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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Difficult Mother/Family Crisis

50 replies

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 17:32

Just need to get things off my chest and vent before I go mad!

My elderly DM (81) has always been a difficult person. I (F49) have a mother that complains, is negative about most things and likes everything to be about her. We have had some arguments over this and her behaviour in the past. She can be controlling and manipulative at times. She is also lonely but only really wants me, full of anxiety and frustration that she can’t do what she did in her younger days. She can’t make any decisions for herself and lacks confidence. Whilst I try to understand these emotions and offer advice and help, she rarely does anything to improve her situation. She has no social interactions but this is at her choosing. She is independent and lives alone and just has some aging medical issues.
My DD and DM are divorced after 30 years. They are amicable but don’t see each other very often. DD likes it this way! Mum tries to control him under the disguise of helping but he prefers life without her company. Of course, she doesn’t know this! Dad is completely different to my DM and easy to get along with.

DD has been in hospital for over 3 months. Many times in and out of ICU due to a fall and severe brain bleed. He is very poorly. I am their only child. I have been on the biggest emotional rollercoaster ride in my life and I am still trying to navigate it even though DD is out of ICU and showing signs of recovery. It’s a changeable situation I

So my rant is this…………it’s long!!!

DM accompanied me to the hospital, everyday in the beginning. She said it was to be there for me but her behaviour was so difficult to deal with. She kept referring to herself as my DD’s “best friend” to everyone which is not true at all! It was because she didn’t want to say “ex.wife”. She thought the consultants would wonder why she was at the hospital. My DD was critical and we were talking about ending his life and it was still about her and what people thought about her!

She kept saying that there was no real hope for him, negative talk in such emotional circumstances. She talked over the top of the consultants all the time in very sensitive discussions, to the point when I had to ask her to allow me to listen (then she got upset with me). When DD became more alert, she talked about how ill she had been, showed him burns on her hands front the oven and talked at him non-stop. My DD had delirium and he would get frustrated with her as it must feel overwhelming and she would cry and tell me she wasn’t visiting anymore.

A number of times she said the nurses weren’t looking after him. I had no complaints at all❤️ and was visiting every day. She kept saying they were just standing around chatting. She didn’t agree with this or that. I told her to speak to someone in charge if this is how she felt so she called them and messaged me with the whole sorry story. I was so embarrassed so just said “at least you got it off your chest”.
On a visit to ICU in the beginning, she even told me, walking down the core to the room, that she knows it’s not just me in my DD will!!! What a time to mention it!! (She was referring to my half brother being included in it and this pleased her no end)

Even after one gruelling hospital visit, leaving numb and upset, she still wanted me to take her to the supermarket for her shopping! Despite my half brother visiting her 1 day before and having done her some shopping.

My half brother lives 3 hours away. He visits once/twice a year. We don’t get on. He is just like DM. He told me he didn’t want anything to do with me because I didn’t answer a text message he sent me. He uses a platform that I don’t use. I downloaded it but changed phones and hadn’t set it back up straight away. His messages were not urgent and he has my telephone number. He proper went to town on me and I took the opportunity to give him what he wanted and walked away, relieved. My DD and my DH all agreed that it was best. My DD and my half brother don’t get on because my step brother brought a lot of trouble to the family when he was younger. He has never worked and did nothing to contribute. My DM always made excuses for his behaviour.

DM likes to tell me that my 1/2 B has asked about my DD and hopes he is okay. I shouldn’t forget that he was in his life since he was 7 years old. I don’t know why she feels she has to say this. He has not once picked the phone up to tell me himself. How can someone just standby and not reach out to offer kind words of support regardless of what has happened. It’s not like he stopped speaking to me over anything remotely serious! Just when you think a crisis can bring people together, it just drives them further apart.

