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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me. Father refusing to bring daughter home

289 replies

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 01:48

Hello everyone,

I have NC to protect my identity.

I know it is too early to post at this time. But I haven't been sleeping nor eating for a couple of days. My abusive ex is making excuses not to return our daughter back home and I don't know what to do.

To begin. I have a daughter who is 13 and has additionally needs. I have been the primary carer for my daughter since she's been born whilst her father was in and out of her life and due to the abuse, was encouraged to see our daughter through supervised contact but he refused.

Two years ago, he reappeared and requested to be involved in our daughter's life. But has caused nothing but trouble. He proclaims that he wants to see his daughter but I feel this is more about him reclaiming his control. So many episodes have happened (he has an indefinite restraining order in place). He has been stalking me, been outside our flat on numerous occasions, came to my daughter school to attempt to take her and sundew had a big scuffle with the teachers who stopped him, One day my daughter saw him on the way to school and she went out with him and by the time I found out, he then began to refuse to bring her back, we rang the police, we were searching up and down past 1am until my mother convinced him to bring her back. He proclaimed that he wanted to see his daughter and I was refusing and wanted us to sort out the matter. I did not. I was hoping he would soon begin to lose interest but I wished I took this as a sign to take this to court. As you can see, he has been breaching the restraining order over and over again.

Fast forward to last week, my daughter and I have been staying at my family's house during the summer break as we are renovating our flat. My cousin and my ex get along very very well and in the past, when my daughter will spend weekends at my family's house, my ex will contact my cousin to get through to my daughter and they will have telephone conversations. I didn't think this was weird and was slightly relieved so didn't take an issue with this. But then my ex would give my cousin stuff to give to my daughter that he bought for her- but I was unaware, to the point that my cousin would refuse to tell me what the dad got for my daughter as he would say "it is his business and he told me not to tell you".

Anyway, back to last week. So we have been staying at my family's house yada yada. My daughter went to see my cousin to ask him about something, whilst I was downstairs pottering around. Then all of a sudden, I just heard a bang- like a door has been shut and footsteps hurrying out. I immediately went to look out of the door, but saw nothing, I then went to look out of the window to see who went out of the house, nothing, I then went upstairs to check on my daughter, but despite calling her name, she was not answering and I couldn't see my cousin. I immediately called my cousin but he was not picking up my calls. Then, I just knew that my cousin took my daughter to her father's house. I called my sister, my ex's family, and they confirmed that they were able to get through to the dad and my cousin and confirmed that my daughter was at their father's.

I have called my ex on numerous occasions to bring my daughter home. But he is refusing. He says that this is all "my fault" and that I should have made an agreement to allow him to see her and that he would only return her if an agreement was put in place or he would keep a hold of her and wait for the court to ask him to return her back. My family have been pleading with him to return our daughter back and he would then make promises that he will return her on such and such day, but makes an excuse not to bring her. He is asking to see his daughter, unsupervised, one day a week during term day and to have her for half of the holidays. But I have told him that due to his unpredictable behaviour and the fact we can't co parent and that he doesn't know my daughter very well. We need to take it step by step and have something in writing. But he is refusing.

I have had to cancel all my daughter's doctor's appointments because she is not back. I have spoken to her on the phone and she seems okay. But she doesn't know where she is and would not tell me as her father tells her not to say anything. Her father has now agreed to give her back tomorrow as she has an appointment then but now he is asking for proof of this as he has enjoyed spending time with her and does not want her to come back. Now I am up worried that this will be another excuse not to bring her home.

What do I do? I know she is 13- soon to be 14 and that she is a teen and wants to see her father and can technically just go and see her father whenever she wants without my permission. But her father's behaviour is so unpredictable, where it compromises my safety. My cousin is ignoring my calls and is refusing to tell me the father's address. I am just distraught. I have brought her up as a single parent for the past 13 years. We have a holiday booked but I don't know if I have to cancel that one. I am just broken and don't know what to do.

OP posts:
seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:46

Sorry everyone.

