How did you stop giving a shit and feel good about yourself?

[WeAllMakeChoices]

Bit of a self indulgent whiny moan if I'm honest, I'm afraid.

I'm 50 and I've been in a relationship with a man about 10 years older for nearly 4 years.

In every respect, it's the best relationship I've ever had but I'm just so unhappy in myself.

I keep waiting for the day to come I keep reading about when I just don't give a shit anymore but I'm plagued with the same neuroses and insecurities teenage me was. I don't feel any differently. I'm just older and in an older body with more to feel insecure about and life experiences that have shown me all the things I was insecure and worried about were the big deal I thought they were back then.

I've lost my mojo, my motivation and my hope. I've posted in relationships because it's affecting my relationship.

I just wondered if anyone else feels similarly and if you got yourself into the "fuck it" zone, how did you do it?"

I don't think you are going to like my answer to this.... my idgaf what others think and looking inward just happened naturally after my long term marriage ended.

In what way is this affecting your relationship though? You say its the best relationship you have ever had. But is it the best relationship for you now?

How’s your sleep/concentration/anxiety? It sounds a lot like peri-menopause. It might be worth getting your hormone levels checked with a view to going on HRT. It can make the world of difference.

I'm older than you OP and I'm afraid I'm still waiting to feel able to not give a damn. In mitigation I started with a very low base line as regards self confidence because of my upbringing.
I've made some progress and I found CBT helpful. Have you tried CBT?

I probably would if could get an appointment! But that's a whole other thread...

I've haven't seen a GP in person for about 6 years.

Maybe I need to try again.

I don't have any other menopausal symptoms though so I don't know if they'd take it seriously.

I've never spoke my mind and always tried to please people and didn't want to upset anyone or have an argument until one day I was in a really bad mood in school and the same girl who always liked to bully me said something to me and I just turned to her and said you are an complete dickhead aren't you. She was gobsmacked and that was it I started gradually speaking up and not being a doormat because it felt good. Over the years then whenever I've stared to feel in a slump I've booked a holiday or started a new hobby or cut and dyed my hair and each gave me more and more confidence and truth be told I couldn't give a shit what other people think. I would never ever public speak it terrified me now I'll do kareoke for a laugh (still need a few wines to do so) but do I care what others think. No not really

I also FORCED myself to laugh at myself even when on my own and I tripped I would laugh out loud even though i was embarrassed and gradually things like that did become funny. If someone said something negative I learned to fight back and after the situation I would force my self to say out loud what happened and then laugh instead of dwell on it and things got better and better

Thanks for the reply.

I had a brief period of that after a long relationship ended too but it didn't last.

As far as he's concerned, this is it now. This is the relationship he wants for the rest of his life. We get on brilliantly, laugh a lot, no financial or family stresses, we like the same sort of holidays, enjoy spending our free time similarly. We do loads together, we get on really well with each other's adult children. Similar music tastes and we're supportive of each other, our careers and workload etc. We dont have any probelms to overcome. We love each other. I can see why he thinks that. Everything just clicks.

But I just feel ugly and unattractive. I feel stupid making an effort to look nice. We're physically affectionate and he's very tactile but I feel like a fraud and don't see how he can be sexually attracted to me. I find it difficult to reciprocate physical affection and I've withdrawn sexually because I just feel inadequate.

I don't want to but that voice keeps popping up to tell me that I'm ugly and unattractive and that he doesn't find me attractive. It's like an interior monologue that won't shut up and keeps mocking me.

I just don't have the confidence anymore.

I've always dealt with low self confidence for similar reasons.

I've just been waiting for that day to not give a shit and it hasn't come.

I use CBT techniques and it's really helped in other areas of my life but this is one area where I just don't seem to be able to quieten the voice.

Brilliant! 😁

Yes, I've had similar experiences. I'm not a people pleaser and I've done a lot of the things you've suggested and still do and will also happily do karaoke after a few! So I suppose I do care less in that sense. I don't worry if people think I look an idiot or about making a fool of myself.

