How to sort out my reaction to borderline personality mother

[ElderlyMotherTrouble]

Hello,

Apologies, this is long and I did write about my mum a few years ago on mumsnet

My mother hasn't been officially diagnosed, but very much fits the bpd personality type if my googling is to be trusted- very needy, hysterical, passive/aggressive and draining in a nutshell
She's 80 and despite my username I don't really see her as elderly as she's in rude physical health and will likely last another 20 years!
The best thing would definitely be to not have her in my life- and I did go NC for 4 blissful years after a particularly nasty episode of her shouting at me- wish I'd never gone back
she's spent her life getting stuff from other people and crossing boundaries- but it's in a helpless, manipulative way rather than in an aggressive or narcissistic way
basically she'll parade her perceived uselessness, often using tears and hysterics and eventually someone capitulates
This behaviour is why I find it so difficult to "break up" with her!!- as I said, I went NC after she yelled at me but she holds back from doing that now- I think she knows I'll vote with my feet
the other thing she does is weedle her way into someone's life by being super helpful- for example she befriended a dying, elderly man 20 yrs ago and just ploughed into his life, being "helpful" with lifts etc. Got him a Valentine's card, too. His family wised up to her
there are many other examples of her distinct lack of shame
I've always lived a comfortable 200 miles from her but since having children- now teens- it's never far enough!
every half term and holiday I dread because she'll want to do something- expect us to vist and she will happily come up- though I don't host her- I just can't do it after she was so vile to me in my own home
we are skint and time poor so a five hour journey is not to be sniffed at- though of course I'd suck it up more if I wanted to see her
the reality is we don't actually see her very much- but my anticipation when nearing school holidays is unbearable- I know I need to control this.
She's actually been married for the last decade- thank god!- he's a massive stress-head and emotes over his poor adult daughter so I guess they're peas in a pod
But I can't escape her!! ah- I know it's worse by not severing ties fully but I just don't have the reserves to do that. She's such a victim plus it would massively put on her husband and his daughter- who lives a lot nearer and is lovely, bless her- she's 10 years younger than me. I've never spoken with her about our parents as I don't want to overstep and I guess I feel she must think I'm awful for kind of dangling my mother and barely seeing her!
Anyway- I'm middle aged and without doubt I'm struggling mentally- even if I see a text from her or a letter in her handwriting or someone mentions her name, I'm completely sensitised into a panic response!! and of course she always makes reference to being "old now"- how do I get out of this? I can't face the next twenty years like this
I worry that she'll be manipulative with my kids- especially my son- he's about to go to university and I'm discouraging any campus within a couple of hours of her- she has no shame, she will manipulate my lovely boy
I do sometimes feel like I don't want to be here but I've never hurt myself or attempted anything- it's how I've been since having my ovaries removed- but I won't act on it not least because I feel like I need to be around to pre-empt any strikes she might make on my kids- my son's learning to drive- I know she'll use that- maybe I should talk to him but I've never spoken to my kids about her as she's their granny and I doubt they've picked up on it- anyway it's not their issue and I know from experience it's horrible having your relatives run down by your mother
The point of my epic thread- and thank you if you've stuck with it- is what do I employ to not anticipate/dread anything related to my mother- how do I get her out of my head- how do I compartmentalise- I do grey rock her but this doesn't make me feel any better- it just stops an explosion from meat the time which I would regret. I would like some other practical solutions if possible.
I have heard of a book- something like "how to deal with an emotionally immature mother" which sounds great but I'm scared of reading something that will make me feel worse and for me the problem has become so much worse as I've become an adult, rather than a terrible childhood and self-help books, I suspect, tend to dwell on childhood. It wasn't a dreadful time because my dutiful, sweet, if slightly emotionless dad stayed with my mother throughout our childhood- so she wasn't as bad then- so I don't feel it's a bad childhood that's the issue here- I was protected although she did have outbursts and offload emotional stuff onto me when i was 13 onwards so maybe it was less ok than I just stated!
I do weep for my twenty-something self- when I knew I felt shit around her but felt so horribly guilty, when she'd never fail to have hysterical episodes on me and I didn't have the life experience to know this was not ok- and I certainly never told anyone- the shame!!
Any coping strategies gratefully received- and I know I'm my worst enemy by not doing the best thing by cutting ties- but what's the next best thing?!
Thank you

Therapy would be helpful as her behaviour is very triggering for you.