I have been making calls to solicitors and I'm down at the police station. I have spoken to the police briefly but judging from what they have told me so far, I don't think they will be able to help me.

OP posts:
PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 13:48

SaveMeFromMyBoobs · 20/08/2024 13:43

Depends on the appointments. OP hasn't made it clear. Obviously a vaccination for example easily rearranged.

But what if it was chemotherapy for cancer? Transfusion for sickle cell? Dialysis for kidney disease? Airway clearance physiotherapy for cystic fibrosis?

May not even be life/death such as referall for tonsils taken out. Can be waiting a solid year for an appointment. Not attending an appointment can push treatment back months.

He has selfishly refused to return for medical appointments with zero regard for his child's wellbeing. He isn't against the treatment, he'd rather keep her to himself in place of getting proper medical care for her established needs, as determined by a medical professional. Needs he has zero training in how to meet unlike OP.

Well yes, if it was chemotherapy then that would be serious and time sensitive and if I got a call about that I would absolutely recommend reporting to police as it might meet the threshold for police protection. However since the OP didn't mention anything like that I think it's safe to assume it's not a life and death situation, and therefore as I said it's not criminal neglect.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:49

DaringlyDizzy · 20/08/2024 13:13

How are things? Have you heard from him since?

No. My family have been trying to get through to him. But all he does is just talk at them and tell them why it's "unfair". There's no point.

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 20/08/2024 13:50

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 13:48

Well yes, if it was chemotherapy then that would be serious and time sensitive and if I got a call about that I would absolutely recommend reporting to police as it might meet the threshold for police protection. However since the OP didn't mention anything like that I think it's safe to assume it's not a life and death situation, and therefore as I said it's not criminal neglect.

It would still be considered neglect for SS purposes where the threshold is lower.

GreyCarpet · 20/08/2024 13:51

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:49

No. My family have been trying to get through to him. But all he does is just talk at them and tell them why it's "unfair". There's no point.

Edited as I'd missed your earlier update.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:52

@GreyCarpet

I wrote an update below. I have contacted the police and have been on the phone to solicitors all day.

OP posts:
GreyCarpet · 20/08/2024 13:52

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:46

Sorry everyone.

I have been making calls to solicitors and I'm down at the police station. I have spoken to the police briefly but judging from what they have told me so far, I don't think they will be able to help me.

They might not be able to help you but have they been able to give you any advice?

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 13:53

@GreyCarpet

They've said they will make enquires and get back to me. I'm currently waiting for an update.

OP posts:
tolerable · 20/08/2024 13:55

will socil service do a welfare check?you have valid concerns here,if hes crying on phone at sister and repeatedly missing aarranged drop offs they surrely obliged to check in(esp with his previous)are womans aid supporting you.?how?
you and daughter are not sfe living in home with idiot cousin.this is infuriating and i really do know your pain.x

tolerable · 20/08/2024 13:57

has qnyone suggested to smrty arse cousin-go bring her home?

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 13:58

GreyCarpet · 20/08/2024 13:50

It would still be considered neglect for SS purposes where the threshold is lower.

No it wouldn't, as the mother needs to apply to court and that's all that needs to happen right now. It's not going to assist anyone for social services to get involved at this stage. If the DD ended up staying with the father then you'd be right, it would probably warrant an assessment if he continues to miss appointments.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 20/08/2024 13:58

@seethesunflowers what have your parents done about your cousin? have they thrown him out yet or have they forgiven him??????

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 14:00

tolerable · 20/08/2024 13:55

will socil service do a welfare check?you have valid concerns here,if hes crying on phone at sister and repeatedly missing aarranged drop offs they surrely obliged to check in(esp with his previous)are womans aid supporting you.?how?
you and daughter are not sfe living in home with idiot cousin.this is infuriating and i really do know your pain.x

No they aren't obliged to do a welfare check. They can't insist on seeing a child if the parent doesn't consent and they aren't an emergency response service - if you need a welfare check and it meets the criteria for one then police are the agency to carry it out.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:01

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 20/08/2024 13:58

@seethesunflowers what have your parents done about your cousin? have they thrown him out yet or have they forgiven him??????