It makes me feel more confident in myself and my abilities eg my ability to take care of myself or my ability to push myself put of my comfort zone or my ability to be independent etc. But as soon as anyone else's opinion of me matters (say in a romantic relationship or at work), I'm filled with self doubt and criticism. I've almost got a handle on it at work now but I just can't seem to get a handle on it in a romantic relationship.

Why on earth would he find you attractive?

He can only bring himself tp have sex with you because he's thinking of someone else.

You might as well not make any effort because you're shit anyway. So why bother?

No one would be attracted to you because of this, that or the other. Why would he be any different?

There are women in his past who were better than you in every respect. You're just the best he can do now because he's older. Don't be getting ideas above your station.

And on and on and on.

I don't have any problems with that sort of thing really, I'm realising.

I don't care about being judged by people for my.lifestyle or making mistakes or anything that I do.

It's who I am that is the problem I think.

If you think you are the problem then you 100 percent aren't. In life people who are the problem don't ever realise it. Trust me!

Get a piece of paper right now and write down why you are beautiful, could be because you are kind, you have amazing eyes, great legs, positive energy, great job, funny, nice hair, great laugh, amazing artist, best cook ever. Write down everything in a list about why you are beautiful and go stand infront of a long mirror and say them all out loud to yourself. You will feel like a total prat at first but do this every morning and every night and gradually it will become easier and the gradually you will start to believe it

Also write a list of why you are attractive, why your other half would want you could be things like because your fun to be around, your enthusiastic, you make him feel like he's won the lottery, he needs you, you've earnt the right to be happy etc and do the same as above.

Remember EVERYONE in this world brings something to it and plus men are fickle little creatures and if he didn't want to be with you or find you attractive he would move on regardless of age

Hi I'm the same for similar reasons, got really tired of that voice after fifty odd years and lots of different types of therapy. For some reason an audio book recommended on here really helped - Complex PTSD by Pete Walker. There's a part where he challenges the inner voice which I found really useful and revisit when that stupid bloody voice starts piping up again. It's never too late to realise how amazing you are.

Bloody hell. Are you me?

I am exactly like this. It's tearing me apart. I have no idea how to fix it.

I've read all the books, I do therapy, I tried the 'fuck off, Trump' approach for a while and it helped a bit but the negative voice immediately challenges me again if I stand up to/for myself it says "Who the fuck do you think you are kidding? You can argue with me as much as you like, you are what you are, old, flawed, less than other women, he's just stuck with your now because he's old and can't do much better but he wishes he could and don't try and kid yourself with this positive crap, it isn't true, you're just embarrassing yourself"

scotlandscold

Thank you.

And I feel I should believe you because you seem like a pretty honest and straightforward person because Scotland is, indeed, cold 😁

I know that your suggestion is good and it was good to be reminded of it!

But this is where I start to struggle.

Physically, I can't really see anything attractive in myself. My feet are still in pretty good nick considering they've kept me walking for my whole life. And my ankles and calves are slim. But they're also pale and freckly and I can see a road map of veins under my skin. So not attractive.

My thighs are wobbler than they were (so much wobbly white!) and look ridiculous atop my skinny calves.

My arse has grown and developed its own gratlvitational pull. It's quite a round arse and it hasn't dropped (yet) so maybe that's a positive? But it always feels like it gets in the way during sex and makes it awkward. And I don't think anyone would ever describe it as attractive. No one ever has anyway.

I always used to have a flat stomach and still have a discernable waist when standing but a c section scar, beer and cheese mean I now have a proper 'mum tum' complete with an overhang and it all spreads out if i lie on my back (and my waist completely disappears) and blobs in front of me if I lie on my side.

My boobs are an OK size and look OK in a bra (OK, not good) but as soon as that baby comes off, they're an amorphous mess that disappear into my armpits.

My face is my face. I'm starting to resemble older relatives who aren't the relatives I resembled when I was younger!

My hair is just below shoulder length. I dye it and always have done but the texture's changed as its started to grey and now it's a frizzy mess whatever I do 🙄 I've bought the serums, silk pillow cases and sought advice from the hairdressers. The frizz is here to stay.

