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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Difficult Mother/Family Crisis

50 replies

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 17:32

Just need to get things off my chest and vent before I go mad!

My elderly DM (81) has always been a difficult person. I (F49) have a mother that complains, is negative about most things and likes everything to be about her. We have had some arguments over this and her behaviour in the past. She can be controlling and manipulative at times. She is also lonely but only really wants me, full of anxiety and frustration that she can’t do what she did in her younger days. She can’t make any decisions for herself and lacks confidence. Whilst I try to understand these emotions and offer advice and help, she rarely does anything to improve her situation. She has no social interactions but this is at her choosing. She is independent and lives alone and just has some aging medical issues.
My DD and DM are divorced after 30 years. They are amicable but don’t see each other very often. DD likes it this way! Mum tries to control him under the disguise of helping but he prefers life without her company. Of course, she doesn’t know this! Dad is completely different to my DM and easy to get along with.

DD has been in hospital for over 3 months. Many times in and out of ICU due to a fall and severe brain bleed. He is very poorly. I am their only child. I have been on the biggest emotional rollercoaster ride in my life and I am still trying to navigate it even though DD is out of ICU and showing signs of recovery. It’s a changeable situation I

So my rant is this…………it’s long!!!

DM accompanied me to the hospital, everyday in the beginning. She said it was to be there for me but her behaviour was so difficult to deal with. She kept referring to herself as my DD’s “best friend” to everyone which is not true at all! It was because she didn’t want to say “ex.wife”. She thought the consultants would wonder why she was at the hospital. My DD was critical and we were talking about ending his life and it was still about her and what people thought about her!

She kept saying that there was no real hope for him, negative talk in such emotional circumstances. She talked over the top of the consultants all the time in very sensitive discussions, to the point when I had to ask her to allow me to listen (then she got upset with me). When DD became more alert, she talked about how ill she had been, showed him burns on her hands front the oven and talked at him non-stop. My DD had delirium and he would get frustrated with her as it must feel overwhelming and she would cry and tell me she wasn’t visiting anymore.

A number of times she said the nurses weren’t looking after him. I had no complaints at all❤️ and was visiting every day. She kept saying they were just standing around chatting. She didn’t agree with this or that. I told her to speak to someone in charge if this is how she felt so she called them and messaged me with the whole sorry story. I was so embarrassed so just said “at least you got it off your chest”.
On a visit to ICU in the beginning, she even told me, walking down the core to the room, that she knows it’s not just me in my DD will!!! What a time to mention it!! (She was referring to my half brother being included in it and this pleased her no end)

Even after one gruelling hospital visit, leaving numb and upset, she still wanted me to take her to the supermarket for her shopping! Despite my half brother visiting her 1 day before and having done her some shopping.

My half brother lives 3 hours away. He visits once/twice a year. We don’t get on. He is just like DM. He told me he didn’t want anything to do with me because I didn’t answer a text message he sent me. He uses a platform that I don’t use. I downloaded it but changed phones and hadn’t set it back up straight away. His messages were not urgent and he has my telephone number. He proper went to town on me and I took the opportunity to give him what he wanted and walked away, relieved. My DD and my DH all agreed that it was best. My DD and my half brother don’t get on because my step brother brought a lot of trouble to the family when he was younger. He has never worked and did nothing to contribute. My DM always made excuses for his behaviour.

DM likes to tell me that my 1/2 B has asked about my DD and hopes he is okay. I shouldn’t forget that he was in his life since he was 7 years old. I don’t know why she feels she has to say this. He has not once picked the phone up to tell me himself. How can someone just standby and not reach out to offer kind words of support regardless of what has happened. It’s not like he stopped speaking to me over anything remotely serious! Just when you think a crisis can bring people together, it just drives them further apart.

All of this has built up…. I have not been anywhere with my DH and DD (12). I decided to have a break and we went on a night away and had the best time. When I got back I sent a quick message to DM saying we were back safe and had a good time. No response which is unlike her. Usually she is messaging me often . I know my DM and so messaged her the next day to test the water as I could feel she was giving me the cold shoulder. The reply was cold, complaining that she hadn’t eaten well over the last few days. Every light hearted thing I typed was met with negative responses and complaints. She never once asked how we were or what we had done on our night away or asked about DD.
I can’t help but feel that she is missing the limelight and that because she isn’t getting all my attention, she feels jealous and angry. She told me she will only be visiting the hospital occasionally now as it too upsetting. I am fine with this but again, it’s all about her feelings. She really doesn’t care too much about mine. So I am sat here, overthinking, overwhelmed and tired of all this nonsense. My DD is going to need help possibly for the rest of his life. His life is different and so is mine. Why is my DM trying to make this harder? What should I do!

