Tips on dealing with a (low level) gaslighter

[Remmy123]

My husband who I have been with for 20 odd years over the past few years has changed.

everyone thinks he is great he is very sociable helpful etc but he isn't to me

he calls me a gaslighter but below is a scenario of many:

last night sitting with our children having dinner. Husband has been working on a v stressful project (made him v touchy stressed)

he said 'right who is going to ask me about my day? I started the first phase of the project'

i say ' thank god for that'

he says 'you are so rude'

I say that's not rude I mean it's been a long time coming. Tell me more

he reluctantly tells me more about this project - it's in IT so I've no fecking clue what it means (that annoys him)

kids leave the room I ask why he thought I was rude he says 'you said thank god for that you're just thinking about yourself because you say this project has made me like a different person' you only ask me more about the project because you realised you didn't sound nice then stormed up to our room. He also mimicked me in a completely different tone.

I followed and said that's your problem that you have created a whole different scenario based on 4 words I said. - he called me a gaslighter

the evening before I asked him how much he had on a c card because we had been paying £200 a month for 5 years - he got so defensive said I was controlling I'm also controlling because I look in the shopping bags when he comes home from Tesco

I am v organised and orderly and he isn't

last might he said 'oh you think you are such a saint don't you' I say well when have I ever called you names or flown of the handle and made up fake scenarios.

he then accused me of swearing at him in front of the kids in the past - I've never done this so I asked for an example and he said 'well you have' and stormed off. No examples given. I said I really think I'm losing my marbles because I can't remember can you please think of an example? I might have to see a doctor I'm worried about my memory. He said 'well maybe you do because you have'

I pulled him aside and said - don't you ever call me a gaslighter again because that is just what you have done to me that is a clear example of gaslighting.

i know everyone wiill say leave but at the moment it's financiallly hard I've got x3 kids

how do I deal with a gaslighter in the meantime.

im gutted I've ended up with someone like this.

Thanks

"Thank God for that" is 100% sarcastic. I never heard anyone say that and legit mean it in a positive way.

Then to be challenged on it and say you meant it in a positive way is disingenuous.

Him wanting to talk about his job is unfortunate. I don't think anyone likes to listen to people talk about their work life - if they don't work there, too. It's terms you don't know, people's names you don't know - it is meaningless blah blah.

We were having a family dinner and talking about my sons new friends in his class. Apparently I said his friends were weird, what I did was 'everyone is different'

that created a problem him convinced I said that. What he forgot was my mum was also at the dinner table and said i didn't say anything like that! Totally bizarre

I say it a lot though - my friend got the all clear for something medical and I said ' thank god for that'

I guess it's the tone and the way it's delivered - I didn't mean it to be sarcastic he should have taken my word for it that it wasn't my intention.

Just let it go,don't follow him around, that is goading him and escalating the problem. He's making it clear by walking away that he doesn't want to continue the conversation. Respect that.

If something further needs to be said (which it probably doesn't most of the time), then have a calm conversation later on when everyone has had some time out and you can focus on the actual issue not the emotion.

It sounds like you're following after him, escalating the issue, determined to have the last word. I would be livid if someone followed me around the house arguing with me when it was clear I needed time out. He is trying to de-escalate the situation by walking away, and you are escalating it by following around after him.

I totally get the impulse to stand up for yourself when he says things like this. It's a particularly bad trigger for me to be accused of something I haven't done. So I really do get how frustrating it is.

But you can't argue with someone like that. They don't want to hear your side of things. I know it's infuriating, but stay outwardly calm, say something like, "ok if you say so", and walk away.

It doesn't matter what he says. It doesn't change reality.

Does it really matter what label any of this is? You both need to talk without sniping at each other (from someone 20 years married and on the way to breaking up at the moment).

Thanks al i i do appreciate all comments

irs v rare I follow him to another room as it's pointless and I'm hurting myself - but even bringing it up calmly the next day / week whatever I'm met with the same response. Pointless.

