DH interpretation of feminism

[WildGeece]

I'd like some third party input on a regular point of contention between DH and I.

DH believes that the most feminist thing a husband can do for his wife is to let her have her way. By this, I mean if there is a choice to be made, the female partner's preference should be the default. This can be anything from what activity to do of an evening to decisions like whether to move house or not. He argues that it is unfeminist for a male in a straight relationship to ask for a preference because they would be exerting power over their female partner.

This becomes problematic for us because he will often agree to do things he doesn't like, doesn't want to do and/or doesn't agree with, and it makes making big decisions where there is a difference of opinion very difficult, because he won't say what he thinks or wants. I really value collaboration, and see that as a truly feminist way of relating to each other (i.e both parties have an equal say, decisions are negotiated), and hate the idea of him being miserable. It shuts down any discussions and contributes to discord in our relationship.

I have told him loads of times that he has a twisted interpretation of feminism and that what he believes simply isn't true, but he can't see it.

For context, our relationship is not abusive or coercive, and he would absolutely never behave in such a way.

He would hate for me to ask friends and family their take on this.

So, good feminists of Mumsnet, what do you think? Is this really feminism? Please help me persuade my DH to express preferences!

Incidentally, I have some experience of this with an ex.

When we split up I asked him what his supposed long-standing issues with our relationship were (turned out he was shagging someone else, but I didn't know that at the time). His answer was that he knew I was a feminist, so felt awkward about things like complimenting me when I made an effort with my appearance (as makeup is unfeminist, apparently) and second-guessing himself while having sex lest he objectify me.

All of that was from his own interpretation of what the statement 'I'm a feminist' meant TO HIM. He never asked me what I actually believe and why.

It's almost like mansplaining.

Stopped at use of the word 'let' her have her way. Implication is to me that he thinks the man is really in charge and grants permission? Maybe I'm reading it wrong

Yes. I have no complaints on this front.

Yes, he can be. I agree, have suggested. Of course, doesn't want to.

It really is on a par at letting you "win" at arm wrestling. It's insulting, patronising and not really that kind. It's belittling and letting you know things are not really that equal, he's far superior/stronger but "there, there, pats head, I am trying".

I don't think he will change so it's up to you to change your reaction to it. Maybe try some counselling yourself, especially if you are starting to feel it's marriage breaking despite you feeling it's a decent marriage in other ways.

I'd rather be married to an old school sexist than be treading on eggshells around this manipulative prick. I wonder what his female colleagues have to say about him.

No. Feminism is about equality. It's supposed to boost women in the context of women (as a class) having been historically oppressed by men (as a class). It doesn't mean women should be above men.

I can't agree with your DH at all and don't know what feminism has to do with his POV. I'd say you both need to be adults about making decisions. If you can't agree, is there a compromise to be had? Him just doing what you want sounds a bit lazy; also condescending to a degree. Would you really kick off if you didn't get your way? Is that what he's trying to avoid? And if he's miserable, his strategy hasn't worked.

If he insists on you doing all the mental labour you can't force him to take back his share, but you could at least reduce your workload by not trying to second guess what he want to to choose. Just pick what suits you. If he ends up doing things he doesn't want and being miserable, that's his problem - not yours.

So you are the head decision maker in the house because that is feminist
…unless your decision is that he should go to therapy
or your decision is that he should make a decision or collaborate on decisions with you
in which case he, a man will be there to tell you that you are incorrect and you should just listen to him because he is doing feminism correctly

I think it’s lazy as fuck. Very far from equality.

“Pumpkindoodles · Today 22:26
So you are the head decision maker in the house because that is feminist
…unless your decision is that he should go to therapy
or your decision is that he should make a decision or collaborate on decisions with you
in which case he, a man will be there to tell you that you are incorrect and you should just listen to him because he is doing feminism correctly”

This with bells on.

As other PPs have observed, his attitude is actually so sexist - he seems to assume that, if you and he were both involved in making a decision, then his view would inevitably prevail because he’s a man. Which tells you that, deep down, he sees women as “less than” men. He doesn’t want to stifle your intellectual firepower by exercising his. It’s so patronising. It’s the opposite of feminist.

My male view would be he's nuts, I'm not particularly up on feminist ideology, but surely the view is equality? So similar to defeating racism, it's not promoting one over the other, or disadvantageous to one party, either by gender or race etc, but achieving equality?

It's a cop out. He thinks woman want to trip him up and cause issues for him. He thinks it's best to not get in the arena as he doesn't trust woman to be reasonable, also lazy , superior and patronising.

Yeah, what PP have said.

So.... DH believes that the most feminist thing a husband can do for his wife is to let her have her way. By this, I mean if there is a choice to be made, the female partner's preference should be the default

You obviously need to firmly tell you it's your choice that you need him to behave as a true equal and partner.

I mean it's weird... he isn't respecting your (more sensible) views on what feminism is, he's exerting power by insisting on his cop-out version, by refusing your preference for him to be collaborative!

Holiday planning, meal planning, activity planning, kids school choices - all yours OP! Your opinion must be centred! So feminist!

Going to therapy, sharing the mental load of the above dross... Mysteriously manages to centre his own big fat NO. Gets defensive if it's suggested he's being unfair.

The disconnect is quite something.

his view is patronising.

@NoBinturongsHereMate Yes, this is a good point - when feeling mentally good, I have done this, but I don't always. I think others points about second guessing is bang on - I do this as well.😕

Thanks all for your replies - really good food for thought for me to and perspectives I hadn't considered, and I will be acting on them soon.

I do however think there's a bit more nuance/complexity going on here - I really don't think that deep down he is sexist or thinks his male view is more important, he's just not thought it all through properly, can be (as someone stated) quite rigid in his thinking and paranoid/hyper-vigilant. He is quite an academic thinker so will respond, I think, to some of the counter points put forward in this thread, rather than me shouting "you're just wrong!" at him. Sigh.

I really don't think that deep down he is sexist or thinks his male view is more important, he's just not thought it all through properly, can be (as someone stated) quite rigid in his thinking and paranoid/hyper-vigilant. He is quite an academic thinker

He can’t be that academic a thinker if he’s not thought it through but is ready to pin his whole professional and marital relationships on the philosophy, even when it sounds like it’s causing conflict in your relationship. He’s ignoring you expressing frustration and he’s still not thought it through for a few minutes, that would piss me off. Hope if he’s genuinely a good dh he sees sense after a discussion

Hi OP, my DH does this too (refuses to make decisions) and it's exhausting. It shows up worst during leisure time and family outings. We recently did a trial separation and I realised that if I have to decide, then that means I can choose... I organised a family trip to the water park and he's been a lot more proactive since then (he hates swimming pools). If he has preferences, it's on him to comunicate them - once I stopped trying to be detective and figure out what he wanted, I realised it wasn't too bad at all. Although I admit he doesn't leave me major life decisions. Hope you manage to get through to him though, it's not fair for you to be responsible for everything xx

Also, having to organise your own anniversary dinner is rubbish.