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 09:13

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont this sounds very familiar to me!!

I have had a number of medical emergencies (!!!) with DM. She had pancreatitis some years ago. Had a flare up but kept having them and calling GP out who didn’t feel she needed any intervention or hospital treatment. I was having the family over at Easter for lunch. DM declined saying she was too ill but I went ahead with the lunch knowing there was no emergency. Half way through lunch she called me. She had phoned an ambulance and was in so much pain. I went to the hospital and was shocked to see her so well, laughing with the nurses. On the way out the consultant said to her “Remember, if you get a flare up again, you do not need to attend the hospital”!!!

When DD was little my DM looked after her. She told me she couldn’t do it anymore so I found a childminder who happened to have a slot free. DM was absolutely furious. She didn’t want it to happen that quickly. She wanted to stop after Christmas. I tried to explain that I may not be able to get childcare then. She called my DH some horrid names and she didn’t speak for weeks!

Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry you had to endure this too ❤️

OP posts:
Blackberriesandcobwebs · 14/08/2024 09:21

DM had a PEG put in for nutrition after a big stroke where she lost the ability to safely swallow, and it helped her slowly regain strength over several months. Whilst she never regained her speech, she had expressive aphasia and was able to enjoy her life for 5 years afterwards and see family and friends. It takes time, patience and good nursing care to recover. Wishing you and your DF well over the coming weeks.

Go LC with your DM, help find caring support for your DF and please don't forget to take time for yourself. It's too easy to run around putting out fires and overstretch yourself.

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 09:24

@Escapingafter50years my needs have never mattered.

This situation is not new to me, it’s been a problem for me for years. I have gotten angry and told her which was the worst thing to do. She got my half brother involved and I ended up the bad guy. She was better for a while but then all this happened with my DD and I am back in that place again.

I don’t know what it will take for me to finally and totally stop caring. I don’t want to be around her because of how it makes me feel. I don’t have these feelings when I am around anyone else. I feel uncomfortable, nervous and that I can’t be my true self. Always watching what I am saying.

Years ago, when my DD was 5 years old, we went on holiday for 2 weeks. Just before I went away DM was having some tests done (she is always having tests and always at the GP) Don’t get me wrong, some are necessary but you seem to know when it’s the attention seeking slipping in). Anyways, she called me the day before we were going and said she had the results and the GP had called her, at home, where she lives alone and said it was cancer. Well you can imagine how I felt. I was calling her whilst on holiday. Didn’t know if I should go away at all. Turns out the GP made a mistake!! When I told her we should challenge this, DM went quiet and wanted to forget about it!!!

OP posts:
ncgfryhfdg · 14/08/2024 09:29

As has already been said your DM had no right going to the hospital and interfering in your father’s treatment. If anything she’s only making him worse.
I understand you were upset and needed the support but you really shouldn’t have taken her there and should keep her away from now on, and stop discussing your father’s condition with her!
pull back and spend your time and energy on your DF, DH and DD. She’s not going to change so stop letting her control your life.

DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont · 14/08/2024 09:33

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 09:13

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont this sounds very familiar to me!!

I have had a number of medical emergencies (!!!) with DM. She had pancreatitis some years ago. Had a flare up but kept having them and calling GP out who didn’t feel she needed any intervention or hospital treatment. I was having the family over at Easter for lunch. DM declined saying she was too ill but I went ahead with the lunch knowing there was no emergency. Half way through lunch she called me. She had phoned an ambulance and was in so much pain. I went to the hospital and was shocked to see her so well, laughing with the nurses. On the way out the consultant said to her “Remember, if you get a flare up again, you do not need to attend the hospital”!!!

When DD was little my DM looked after her. She told me she couldn’t do it anymore so I found a childminder who happened to have a slot free. DM was absolutely furious. She didn’t want it to happen that quickly. She wanted to stop after Christmas. I tried to explain that I may not be able to get childcare then. She called my DH some horrid names and she didn’t speak for weeks!

Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry you had to endure this too ❤️

Thank you its so tough for us both

Also worth mentioning is the control element to this.
They go absolutely ballistic if they don’t get what they want when they want it or you dare to not do whatever they feel they need immediately. For instance if DM asks me to do something and im unable to drop everything immediately say for instance im working she will make sure im made to feel inadequate or that ive let her down and lie to family saying she had to get someone else to do this thing because i wouldn’t help her and let her down. Often part of the punishment is giving me the silent treatment for days!
She has caused so much trouble playing us siblings off against each other with viscous lies, that to this day 2 sisters have gone no contact with all 3 other siblings for over 20 years. Such a sad loss and we have absolutely no idea what she said to cause this as weve been blocked. Lost two sisters and all their children too. So very sad. the family is broken because of her need to be centre of attention and narcissistic behaviour.
I do feel for you OP

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 10:11

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont I do understand. I wonder what makes them like this. Not that knowing makes anything better. My DM lost her DD when she was 5 years old. Before that he was in the army and so she never really knew him. When he died, my grandma was devastated and never fully recovered. She was a cold lady and was never there emotionally. My DM sister is 8 years older and very head strong and a powerful force in the family. DM was meek, shy and not very sure of herself. Maybe the answer lies in her past somewhere.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2024 10:23

HerefortheKickz

Her own family did that to her; by your own admission you state her mother was cold and was never there emotionally. It certainly lies in her own past.

I have read all your posts and sadly knew what was coming even before I got to the end; your mother has and continues to make your dad's stay in hospital ALL ABOUT HER. She has behaved abysmally and similarly to my own mother in law when her H was in hospital. She could not give a fig about this man at all, let alone you as her daughter. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all. You're supposed to dance attendance to her and you took her along with you without thinking because of the Special Training. I would also think you're probably one of the last people who actually bother with her though she really is not worth bothering about. Its also not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking.

However, getting back to present day you need to become tired of being the last person who matters. Sadly for you, you have received the Special Training so common to adult children of narcissists whereby their needs are put first with your own dead last. She trained you from childhood to do this and its hard to break as she also installed the fear, obligation and guilt buttons in you. Therapy for you is a must do I would say and if you are a parent also, you need to keep your kids going forward.

Do look at Dr Ramani on Youtube and also read "Will I ever be good enough" by Karyl McBride. I would also suggest reading "Children of the Self Absorbed" by Nina W Brown. Do also consider posting on the current "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/08/2024 10:24

You need to keep yourself as well as your kids well away from your mother going forward.

H0l1dayPlanningPattern · 14/08/2024 10:34

Sorry to hear about your DFather

Do you have power of attorney for your DF ?
If not, it would be good to have this set up
Health & financial

DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont · 14/08/2024 10:38

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 10:11

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont I do understand. I wonder what makes them like this. Not that knowing makes anything better. My DM lost her DD when she was 5 years old. Before that he was in the army and so she never really knew him. When he died, my grandma was devastated and never fully recovered. She was a cold lady and was never there emotionally. My DM sister is 8 years older and very head strong and a powerful force in the family. DM was meek, shy and not very sure of herself. Maybe the answer lies in her past somewhere.

Absolutely can be linked to past trauma my DM was sexually abused by her step dads adult son as a child. Her mother was emotionally unavailable bordering on neglectful.
Narcissists often develop a sense of entitlement and a strong desire for control to protect themselves from further emotional pain.
They often develop an insatiable need for attention, praise, and positive reinforcement
They detach from their emotions to cope with overwhelming feelings like fear, guilt, or anger. This detachment can lead to a lack of empathy for others, which is a key characteristic of narcissism.
Hugs OP it’s a rough ride.

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 10:39

@H0l1dayPlanningPattern no he doesn’t and can’t make one as he has lost mental capacity. I can’t set this up on his behalf. I think it would now have to go through the courts.

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 14/08/2024 10:47

Your mother sounds like a nightmare and I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with her at such a painful time.

Only saying this because it's something to keep in mind in any financial/legal dealings you have to be involved in, but because your Dad adopted your half brother, he is effectively his oldest child by law. Step parent adoption severs ties to the birth parent and creates a new legal bond to the adopter. I think as others have said, getting a solid POA sorted as soon as your Dad is able to grant it is important.

Sending good wishes.

Uricon2 · 14/08/2024 10:47

Sorry, just seen your update. I think you should pursue the Court option.

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 11:48

@Uricon2 its not straight forward and believe me I have done the research. I can’t have POA as DD doesn’t have capacity. I have to apply to the court to become a deputy. This is at a cost of hundreds of pounds which I don’t have. If I am refused I also have to pay court fees. I don’t have this kind of money. DD has no property and any money he has, has been dealt with in his Will but DD is very much alive currently! I have access to his bank account as I have always dealt with his finances so I am not sure what being a deputy is going to get me?

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 19:56

So I went to visit DD today. He was confused but a little more lucid than usual.