It's hard to accept but yes some people are determined to misunderstand you no matter what you do. Even when you agonise over the right words and the right time, nothing gets through.

I have a phrase I said to myself to get through it when I was in a bad relationship - chuck it in the fuck it bucket.

Your first comment was a bit rude.
It then escalated. He is stressed.

It is. He accuses me of saying stuff I've never said.

He's paraphrasing you rather than quoting you verbatim. Not gaslighting.

"Everyone is different" is just a more polite way of saying some people are a bit weird.

You're splitting hairs.

I think part of the problem is that you.see him as the problem; he sees you as the problem and, currently, never the twain shall meet.

i do try and talk in a calm constructive way but he gets up and walks away all of the time I end up following him in to various different rooms it's pointless. He lacks empathy.

You think you are trying to speak in a calm and constructive way but it doesn't sound like he perceives it in that way. It's also a bit disingenuous to say you're 'calm'. That doesn't mean your communication is effective or that you're listening to him - either his verbal communication or his non verbal especially if you're following him to "various different rooms".

Given you take his paraphrasing/summarising of your words as 'gaslighting'. I'd say you're both contributing to the problem.

Eg I can't remember exactly what you said earlier. I'm not going to check but I'm going to say you're always irritated by him at the moment and that shows in your communication with him.

I know you didn't use the exact words, "I'm irritated by him all the time," but that's what I've remembered so I'm paraphrasing what you said. Not gaslighting you.

And finally, that's why I suggested inviting him to a conversation to make things better for both of you and asking him if now is a good time for him.

It wouldn't be fair to expect a conversation 'right now' because you'd be mentally prepared for it, and he wouldn't.

You both need to listen as much as speak.

And take on board what the other is saying.

I actually think this is probably where marriage counselling comes in because they can facilitate that if its not something your relationship can easily adapt to. And it might be hard because you've both become entrenched in your communication styles and so someone helping you recognise that might be helpful.

Of course, it might also be that he is deliberately 'misunderstanding' you but as this has only been the last couple of years out of two decades of marriage suggests that it is circumstantial and a habit that has developed rather than anything more sinister.

You both feel unheard. And that's a lonely place for anyone to be.

ok let's call it paraphrasing it happens all the time it's exhausting.

my son didn't want to go to a party he is in early years primary school. Every party unless it's sport he stands there with me saying he is bored. Doesn't join in.

one day he was going to a party but he said he didn't waht to go (there was a bouncy castle) plus we had just got back from holiday so tired. . So I said he didn't have too. Husband said he has to go (why?) I said but your not the one standing there with him saying he wants to leave / bored etc it's embarsssing. And that he never takes him to parties so doesn't know.

husband thought I had said 'you never take your son anywhere/ never take him out' got so defensive I said I didn't say that I said you never take him to parties. He said I didn't and I'm lying!

Thanks @GreyCarpet great advice and really much appreciated, you make lots of sense and it has made me see things from a different perspective

The fact it's such a frequent issue means you either get couples therapy and it gets dealt with or end the marriage.

It sounds like he is constantly looking for a reason to blame and criticise you. He wants the narrative that everything is you and your fault.

Has been already checked out of the marriage?

It sounds like he is gaslighting you. And it seems your first comment was rude and that you persist with arguments. You both sound unhappy and frustrated. I would see if you firstly want to make it better (both of you) and then seek support. Or decide to call it a day. Right now it's not working.

It does sound like he's paraphrasing. And then he seems to be adding his own interpretation/emphasis. So I don't think he's "wrong". In all the examples you've given, I think you did say an approximation of what he said you said. It's just that he's adding his own (defensive) interpretation to it.

I think you both have different (poor) communication styles.

You clearly seem to have an obsession with "winning" an argument and being right.

He seems defensive.

I really think you need to accept that you are as much of a problem as he is (it comes across in your posts that you feel you're entirely right and only he is the problem). It shouldn't be you against him. You should both be on the same team.