All of this has built up…. I have not been anywhere with my DH and DD (12). I decided to have a break and we went on a night away and had the best time. When I got back I sent a quick message to DM saying we were back safe and had a good time. No response which is unlike her. Usually she is messaging me often . I know my DM and so messaged her the next day to test the water as I could feel she was giving me the cold shoulder. The reply was cold, complaining that she hadn’t eaten well over the last few days. Every light hearted thing I typed was met with negative responses and complaints. She never once asked how we were or what we had done on our night away or asked about DD.
I can’t help but feel that she is missing the limelight and that because she isn’t getting all my attention, she feels jealous and angry. She told me she will only be visiting the hospital occasionally now as it too upsetting. I am fine with this but again, it’s all about her feelings. She really doesn’t care too much about mine. So I am sat here, overthinking, overwhelmed and tired of all this nonsense. My DD is going to need help possibly for the rest of his life. His life is different and so is mine. Why is my DM trying to make this harder? What should I do!

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 13/08/2024 17:46

Does your Dad actually want her to visit?

Presumably at the beginning he didn't have capacity to say one way or the other but possibly now he does?

I have had a few patients have their ex-wives visit while they were unwell and when they got better, all were furious the ex wife had been visiting.

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:05

@AnnaMagnani thanks for your reply.

He still doesn’t have capacity I am afraid. He was getting there very slowly but ended up back in ICU and has only been out a few weeks. I am not sure if he knows who she is but she is talking at him constantly and I don’t think he has the time to try and understand what she is saying. It is also only about her and it’s negative. He had little patience for her when he was well!

I have had to stop telling her everything about my DD as she turns this into a problem or a reason to be negative. He is due to have a PEG but I am holding off telling her. I can’t do with her negativity on top of everything else and I don’t want to talk about her “problems” at the moment.

OP posts:
Followtopic · 13/08/2024 19:11

Low contact I think - can she get to the hospital without you? I would give her no information about anything that she can be negative about and be cheerful and Teflon and keep any responses short.

the phrase “I’ll come back to you” is a good response if you want to buy yourself time to talk it over with your DH or give yourself some breathing time. Good that she’s not going to visit so much, she sounds so so painful. Try to give her very little reaction. Especially with the half brother stuff.

Knittedfairies2 · 13/08/2024 19:14

I think you're right that she's missing being the central attraction and doesn't like the attention being elsewhere. Stop telling her anything at all about your dad. Make sure you spend some more time with your husband and daughter too. I hope your dad continues to improve.

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:20

@Followtopic she doesn’t drive and it’s 2 buses to get to hospital. I think the novelty is wearing off now anyway. I honestly don’t think she was ever really supporting me. In her mind she was but I felt like I was dealing with my emotions and having to shoulder my DM too. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes you do have to support others but they didn’t speak very often. DM was constantly talking about herself and I do think she used the situation to feed her own selfishness. The only way I managed the whole situation was to pour it all out with my DH. He understands how my DM is and said she is possibly the most difficult person he has ever met!!! I just can’t get past my anger and frustration that she is making an already incredibly difficult situation all about her needs and emotions. I am very angry at the moment as I now seem to be getting the silent treatment and I can’t help but think it’s because I went away!!! I could be wrong I suppose.

OP posts:
SauviGone · 13/08/2024 19:21

If your dad doesn’t have capacity, then you need to advocate for him and the first thing to do is stop or limit the visits from his ex-wife and stop any discussions about his care and treatment taking place in front of her or with her involvement. It’s none of her business.

If nurses or consultants want a discussion she needs to be asked to leave (if she’s there).

From what you’ve described her visits sound distressing for your dad, you’re not even sure he knows who she is? So why are you facilitating this?

Do not take her with you. If she makes her own way there ask staff to limit her visit or even better, refuse her, turn her away.

DM likes to tell me that my 1/2 B has asked about my DD and hopes he is okay. I shouldn’t forget that he was in his life since he was 7 years old. I don’t know why she feels she has to say this.

My guess is that your 1/2 brother is not in your dads will and she’s building up to guilt trip you into sharing your inheritance with him if and when you get one.

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:27

@SauviGone thanks for this advice. It makes real sense.

My DD is not my half-brothers Dad. They never really got on. My DD is a generous man and he has put him in his Will. Unfortunately, he told my DM this and when my DM was in ICU she told me that she knew he was in the Will. I have no idea why she said it and it that set of circumstances! I shut the conversation down and told her I didn’t want to talk about it. This was just one of a number of very inappropriate and uncomfortable conversations.

