DH interpretation of feminism

[WildGeece]

I'd like some third party input on a regular point of contention between DH and I.

DH believes that the most feminist thing a husband can do for his wife is to let her have her way. By this, I mean if there is a choice to be made, the female partner's preference should be the default. This can be anything from what activity to do of an evening to decisions like whether to move house or not. He argues that it is unfeminist for a male in a straight relationship to ask for a preference because they would be exerting power over their female partner.

This becomes problematic for us because he will often agree to do things he doesn't like, doesn't want to do and/or doesn't agree with, and it makes making big decisions where there is a difference of opinion very difficult, because he won't say what he thinks or wants. I really value collaboration, and see that as a truly feminist way of relating to each other (i.e both parties have an equal say, decisions are negotiated), and hate the idea of him being miserable. It shuts down any discussions and contributes to discord in our relationship.

I have told him loads of times that he has a twisted interpretation of feminism and that what he believes simply isn't true, but he can't see it.

For context, our relationship is not abusive or coercive, and he would absolutely never behave in such a way.

He would hate for me to ask friends and family their take on this.

So, good feminists of Mumsnet, what do you think? Is this really feminism? Please help me persuade my DH to express preferences!

If he thinks expressing any preference is 'exerting power', then he thinks his view is automatically dominant. And that you are not his equal.

That's not feminist.

Equality. Therefore both of your views are equally valid, which is where compromise comes in.

He's being spineless. When you make a decision, you're accountable for that decision and he doesn't want to be. He's giving you wife work and shirking his responsibility.

He can then grumble about how he didn't want to do it in the first place. He's being lazy.

Of course that's not feminist. He obviously doesn't know what feminist means.

Feminism is a political analysis and practice relating to the material reality of women and girls. Not a method for organising relationships.

This is a relationship issue, not a FWR issue.

That is definitely not feminism. In fact I would argue it is anti-feminist.

if he wants to be a good feminist spouse, then taking some of the mental load from his wife is the very first thing he can do. That means taking over some routine tasks and simply making the decisions to get them accomplished.

Why would he hate you to talk to family/friends about it? Is it because it's ridiculous and he'd look like a twat?

He argues that it is unfeminist for a male in a straight relationship to ask for a preference because they would be exerting power over their female partner.

It sounds like he (maybe even subconsciously) thinks that if he had an equal discussion with you about preferences, his preference would win (presumably 'because he's a man and therefore dominant'). If that's what he thinks, then he's a sexist, not a feminist ally. If it's not what he thinks, then why on earth would he think that coming to an agreement over preferences would constitute him 'exerting power'?

He either hasn't thought this through, or he knows exactly what he's doing and thinks he's fooling you into thinking he considers you his equal.

OP, you know that's not feminism (or any 'ism). It's just a cop out. He's being mentally bone idle and letting you ultimately take the flak when things go wrong or for anything he doesn't like. He doesn't "see it" because it's easier for him to carry on as he is. Don't buy his bullshit. He's actually patronising you big time by disguising his laziness as feminism - and he's being a prick.

You have said everything I was thinking! Agree 100%

For context, our relationship is not abusive or coercive,

Coercive control refers to continuous patterns of behaviour that are intended to exert power or control over a survivor. These behaviours deprive survivors of their independence and can make them feel isolated or scared.

He would hate for me to ask friends and family their take on this.

It shuts down any discussions and contributes to discord in our relationship.

As pp have said. He's refusing to take responsibility for decisions as well as quietly saying his word has more power than yours. He is forcing you to make decisions which is coercive. This is most definitely a Relationship board thread, not a FWR thread.

I have told him loads of times that he has a twisted interpretation of feminism and that what he believes simply isn't true, but he can't see it.

But in his own view of feminism, he would have to listen and defer to your opinion on this?

A man settling his female partner with all the mental load, mansplaining feminism to her and acting as though she is incapable of dicussing different opinions with him; is anything but feminist. In fact, his behavior and attitude towards women is quite sexist.

@FKAT @PurpleSparkledPixie Fair enough - I wasn't thinking of my post that way, but I'll see about getting it moved to Relationships.

He is intensely private. I do discuss our relationship with friends but would never tell him the details so asking their opinions on this and reporting back would go down like a lead balloon.

He's hyper vigilant about any accusations (either within or outwith our relationship) of coercion that he has decided this is the only reasonable response (he was this way inclined because of his own and my parent's relationships, think MeToo made it worse). Rather than thinking men are actually dominant, he is hyper aware that men have dominated women historically and sees this as a way to address this.

Rather than thinking men are actually dominant, he is hyper aware that men have dominated women historically and sees this as a way to address this.

At least, that's what he's told you. It doesn't matter what his reasons are, the fact is it places the burden on your shoulders and you don't want it.

Listening to and respecting a woman's needs is feminist. Considering a woman's point of view is feminist. Taking equal responsibility is feminist.

@Ponderingwindow @username44416 @ginasevern @HotCrossBunplease @PurpleSparkledPixie

Thanks for the points about mental load. I had never considered that.

I have pointed out before that if things aren't his decision, the responsibility all goes on me and he can't complain about it, but I'd forgotten about that recently. Thanks again.

So you're saying that he agrees with everything any woman, anywhere says? Does he work with women? If so, surely that stance compromises his job. I can't believe he is that paranoid (as a normal bloke and not someone famous) about accusations of coercive control or that the MeToo movement has affected his life to such an extent. To be honest I still think he's using it as a total cop out, but if I'm wrong then he needs psychiatric help because this is a ridiculous way to live.

Asking for a preference and then coming to an agreement is not exerting power.

He is exerting his power over you though, by refusing to co-operate or take any decisions, and by insisting that you do all of it.

Hoist with his own petard.

Emotional labour is labour. Making decisions is emotional labour. Offering his view and deciding together is equality. Opting out of making decisions is a cop-out.

He works with women. I believe from what he says that he treads a (self-imposed) line whereby he behaves in a way where he thinks that there can be no accusations of male dominance whilst doing his job well. I know... ridiculous and stressful way to live that way.

You can post wherever you like, i think I was trying to get across that this is sexist rather than feminist, although I believe it's more than just sexist. Maybe more along the lines of emotional control - subtle manipulation and dismissiveness wrapped up in a big bow of disempowerment. I mean... he says you get to decide but I bet my last penny you tie yourself up in knots trying to think what HE would want as you want to be fair. You put his wants front and centre in every decision. Quite clever really.

Does he do his share of admin, housework and childcare? That’s the best arena for men to demonstrate their practical commitment to equality.

Why doesn't he (the great man bestowing his feminist ideals on those who haven't asked), ask you for your take on what feminism means? Why does his interpretation win out? Is it, perhaps, because he's a man?

This is weird.

He sounds like he needs to go to therapy to unpack this.

Is he usually a rigid thinker?