last year .( SIL came along as she was in process of leaving hubby no2.) came to a head. SIL threatened my OH, pushed our eldest DD and threatened to smash her face in, then threatened DS and youngest DD. And we had a HUGE falling out. All MILs lies came out and she blamed SIL at first, said she knew she was going to cause trouble on holiday and wish she'd never asked her to come. Then SIL and MIL were arguing. SIL calling MIL a narcissist. OH and FIL had to stop her. Then MIL rang one of the other Granddaughters telling her that our eldest DD had been talking about her (she'd not said a word!) so she rang DD kicking off.
Next day however, SIL and MIL were fine and stopped speaking to us.
We left the holiday the next day and came home and we've not spoken since.
MIL has seen DS a couple of times and told him SIL was out of order, she does her head in, and then proceeded to tell DS about SILs first hubby and how she chooses stupid men bla bla bla. She's not spoke to DS again since even when she's seen him. She saw youngest DD the other day and stared straight through her as though she didn't know her. FIL was coming to see us regularly but he's not allowed because MIL said so. Her reasons being because we didn't buy her a birthday card. Bearing in mind her birthday was 3 months after the fall out and she said she didn't want to speak to us for the rest of her life.
Our kids are missing out on so much but tbh they don't care. They've said they don't want to be associated anymore. They miss their Grandad so much but not Nannan. I'm beginning to think SIL was right when she called her a narcissist. DS starts an engineering apprenticeship in 2 weeks. They don't even know. They'll only get to find out if I put something on social media or if BIL tells them. BIL we see regular, he's been ace. He's had loads of issues with MIL in the past himself and he's tried to smooth things over for us because he says she's being pathetic but it got him nowhere. Then she accused him of stealing out of her house (he didn't!) because he was sticking up for us and told MIL that SIL was a trouble causer too.
I'm done trying with that woman and OH and kids are too. Life's a lot more peaceful since she's not been speaking to us. I knew this would happen one day. And I was right. And she's got nobody else to blame but herself. She's still snooping on us because BIL told us. It's just kids are missing out on cousins etc because she's poisoned them against us too.

I'm not forcing them to have a relationship with her. It's nicer without her. 100%. None of us miss her.

August 2024 - But we took you to Stately Homes! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/5135984-august-2024-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

I think this thread will be very beneficial. It's a support thread for toxic families.

Grandparents arent on SM. We've blocked SIL. Cousins still have each other and myself on SM.

Your children shouldn't have been driven to this place.
Its clear why they have been.
Years and years of awful behaviour.
Their grandfather is responsible for his relationship with them.

You have written a long list of dreadful behaviour from this woman and yet you also now write there was no toxicity around your children?

Your children have been forced to say they want nothing to do with this awful woman.
They should never have been put in this position.
They should have been ruthlessly protected from her behaviour by cutting her off years ago.

That didn't happen and now they are forced to do it.

If that isn't an utterly toxic environment I don't know what is.

What do you want from the thread, OP?

I mean, it’s going to be unanimous that you don’t have a relationship with her any more, which you’ve done now. You’ll get a lot of “should have done it sooner”. But what would actually help from this thread? I don’t know what you’re asking for. Stately homes thread is a good pointer if it’s support.

Oh the drama has continued with BIL and his GF. He's not speaking to her after being accused of something he hasn't done and she stopped speaking to his GF after a disagreement. She's getting worse and worse as she's getting older..

As the parents, you and your h should have cut MIL off years ago.

I think that you’re naive to say that there was no toxicity when incidents like ds being outrageously favoured were happening and mil still had access to the kids. The kids in the family whether yours or SILs will have been damaged.

I cut off my own mother for being abusive and toxic to me before I had kids and protecting them from the drama, shitty feelings etc is one of the best things I ever did. Lots of people can’t understand how I can cut her off because they come from functional families where people can talk it out or they are in denial and say “blood is thicker than water, kids have a right to know what their grandparents are like “ etc but them never meeting her has meant that the cycle of abuse and toxicity ended with my generation.

Grandfather has chosen to enable his wife. It’s sad but it’s his right to choose that option.

I just wanted advice on how best to still maintain a relationship with their Grandad. We're not going to go up to see him for obvious reasons and we can't make him come to see us all because he doesn't want to pee MIL off. He's the loveliest bloke and was genuinely upset about everything. I've told him over the years about the stuff MIL would say and why we'd stopped talking to her at times and he had no idea she'd been doing half the stuff she had. When I told him about him bribing my son he went mental. He had no idea.
Everyone's here thinking weve allowed stuff to happen but she's been told repeatedly to stop. Sometimes we've not spoken for a while because shes been put in her place. Then she'd be absolutely lovely for ages then she'd say or do something to cause drama again. She's not just like it with my kids either. She undermines my BIL with his kids, my SIL with hers. SIL son stole off SIL and MIL undermined her when SIL told her not to give him money seeing as he'd stolen off her. They had a massive argument because of that. All their kids still see her on a daily basis (they've lived with her at times too!) we're the only ones who've stopped it and broken contact. Not just this once but a few times. This time is for good though and I'm glad.