I was talking to him about his siblings and showing him a book with their names in. Quite off the cuff he started talking about my DM. “She does nothing but go on and on. She is a bloody nuisance. She drives me mad”. I just replied “I know she does Dad”. Well I couldn’t believe it. Even in his poorly and confused state he still realises.

I laughed to myself about it all the way home!!!

OP posts:
Followtopic · 15/08/2024 15:31

This seems fortuitous - no one wants to see anyone who’s a bloody nuisance when they’re WELL - let alone in hospital. Let’s celebrate her silent treatment. It will give you all a break!

Hereforthekickz · 16/08/2024 13:48

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont @Followtopic
She is always a pain in the a**.
Since we went away on our overnight break she has been a little “quiet”. I was out at the shops the other day and asked if she had given any thoughts to her GD birthday gift. Her birthday is in the 25/08. I thought I could pick her something up as DM doesn’t drive and can’t get out far.

DM replied that she was giving her money and that she was going to my half brothers house on the 24/08 ( day before GD birthday) He lives 3 hours drive away.

I thought, okay that’s it then, don’t go begging her and giving her the attention she wants. Leave it there. But no, she doesn’t leave it there and instead messages me over and over-“shall I get a gift?, should I give her money and a small gift?, I thought you were away on her birthday (I have spoken to her about this recently and she knew we were NOT away for her birthday and we even discussed DM coming over as she always does on GD’s birthday!!). She has messaged me continually. “If I get a gift, I will have to come over to your house on the 23rd and give it to her”. When I didn’t answer straight away, she messaged again saying “well? Shall I get a gift because I need to know so I can order it off the internet in time”!

My arrangements were clear. DM is giving money and she won’t be up on GD birthday because she was going to my half brothers. Because this is what she told me, I went shopping and bought my DD some gifts from us, her parents. DM has now changed her mind, yet again. She is still messaging me about it even though I told her that money is fine. I told her that we would visit her next week to collect the card etc (I am working next week but not sure which days yet) She has now messaged again saying “if I am not buying a gift, there is no need to come down as I will post the card and transfer her the money. If you can think of a little gift to get her, that would be great”!

I give up. Why is everything so difficult. She made a decision and now wants to change it all and for everyone else to suit. She makes everything so complicated and time consuming and I don’t have the time just now. My head is like a whizz, with stuff whirling around inside.

I don’t know what to do for the best and to ensure I am not giving her what she wants- which makes my life harder in the long run! The anxiety is bad today!!!

OP posts:
DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont · 17/08/2024 09:47

Sorry to hear your anxiety is bad OP, I’m not surprised with all this going on. Bless your heart I do feel for you and totally understand your struggles as my DM is virtually identical

what worked for me is not getting dragged into her world of creating chaos and drama over everything. Ultimately it’s a control and attention issue. So how I managed to create some peace for myself was the realisation that I couldn’t change her, couldn’t reason with her nor help her really because she wanted all those things, she didn’t want a solution based approach just wanted whatever she wanted and at any cost, emotionally and to the detriment of my MH
so I stopped offering solutions, stopped changing my plans to suit her whims, stopped getting upset and frustrated over what I couldn’t control because ultimately DM was the master of control, I stopped allowing her to steer my life to suit herself. I must say it was incredibly hard at first as she was used to all the above and scheming to hurt me via playing off my brother to hurt me as he’s absolutely favourite and can do no wrong plus whatever he does or buys is waaaay better than anything my efforts. The 2 remaining sisters (remember 2 other sisters have been outcast for donkeys years because of her) call DB golden balls 😂 between ourselves. Sums the situation up perfectly!

so to apply this to your current DD birthday situation I would state how it works best for me (making sure I know this could work for DM) then stick to it and do not allow any wavering from that. Basically put your boundaries in place and do not allow her to change a damn thing. Every time DM comes up with this that and the other just calmly state the original plan is the one and only plan that works for you. Period!
At first I got all sorts of hissy fits and you never said that, you know that now can’t work for me because I’ve missed that deadline or I didn’t understand etc etc etc but nowadays she doesn’t mess with me. She knows she can’t control me and I have such an easy life now by comparison. She occasionally tries it on by conjuring up something but I’m really lovely when I say I can’t, that doesn’t work for me. I don’t explain myself or justify and I don’t offer solutions to her multitude of life problems she creates for herself on a daily basis.

so let her put the card in the post and transfer the money. Don’t think another thing about it.
Let her deal with the fallout of her own actions
it’s not your problem so don’t make it so.
stay calm, stay focused on your boundaries, don’t allow any changes to the plan
make your mental health a priority, you are no good to anyone frazzled and anxious.
hugs to you OP x

Hereforthekickz · 17/08/2024 16:05

@DamnedIfIDoDamnedIfIDont I really appreciate the time you took to reply and for your brilliant advice. I will certainly be putting it into practice. I have downloaded some audio books that may help me as well.