OP posts:
bloodyeffinnora · 13/08/2024 19:35

Well she's not going to change now, she's 81, but at least she's said she won't be visiting so often now.
I agree low contact now as your dad will need you more.
What's wrong with your Dad leaving your half brother something in his will that's up to him.

SauviGone · 13/08/2024 19:37

Yes I understood that your 1/2 brother is your dads step-son.

Your dad may have told your mum he’d put his step-son in his will to shut your mum up, he may have changed his will since then, or your 1/2 brother may indeed be in the will.

Either way, it was an entirely inappropriate time and place for your mum to bring it up, she is a total crank and needs to be kept away from your dad. The only person who can make sure this happens is you.

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:44

@bloodyeffinnora oh no, there is nothing wrong with my DD leaving him anything. It’s his decision and I respect it. What I mean is that my DM decided to tell me she knew he was being left some inheritance as we were walking down the corridor to see DD in ICU. Why even talk about that. It is inappropriate and upsetting. That’s what I meant

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:50

@SauviGone she has always had a bee in her bonnet about it. My Dad adopted him you see and DM kept telling him that if he wasn’t in the Will, he could go and challenge it. What she didn’t know (and not that it was any of her business anyway) was that my DD had already spoken to be about it and wanted to leave something to him. DM was just trying to control the narrative once again. She wants her own way and she has used manipulation to get this in the past.

She was the same when I had my DD. Everything came with a condition attached. You want me to childmind, she will have to go to a nursery near me then. I went along with it then and I am still doing it now

OP posts:
DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont · 13/08/2024 20:39

So sorry you are going through all this at such a sensitive time

Clearly your DM is a narcissist
it's taken me over 60 years and several therapists to understand Narcissistic behaviour. Our DM’s are identical

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 20:45

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont would you be willing to give me some examples? I am sure you have felt the same but I wonder sometimes if it’s all in my head and I am going mad!

I have been looking at therapy but I am unsure.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 13/08/2024 20:51

DM accompanied me to the hospital, everyday in the beginning
Did you actually take her with you? If so, hopefully you realise with hindsight that this was a terrible, terrible idea.

She isn't related to him, has no right to see him or get involved with care decisions, and has caused nothing but trouble. If you didn't know she was going to make your father's illness all about her, you do now.

If you don't stop dancing to her tune so much you're in for a miserable life.

Fraaahnces · 13/08/2024 21:01

They are divorced and you are legally his next of kin. She is a difficult pain in the arse who is complicating his recovery. I think it best if you keep her and half bro away tbh. She sounds exhausting and honestly, predatory.

junebirthdaygirl · 13/08/2024 21:23

Totally not the point of the discussion but being PEG fed is a tremendous ordeal so think carefully before allowing your dad to go through it. Totally my own opinion after seeing my dm in her end days with Parkinsons.
Remember your mother may be going a bit senile so as much as possible expect nothing from her. She is not suddenly going to turn into the best mother at this stage of her life. Focus on your dear dad as he sounds very ill.

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 22:05

@junebirthdaygirl its more complicated than that unfortunately. DM has lost his ability to swallow so in order to prevent infection, which will possibly end his life, there is no option but to move to PEG. I appreciate it may have been different in your case. It’s a medical decision in order to protect his life.

As much as I like to think DM is senile, she is completely with it, just nasty.

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 22:10

@FictionalCharacter yes I did take her. I wasn’t really thinking at that point. Just in a state of shock for a long time and trying to get through each day. However, I should have know better. I think that’s where I struggle the most. The penny just doesn’t seem to drop. My DH has told me over and over that I need to ignore her, leave her alone etc.
It’s so hard because I start to feel really guilty, then wonder if it’s me, why does she bother me so much, what if I have regrets I can’t live with.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 14/08/2024 01:17

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 22:10

@FictionalCharacter yes I did take her. I wasn’t really thinking at that point. Just in a state of shock for a long time and trying to get through each day. However, I should have know better. I think that’s where I struggle the most. The penny just doesn’t seem to drop. My DH has told me over and over that I need to ignore her, leave her alone etc.
It’s so hard because I start to feel really guilty, then wonder if it’s me, why does she bother me so much, what if I have regrets I can’t live with.