No. Of course not. My parents are too soft.

OP posts:
GeorgesMarvelousCalpol · 20/08/2024 14:03

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 20/08/2024 13:58

@seethesunflowers what have your parents done about your cousin? have they thrown him out yet or have they forgiven him??????

I think this is a very valid question. In fact, why haven't your parents kicked your cousin out before as s/he seems to be interfering in the relationship for quite a while - given what you've said, it's likely this was foreseeable.

tolerable · 20/08/2024 14:03

@PeriIsKickingMyButt -ah thankyou-so can police do one.?

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 14:09

tolerable · 20/08/2024 14:03

@PeriIsKickingMyButt -ah thankyou-so can police do one.?

OP can request one, but they will only agree to do it if they agree based on what she said that they think it's needed. And if they do visit they are very very unlikely to take the DD away with them unless she's being visibly harmed or discloses harm to them.

Allthegoodnamesaretaken92 · 20/08/2024 14:11

SaveMeFromMyBoobs · 20/08/2024 13:43

Depends on the appointments. OP hasn't made it clear. Obviously a vaccination for example easily rearranged.

But what if it was chemotherapy for cancer? Transfusion for sickle cell? Dialysis for kidney disease? Airway clearance physiotherapy for cystic fibrosis?

May not even be life/death such as referall for tonsils taken out. Can be waiting a solid year for an appointment. Not attending an appointment can push treatment back months.

He has selfishly refused to return for medical appointments with zero regard for his child's wellbeing. He isn't against the treatment, he'd rather keep her to himself in place of getting proper medical care for her established needs, as determined by a medical professional. Needs he has zero training in how to meet unlike OP.

As a parent he can refuse any and all
medical treatment for his child.

for example jehovahs witnesses can refuse a blood transfusion, even if it means the child might die.

in that case again it would still be a case for the courts to decide what is in the child’s best interest, if it seems the parent isn’t. Social services/hospital will apply for a court order to remove guardianship.

it still will not involve the police flying in and yanking the child without that court order.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:19

Nope. Social services cannot do anything.

OP posts:
PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 14:19

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:19

Nope. Social services cannot do anything.

Have you sent the application to court yet?

altmember · 20/08/2024 14:53

PeriIsKickingMyButt · 20/08/2024 11:14

You want social services to be involved when you go to family court and you want them to do the section 7 report, they'll be much more likely than cafcass to advise no unsupervised contact with the father.

this isn't how it works. If you don't already have an open case with social services they won't get allocated the section 7. Cafcass do all section 7s for cases that aren't already open to children's services and if you make a referral specifically around court and contact children's services will direct it back to cafcass as they won't voluntarily take on work that they don't need to.

However I do agree with you that children's social workers in frontline services are better at assessing risk in general than cafcass social workers.

I would like to think that there's enough concern in this case for ss to open a case right now, especially given the history of offences?. At least while this vulnerable 13 year old girl remains in 'the care of' her semi estranged father. As soon as the girl is returned to her mother the immediate risk/concern should cease, so probably too late to alert ss then.

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:55

Should I ask for a notice without hearing?

OP posts:
seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:56

I am currently filling out the application.

I have just spoken with the police. As many of the PP's mentioned, there is nothing that the police can do. Although he has technically broken the order, there is no child arrangement order in place and hence they cannot do anything.

OP posts:
InkyPinkyPonky24 · 20/08/2024 16:05

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:55

Should I ask for a notice without hearing?

I would ask with a without notice urgent hearing to be heard within 48 hours. No guarantee it will be granted but asking won't do you any harm.

InkyPinkyPonky24 · 20/08/2024 16:06

seethesunflowers · 20/08/2024 14:56

I am currently filling out the application.

I have just spoken with the police. As many of the PP's mentioned, there is nothing that the police can do. Although he has technically broken the order, there is no child arrangement order in place and hence they cannot do anything.

Yeah it's a bit rubbish but with the child contact being a civil matter, they can't get involved unless something criminal was happening or unless there was a specific removal order from the court.