DM continued to message me yesterday and today so I ignored her. Today she was still asking if my DD would like this or that so I just replied with “yes that’s great”. Why she felt the need to continue asking and asking I don’t know.

She has tried calling me again today but I was out spending quality time with my DD so I ignored it. A message followed “I don’t have to go to your half brothers house on the 24th. He can come for me on the 25th (my DD’s birthday) at 5pm if she isn’t busy”. It’s amazing how the tone of her message completely change when she wants something. Ended with laughing emojis and hearts!!

What is difficult is that we haven’t made any definitive plans. We have discussed a few things like going out for tea because normally my DD would come over with my FIL and my DM. Well, my DD is in hospital as you know, my lovely FIL passed away 11 months ago and my DM made other plans. There were no concrete arrangements made.

The honest thing is, I don’t want her to come now. She does this every time. At Christmas, Easter she does exactly this! Messing everyone around. So now I feel like making up plan’s just to exclude her because I am angry and sick of her running the show! Every time she does this I change things to suit so that she gets what she wants. I just don’t want to have her around but it’s my DD birthday so I feel like I just have to put up with it.

OP posts:
Iwasafool · 17/08/2024 16:13

Hereforthekickz · 13/08/2024 19:50

@SauviGone she has always had a bee in her bonnet about it. My Dad adopted him you see and DM kept telling him that if he wasn’t in the Will, he could go and challenge it. What she didn’t know (and not that it was any of her business anyway) was that my DD had already spoken to be about it and wanted to leave something to him. DM was just trying to control the narrative once again. She wants her own way and she has used manipulation to get this in the past.

She was the same when I had my DD. Everything came with a condition attached. You want me to childmind, she will have to go to a nursery near me then. I went along with it then and I am still doing it now

Well if he adopted him he's his child the same as you. Not sure why you keep bringing it up. Do you resent you brother?

mathanxiety · 17/08/2024 16:16

Your mother is a narcissist. You need to do some research on their habits and behaviour and how they treat others.

Yes, you are being punished for your weekend away, and also punished for showing care and concern for your father.

Very low contact is the way forward, and watch what you say when you do contact her - look up "non responsive answers" and start practicing this style of communication.

It's concerning that she mentioned your father's will. Does he have a will? Is she really aware of what's in it? Who is his executor?

mathanxiety · 17/08/2024 16:18

Hereforthekickz · 14/08/2024 09:24

@Escapingafter50years my needs have never mattered.

This situation is not new to me, it’s been a problem for me for years. I have gotten angry and told her which was the worst thing to do. She got my half brother involved and I ended up the bad guy. She was better for a while but then all this happened with my DD and I am back in that place again.

I don’t know what it will take for me to finally and totally stop caring. I don’t want to be around her because of how it makes me feel. I don’t have these feelings when I am around anyone else. I feel uncomfortable, nervous and that I can’t be my true self. Always watching what I am saying.

Years ago, when my DD was 5 years old, we went on holiday for 2 weeks. Just before I went away DM was having some tests done (she is always having tests and always at the GP) Don’t get me wrong, some are necessary but you seem to know when it’s the attention seeking slipping in). Anyways, she called me the day before we were going and said she had the results and the GP had called her, at home, where she lives alone and said it was cancer. Well you can imagine how I felt. I was calling her whilst on holiday. Didn’t know if I should go away at all. Turns out the GP made a mistake!! When I told her we should challenge this, DM went quiet and wanted to forget about it!!!

Edited

Classic narcissist.

Hereforthekickz · 17/08/2024 17:02

@Iwasafool sorry I don’t understand your question. You may need to read the full posts

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 17/08/2024 17:11

@mathanxiety thank you. I will take your advice.

Yes my DF has a will and I am executor. I haven’t discussed my DF Will with anyone apart from my DF as he asked me to go with him to the solicitors.

I wonder if my DF spoke to my DM about his Will. The only reason I can see why he would do this is if my DM has gone on and on at him about making sure her son (my DF adoptive son) was in the Will. Why she needs to say this is completely weird as my DF was always going to put him in his Will. I don’t know but in all honesty, this is only one small part of my DM’s narcissism!

OP posts:
Hereforthekickz · 17/08/2024 17:13

I wonder how far on the spectrum she is???

OP posts:
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