Then, I agree with a ppl that marriage counselling with facilitated communication would be useful. But this will only work if you can see your part in this and realise that you both need to make changes.

I do too. He sounds very stressed and you antagonised him.

Yes I do get the blame for things - my son failed year 10 exams and it was my fault. I got him a tutor and did what I could.

my best friend said he has always been like this when stressed but I am also stressed I don't pick holes in everything. My dad is v poorly in a care home for example and he couldn't be less sympathetic right now.

i probably am not helping things but I think I feel so resentful he isn't making me want to hug him if he is stressed and help with that.

i get the blame for many things - my kids don't like going for walks (we also have teens) That's my fault too, because I don't make them.

I'm not convinced it is your fault from the sound of things.

my son failed year 10 exams and it was my fault

This for example. That's not your fault.

This isn't 'low level' gaslighting, it is full on abusive behaviour. He is extremely nasty and confrontational towards you.

He calls you controlling and a gaslighter. Look up DARVO. It is a common trick of abusers like him to turn things around to try and make you feel that you are the abusive one. You're not.

This is how I've read it tbh.

Thanks @GreyCarpet great advice and really much appreciated, you make lots of sense and it has made me see things from a different perspective

I did something similar to the conversation I suggested with my ex husband when we first separated following a huge row on the driveway (our first and only ever!)

I decided I had a choice to try and create a positive co-parenting relationship with him or the next however many years would be the hell of one of us always trying to 'win' and pre-empt the other other.

Anyway, he was really relieved and thanked me saying he'd wanted to achieve similar but hadn't known how to bring it up or what to say.

It's always worth a go.

If he isn't interested and it doesn't work then you have your answer.

Some people aren't equipped with the tools to communicate effectively and don'trealise whenn they are antagonising situations. On both sides.

If he is abusive, he won't want to resolve it because he will have the situation he has intentionally created.

I don't think anyone can say anyone is 'definitely' anything or 'extremely' anything. Sometimes people fall into dysfunctional patterns of behaviour that can be corrected.

It sounds like you have very different communication styles.These are exacerbated at times of stress. DH and I do. Poles apart. DH grew up in a Northern family not used to making a show of emotions. If you give them a present they really like, or spend hours cooking their favourite meal they will say, 'That's nice,' nothing more.

I grew up in a very neurotic family where you always had to decode the subtext of what your parents were saying to ensure they didn't fly into a rage. If I gave my father a present or cooked him a meal and he said, 'That's nice,' it would mean he hated it, he felt in some weird way affronted by the gift or the food and a big bad mood would be brewing imminently. So I'd 'hear' what lay beneath the actual words, not the words at face value.

I wonder if your DH was raised in a family where there was always a subtext? It leads to really disordered thinking. And lots of the examples you give are classic disordered thinking (e.g. assuming when you mention one thing (not taking child to parties) he extrapolates from that that you mean all things at all times. That's not gaslighting but it is classic disordered thinking. What you have to realise is - he truly believes you said it, because that is truly what he heard. I found CBT so helpful. It made me learn to accept that if someone said something, that was usually what they meant, there wasn't a massive catastrophising inference to be found in it.

Thanks for your reply.

he comes from a family of Irish catholics - his mother is very opinionated and controlling. They never opened up about thier feelings, he pretends he goes to church to keep her happy etc a stiff upper lip at all times etc - I do think this is half his battle

i wouid like him just to to take my word for it, if I didn't mean it in that way then that's the fact of it. Not start stomping and sulking.

I've had lots of family issues and big problems , he has been in a bubble where everything is perfect no worries like parents divorcing etc

I was in a household with an abusive alcoholic father to my mum always huge arguments me feeling unsafe and insecure

I really thought I'd married a good egg but I feel similar to how I felt as a child.

also should have mentioned in my original post that he struggles to communicate without saying shut up / fuck off / or storming off