Listen to your DH, he clearly sees through her. It's harder for you because she has you trapped by feelings of guilt and obligation towards her. I hope this thread has helped you to think about untangling yourself from her and her malice.

FictionalCharacter · 14/08/2024 01:22

BTW the only regret I had about distancing myself from my mother was that I didn't do it sooner and more completely. Some people on here love to say "she won't be here forever, you'll regret it when she's gone", but they're the ones with nice, normal mums. They have no idea what it's like having one like yours, and can't imagine how unbearable it is.

Dreamiesarecatcrack · 14/08/2024 02:25

I was always afraid to distance myself from my DM, she had brainwashed me very convincingly to think I relied on her for emotional support. It's only now I've cut contact that I realise I don't miss her 'support' at all, she only ever saw my problems through the lens of how they affected her and I was only ever providing support, not receiving it.

The truth of it is that I don't miss her and I don't feel guilty although I thought I would. The longer I'm away from her the more I realise how toxic and manipulative she is and tbh I'm too appalled and angry at the things she's done over the years to feel guilty, she deserves to be cut off.

I sometimes feel like I miss her, but it's the version of her I believed in before my blinkers came off and I saw her for who she really is I miss and that person never really existed. And I won't say that doesn't hurt and make me sad sometimes because it does but mostly I just feel relieved not to be stuck in her vortex of selfishness anymore.

It's late and I'm rambling but I'm trying to help you see that stepping away, or even just stepping back some, isn't necessarily going to make you feel bad and guilty, sometimes that distance is exactly what you need to be able to see things clearly. You must need every bit of your emotional energy to focus on your poor Dad right now, please don't let her push you to breaking point by making selfish demands on you when you have so much on your plate already Flowers

AnnaMagnani · 14/08/2024 06:14

I know the PEG is needed to save his life but is this a life your Dad would now want?
Is there any prospect of him improving physically or mentally? Would he be happy being alive but not 'himself'

DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont · 14/08/2024 08:25

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 20:45

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont would you be willing to give me some examples? I am sure you have felt the same but I wonder sometimes if it’s all in my head and I am going mad!

I have been looking at therapy but I am unsure.

Most of what you outline resonates with me on a deep level. It’s classic narcissistic behaviour.
it has to be all about them. They are the victim. They must be absolute centre of attention at all costs. They are selfish and self centred. No one’s feelings or needs out trump theirs.
you mentioned taking your mum shopping after the ordeal at the hospital.
heres my example
my DM wanted to accompany me to my oncology treatment, to help and assist me. Actually it was so she could become centre of attention. She made that appointment all about her. She became dizzy and unwell, they brought her water and fussed over her, they then brought her a wheelchair and pushed her through the hospital and car park to my car and helped her in.
I felt ill and weak, she insisted I stopped and bought her paracetamol whilst she sat in the car. Then she asked to go to an outlet store she’d seen something previously and now wanted to buy it. I felt too weak to fight her.
once inside she’s browsing all the rails, and piling stuff over my arm, I went cold and sweaty and must have passed out. When I came round she was telling the staff she had to be wheelchaired to the car etc etc how her vertigo makes her faint and unsteady etc etc
sorry this is long, I could go on and on and on. There will never be sympathy for anyone but themselves OP they can NOT be fixed, they don’t want a solution either. I learned this the hard way and via therapy.
happy to help further

Shoxfordian · 14/08/2024 08:30

There's a podcast called insight, exposing narcissism and a book called you're not the problem which you might find really helpful

Sorry to hear about your dad but it might be best to stop facilitating your Mum going to the hospital as its just causing you more stress

Escapingafter50years · 14/08/2024 09:07

What about you OP? Don't your needs matter? Your mother doesn't believe so, it's all about her, as noted by a previous poster.

But you do have the right to look after yourself and I agree with others that you need to distance yourself from this awful woman. She is probably damaged from whatever happened in her own childhood, but it's her responsibility to deal with this.

The Insight Exposing Narcissism podcasts as mentioned, are brilliant. If you have a look at the Stately Homes thread there are links to that and many other resources, as well as people who understand what you're going through.