It's a no brainer OP. Your children have the right idea and are sensible to go N.C. They are adults now so it's up to them.They are not missing out at all, quite the opposite! In fact you could learn a lesson in boundaries from your children who have been exposed to MILs narcissistic behaviour all their lives.
From now on they can still choose to be in contact with their grandfather if they wish, but if he coninues to support MIL then there's nothing you can do about that and his loss.
I'm astounded you and your husband didn't go NC with her years ago to save yourself and your kids from her toxicity and all the drama.

I tried to cut her off believe me I really did . Her interference drove me mad. She drove me mad. OH didn't want to lose his relationship with his Dad or the kids relationship with their GF as they're really close but FIL is so totally under the thumb and that's been made even more obvious over the past few months.
She's not just like this with my kids either. She's got her favourites out of BILs 5 kids. If BIL knew what she'd said about his 2 youngest he'd be mortified. We're the only ones who've put her in her place, stopped talking to her and this time stuck to it.

She is a toxic, manipulating, arrogant excuse of a human being.

The reason you are all feeling relieved is because she is not physically around you all, or in your presence. People like this are draining and too much time around them is the result of poor MH.

The fact that your kids want nothing to do with her is a very good sign. She could have cut her nose off to spite her face because in the future, if I'll health comes her way, she will only have her own daughter to turn to and if that gets too much for her ( SIL), there will be no one and she she has only herself to blame.

FIL has evidently chosen to prioritise not rocking the boat over seeing your DC in person. That's his decision, not yours. So it's simply a question of whether he'd be willing and able to keep in contact via other methods. Nobody on here can tell you that. Either he'll be able to get away with it/not get away with it but be willing to assert the boundary anyway, or he won't.

You cannot control your childrens relationship with their granddad.
If he is too scared to see them separately then that is on him.

Do not get involved.
Your children are simply not important enough to him.
You have to accept that.
Your children will have to accept that too.

I am not sure what your kids are doing wrong here. I think you and your Dh are largely responsible for allowing a situation were this happened. Why did you let her favour your son over your daughter's? My MIL favours granddaughters over her grandsons and we pulled right back. You should have stopped contact years ago.This woman is poison to your kids. I agree with your kids. Well done on them for standing up for themselves when there parents failed to do it.

"I just wanted advice on how best to still maintain a relationship with their Grandad".

You are very much still mired in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

No, that should not happen either. Do not inflict this man further on them. Women like you have described cannot do relationships so always need a willing enabler to help them, that person here is the grandad. He has chosen a side, hers and not yours. He cannot be at all relied upon either.

He is really her secondary abuser.

And ignore the flying monkeys in the shape of BIL and SIL; they do not have your interests at heart so their opinion should be ignored.

Stopped ready after she was calling your DD fat. That's when you should have cut contact. Your poor kids having to endure that!

You should have cut her off years ago.

But as to her husband - an outsider can probably see that he is enmeshed, and there is nothing you can do for him unless he wants it.
A friend of mine had awful parents, she is still trying to see her father as as much abused as abuser - and I wouldn't tell her different. But after he got put in hospital by her mother, and my friend helped him recover and start his own life, he still went back to her mother.
I don't understand why but some people just get something from watching the drama and abuse, or maybe they hate themselves so much that it makes them feel better (or feel they're hiding).

So she never changed. She does it with other GC too. And you carried on going back and exposing DC to her toxicity.

You've only stuck to it now because your DC have put their collective feet down. Good on them. You should be proud. And I think you should acknowledge to them that you got things wrong over the years, as well intentioned as you may have been.

Grandad either grows a pair or he doesn’t. It’s easy for him to text the DC without her knowing if he wants. DC have their own friends and social lives and don’t need cousins that are embroiled in toxic family dramas. Who cares who sees what on social media? Drop all the ropes.

Dont be tempted to manipulate your children into seeing any of them. Stay out of it or you will ruin your relationship with them. Let your children decide.

Enjoy life without all the drama.

Your kids are bloody fantastic and have done what you and your husband should have done at least a decade ago.

Their Grandad knows where they are if he wants to facilitate a relationship, it appears he doesn't.

Stop getting involved with your children's boundaries, it seems that they know how to enforce them far better than you do.

You are addicted to the drama, it’s been part of your life for so long that you can’t imagine life without it. I’d suggest speaking to someone about it and also apologise to your children for not keeping them safe no ifs or buts or excuses.

I wonder where your kids got their spines from, because they seem to have been raised by a pair of invertebrates.

Shame on you for inflicting this awful, toxic nonsense on them for so long that they, the fucking children have been forced to take action where their parents have failed to.

Remove all of these horrible people from your children's lives. There's no other course of action to take.

You sadly need to just accept that your children will never have a relationship with thier dgf while his wife is still on this earth.
Its sad but true.
He has chose his loyalty to you mil. You need to put your family units mental health first.
Tell bil you no longer want to hear about them. Stop listening to the drama. While you are still listening to it all, it still festers in your head and causes negativity.

I have been here and it takes repetition of " I want a relationship with you, not to discuss them." and firm boundaries.
But after the dust settles you end up in a wonderful head space. And only genuine family relationships.

This. Wouldn't have been anywhere near me or mine ever again.