Limiting time spent with her and dropping contact to once a month. You're already using grey rock where you don't give her any ammunition.

thank you @poppyzbrite4 , that makes perfect sense and tbh as I was typing it out I thought- I sound like I need therapy! I must admit my contact is probably less than once a month and that includes texting- I realise I'm about as low contact as I could be without being zero contact!

No problem. You could have a look here:
https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/

thanks @poppyzbrite4 that's the kind of practical help I need- just to have a starting point.

Don't give her your son's address or phone number at university

I totally second the suggestion of therapy if you can afford it. Given what you say about her it sounds very possible your childhood may have had emotionally traumatic aspects even if you don't currently think it did. At any rate I would try to find a therapist who is trauma-informed or psychodynamic rather than someone who does CBT.

You may find useful information on the Out of the Fog website and forum.

You need to do what feels best for you and if that means not cutting ties then, as you say, you need to find a way to deal with her that does not impact you to dangerous levels. I'm still in touch with mine. And she is getting more and more "helpless" as the years go by. I know just how hard that can be to deal with.

In terms of getting her out of your head and stopping the dread you basically need to get to know yourself more. At least that's what I needed to do. And I needed to understand, and then believe, that I could look after myself and enforce boundaries. My therapist has been very helpful for that. As you have found, grey rock is good for protection but it doesn't at all address how you manage your own self.

As for your kids - you can talk to them about her without running her down. It might be worth having a general conversation just to see what they say. Kids pick up on dynamics much more than you might think and they may not have said anything to you because she is your mother. If by any chance they dread contact with her then you can at least reassure them that they are absolutely allowed to have boundaries. If you don't have some sort of conversation with them you actually have no idea what they think and if they need any help.

BACP are worth contacting.

I think your dad also failed you as a parent as well by failing to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours.

I would also consider giving your children the age appropriate truth re your mother. They are likely to have seen and know far more than you perhaps realise. You did not make her that way and they need to know its not their fault either that your mother is the ways she is. If she is too difficult/toxic etc for you to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids too.

Do also look at the Out of the FOG website.

Many people with Borderline Personality Disorder are nothing like your mother. Your post is offensive and contributes to the stigma and discrimination that many people with Borderline Personality Disorder experience.

maybe stay off a post if you've nothing helpful to add

being around someone like that saps your soul- and we all have a right to look after our own emotional well-being

I don't think you can dictate who posts or not

PP has a point you are stigmatized an illness your mother hasn't even been diagnosed with

But you have used incorrect harmful myths about borderline personality disorder to label your mother. You are adding to the stigma and discrimination that innocent people with a genuine diagnosis of a very real mental illness experience on a regular basis. Your post is harmful.

have I posted on the wrong forum or something?

thanks rainbow, you've made me feel like shit!! well done- why don't you just tell me to be kind while you're at it

any mental illness or extreme personality can be an absolute disaster for those around it- and I say that as someone who takes anti-depressants, I'm incredibly aware of the potentially devastating impact on the people I love. So even if I'm wrong about my mum's diagnosis- (and I'm not, I'm really not) I stand by what I said

I am reading through the genuinely kind replies by the way- much appreciated!

Not the point of the thread but most of them are like that though. And the ones who aren’t, have probably been misdiagnosed with BPD and are actually autistic and/or have CPTSD.
Anyone with a full blown cluster B personality disorder is a nightmare to deal with, that’s the whole essence of the diagnosis.

.

But your mum hasn't even been diagnosed.

You've diagnosed her yourself based on stereotypes.

