Could being undiagnosed ASD lead to narcissism?

[Purplejumper9]

I’m just wondering about my partner mum. Our child is in ASD diagnosis and I’m sure my partner is undiagnosed.

My partners mum appears very narcissistic. She avoids me like the plague and has no interest in being around for support for any occasion, birth of children, illness etc. She will happily parade her other child’s family around and there is no ND issues with those. But she won’t actually help them. The son really seems to want her love. She will make nice comments on SM but in really life she hasn’t seen our children for a long time. She just has no interest in supporting them and loving them. She always has to be the head of things, like all the local committees. She is seen in the community planting flowers and waving at elderly people but when it comes down to supporting her family she is nowhere.

Is it possible that someone could be ND without knowing and have developed a narcissistic type personality to cover the shame this brought. They discover being in control gets them attention and have lost all empathy. When standing in front of her and talking it feels like there is nothing inside her, she isn’t listening.

My partner loves his daughter also in his own way and you won’t hear him say love ever but you can feel it.

That's a shame for her. 'In his own way' is a cop out. Children need to be loved fully, to be told that, not this 'in dad's own way' crap.

But she knows she is loved despite the word not being spoken and she absolutely adores him. They rolling around on the floor together in hysterics, she’s only 2 and it’s so lovely.

Quote different at 2 than say at 10. She's hardly aware of much outside of herself now...but she could also grow to be okay with how it is still.

Also, your dh will probably adjust to being more vocal about his love if she needs it to feel his love - as you say he's a good parent so 'his way' may and should change even if slightly if it accommodates his daughter's more essesntial needs.

He doesn’t say it to me either but I know he does love me. If I asked him he would say it to me but his actions speak loud enough. I tell I her love her 1000 times a day because I’m outwardly loud lol.

Bless! Action definitely speaks better than words. 😊 As long as you're all happy and understanding of each other, I see no problem.

I think it’s more so she parades the other family around telling everyone how proud she is and how well they’ve done and how amazing the grandkids have turned out and when it comes to us absolutely nothing. Can she really be that accidentally horrible and not see how that feels to us. I feel totally pushed out and struggling. It doesn’t help that we are put against each other like this and not seen as different families but equally great and should be proud of us also.

I understand completely. Her behaviour feels like rejection and that would hurt anyone. It does not get much worse than being rejected by someone who should provide unconditional love and acceptance.
What I am trying to say is that you should explore feelings that her rejection brings up in you as that is the only way to help yourself feel better under the circumstances. You are aware that you cannot change her.

Well narcissism does develop, nobody is born a narc, but it isn’t a sudden change. Somebody’s culminative experiences cause it. It’s a personality disorder caused by abuse and adversity in early life.

Yes I don't actually like the way people casually dehumanise people with NPD. I get the anger and hurt (believe me, I've been there) but there is often an unbelievably terrible backstory. That doesn't mean it's 'safe' to allow someone with NPD to get close to you- in fact it's like inviting agony into your life - but that doesn't mean I can't have empathy - from a safe distance!

Of course it's hard to have empathy when we are enmeshed and being hurt which is why rock solid boundaries are so necessary.

I must be lucky so coming from an abusive background of a narc mother and the fact i have asd and adhd myself and not being narcissistic. Far bloody from from it. Some of us learn from our childhoods and I will never ever think a narcissist is being the person they are by accident of some sort.

OP your mother in law sounds like a textbook case but I wont comment again as I have asd/adhd and honestly the thoughts of someone feeling sorry for a spiteful nasty narcissist and implying they are on the spectrum sickens me to be honest. I would hate anyone to think I was a selfish spiteful bitch like my mother and she is not mentally unwell she is mentally depraved.

The trouble is, you can’t save them! You can have as much empathy as you like but they have no empathy for others. You can feel sorry for them when you think about how they became so messed up, but as you say, that’s not to say you should want them in your life or try to ‘fix’ them. It’s futile and soul destroying!

Of course you get some with NPD who haven’t necessarily been abused in the normal sense, they have just been way over indulged to believe they are more special than others, but it’s still to do with your environmental experiences. To suggest someone is ‘either a narcissist or they’re not’ like they were born that way is nonsense. For one thing, most people have a few traits that could be considered ‘narcissistic’ in a sense, it’s just that actual narcissistic traits are magnified and over inflated.

Some people do, just because you aren’t a narcissist, it doesn’t mean that growing up in an abusive environment doesn’t increase your chances of developing narcissism. Nobody is born with a mental health or personality disorder.

And I haven’t said I felt sorry for them or think you should have them in your life 🤣

OP, she might be Autistic she might not. But what stands out is the behaviours you describe really very much remind me of my NPD parent. And that is not used lightly; I've had years of counselling.

She's clearly bothering you intensely,and that's what they do. They deserve no god damn sympathy. I have sympathy for Neurodivergent people who are decent and not NPD. NPD people are not safe.

I grew up in a Narc family system. As I grew I could at times be a little bitchy I guess. In a relationship I was in, I wasn't really happy but I behaved in a way a bit like my mother. I have owned this, I've been in counselling, I'm a decent and empathic person. NPDs are vile and will blame everyone else always.

I'd personally keep a distance as much as was possible.

It’s like she has to be in control of whether she gives help or not.

Surely anyone is in control of whether they give help or not? You can’t force someone to help you.

Some people are born with npd, some develop npd due to life stories. Not everyone with npd has a terrible backstory.

Who is born with NPD? You can be born with an increased risk of development due to your temperament or genes, but nurture matters.

For one thing, you can’t even be diagnosed with any personality disorder until you are an adult, and environmental influences have an impact on all behaviour.

That you can't be diagnosed in childhood doesn't mean you don't have it. Yes I agree nurture also plays a part - but nature does too.

Nurture can play a part in how someone born with it can manifest/handle/manage it. It doesn't have to be labelled npd for it to manifest itself so adults and life circumstances play a part in how they raise a child - whether they have npd or not, like any other disorder.

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

The point is, you can’t be diagnosed as a child because behaviour can change and because no one is diagnosed then, you cannot proclaim somebody is born with NPD.

Personality disorders develop via an interaction between genetic and temperamental factors and environment. You need more than one influence. Therefore, nobody can be born narcissistic and nobody can claim differently.

It’s not ALWAYS abuse, somebody can be over indulged and over praised to believe they are special or ‘chosen’, but a lot of the time it’s some kind of abuse that interacts with the other influences.

I don’t believe you are born with it at all. I think it definitely needs to developed in relation to external events. I’m really unsure about inheriting it also. Maybe traits of the personality but not full blown. I just get the feeling that the loss of the mum at around age 7 when ASD starts to present and having no support really could have led to very negative coping mechanisms. The dad said she was silent as a young child, she would just sit and watch everyone then one day just decided she wanted to be the head of any local committee she could find. I don’t know but I think she is brilliant at reading what people need and then perhaps knowing what to keep back to hurt people also. It’s what keeps me back I’m not sure if she is unintentionally causing harm or she is trying to cause me harm.