That's what is harmful

worriedhidinginplainsight
just a heads-up- you obvs have stuff going on in your life- yes, I've glanced over your various posts discussing how unfortunate you are
isn't nice to have somewhere to offload?
i don't emote over people- i rarely post about this stuff- doesnt mean it's not an issue- but when i do it's because I'm desperate
i have to say, you remind me of my mother- you are more than happy to pour out your woes but can't extend a nice word to a poster or just keep schtum- you've upset me- you do not have a monopoly on feeling bad and you are massively lacking in empathy
poor mental health does not excuse that.

I say this as someone who was diagnosed with BPD 15 years ago, successfully treated and 'undiagnosed ' as no longer meeting the criteria afterwards.

So yeah I'm not too keen on diagnosis by non professionals.

You can just say your mum is behaving badly you don't need to appropriate an actual mh disorder.

right I'm not engaging further with the "be kind" mob
if this thread gets zapped- I am actually going to save the lovely posts first!

amen to that

I strongly suspect my mother has undiagnosed BPD too, what you’re doing by keeping her at arms length and grey rocking sounds the best you can do if you don’t want to go full blown no contact. It’s awful when people try to act like you should put up with unhinged behaviour from your mother because “at the end of the day you only get one mother”, they have no idea the damage this type of mother does to you.
The “Stately Homes” thread on here is pretty good.

ah! i'd forgotten about stately homes- thank you
and i'm so sorry that you have a similarly behaved mother
yes, it's actually abusive to expect people to just take bad behviour especially, and inevitably, at their own expense

thanks, @ZiggyZowie she does have his number, but it's looking like he'll be even further from her than I am!

thanks, @Cranarc yes, I think therapy is something I know I need and have always shelved the idea as it's an expense- but with the advent of online stuff maybe it's a bit cheaper?! I will try it as it's dominating my life!
As with pp I'm so sorry you're going through this yourself- I think the final nail has been the realisation that not only is it not getting better, it's getting worse. Interesting that the empathetic posters have direct experience of all this- I think that says a lot. I do feel I could easily have gone the way of my mother but have chosen some less comfortable paths- not always- could've stuck my neck out more, but sometimes- and I hope that's reflected in my relationships with others. And yes, if I'm grey rocking then I'm actually screaming inside!! It takes its toll
I hadn't considered that my kids might have picked up on stuff but they're perfectly perceptive so quite possibly. I think I need to have a grown-up conversation with them around this and, as you say, I don't need to throw my mum under the bus! It's exhausting with having children to look out for- parental protection goes beyond the obvious safeguarding stuff for sure.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for replying- I remember you were kind enough to respond before. I do agree re my Dad- it's a shame because he's someone who obviously understands first hand how it is and would be great to talk to for that reason- all I want is people who get it- which is why I lost it at the other posters on my thread!- I'm battered enough by it all. But, yes, my Dad- ostensibly a "good man", but he got to leave, he got to walk away and as a parent I wouldn't see my duty to my kids in terms of their mother's behaviour ending there. I appreciate he can't intervene in her life- she's married- but I do hold a bit of a grudge that he chose to be with her, then got to leave- I don't have that privilege. and he never asks how it is- he's washed his hands.
And thanks for the wake-up call re my kids. I've been so determined not to do to them what was done to me that I may have taken it to extremes! They're 18 and almost 16 and I'm sure capable of understanding aspects of this- without me going too deep. I get what you're saying that the experience will potentially be the same for them- horrible thought though that is I can arm them for it!!

And thanks everyone for reminding me about the out of the fog website.

@IDontHateRainbows agree

@ElderlyMotherTrouble we are not saying that you cannot post about your mother or ask for support! She does sound like a really horrible woman and I can understand why you are looking for empathy and support, which you clearly deserve. But, you are listing a whole load of nasty characteristics and coming up with Borderline Personality Disorder! You are equating nasty person with borderline personality disorder. You are equating manipulative, hysterical, toxic etc etc with bpd! Therefore you are spreading harmful stereotypes and myths. That is what is so wrong about your post. It is not 'the be kind brigade'. It is cruel and offensive to people who have that genuine mental health condition. I am not suggesting that you don't see empathy. Can you not understand that. Im sorry but you are coming across as incredibly ignorant. I wish you well with your mother and I genuinely hope you get the support that you deserve.