Outside of that, I can't really see how I'm too different to most people really.

I'm independent, resilient, kind, intelligent, well educated, solvent and good at my job.

But, as I'm so often reminded on MN, those characteristics are things women look for in men not things that men look for in women.

I don't 'scrub up well', wear heels and stockings, or nice lingerie in the bedroom. I never have and I'd look fucking ridiculous if I did. I don't. My sexual confidence has all but disappeared. Actually, it's completely disappeared. I feel like i could laugh a man into bed, but would no longer have a clue what to do when I got him there.

I can cook well but I'm far less inclined to stand making decent meals from scratch now my children have grown so we eat a lot of salad 👍🏻 and, besides, he does most of the cooking anyway.

I'm not particularly domesticated. My home is clean and tidy. Sometimes. I'm not very good at the 'feminine touch' stuff. I have no cushions and the throws always end up in a crumple at the back of the sofa. I can light a pretty good fire. When I can be arsed.

I'm not naturally tidy or organised. I don't feel.any particular satisfaction st having a clean and tidy home. I never remember birthdays and I don't celebrate my own. So I'm not very good at making a fuss of other people's. I feel like I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.

Actually, feeling like I don't really know what I'm supposed to do probably feeds into it a lot. I know there is no 'supposed to' but there are general expectations, aren't there?

I actually have very few redeeming features, I now realise..!

So yeah, that would be a very short list of positives I was reading to myself.

men are fickle little creatures and if he didn't want to be with you or find you attractive he would move on regardless of age

That's what I keep telling myself. But some also stick around because there's nothing better on offer.

And it doesn't help hpw I feel about myself.

Ah, thanks. I'm off to see if I can find that now 👍🏻

Yup. All of that too.

The worst thing is that, I've occasionally tried to talk to him about it. I obviously don't tell him everything because I don't want him to admit that he sees all those flaws too and just doesn't care. Because I feel like he should care. He's wonderful and deserves the best after all! But nothing he says makes it any better so I stopped. I don't want him to lie to make me feel better and I now think he only compliments me because he should.

We had a conversation recently about a man in his 70s who is a friend of a friend. We don't often have to see him (thankfully!) and he's always bleating on about some "young lovely" he's seen. He's gross. And single...

Anyway, my partner said something about older men still lusting after young women was a) disgusting but b) most men grow up and become a bit more realistic about the sort of women they want to date.

I don't think he meant it the way I took it but it just fed into my internal.narrative of "see he's only with you because he's old and couldn't do any better now and he admits it!"

Anything he says, whether it's clumsy but well meant or sounds like it might be genuine, still feeds into the negative narrative. I don't want to give it any more words to use against me.

can't do much better but he wishes he could

Yes.

so I am a 61 yr old women, when I was in my early 20s I was so afraid to go into a store alone. I would sit in my car and cry. I just knew everyone would be discussed by my uglyness. ulgar, fat and repulsed by the sight of me. it paralyzed me. I was 19, 20 yrs old. I weighed about 120 lbs I had long curly red hair. I was a kind person green eyes. full lips large breast. but I was paralyzed with my belief I was so repulsive people would be grossed out just having to look at me. I decided to try an experiment. every time I'd pass someone on the street I would smile and say hello. what I realized was that people were not grossed out from the sight of me. it lifted people up. they smiled back. I learned that we inflict our own limitations on ourselves with the stinking thinking our childhood lied to us about ourselves. it was the biggest change I've ever made in my life. to change how I believed the world saw me.

About 50

Took some self reflection over a period of time

Difficult? yes

Outcome worth it? Absolutely!

I must admit, the feeling of 'not being good enough’ never altogether goes. We as women are brainwashed into thinking we must look and act a certain way, mustn’t be too thin, too fat, must be presentable at all times etc etc.

I'm 56 …menopausal, looking after a teenage son, running a business and looking after a belligerent elderly mother…..tbh, I’m too busy to have any fucks to give.

in fact I’m finding it incredibly freeing not to have the attention I used to have. Yes I still dress well, wear make up and have my hair done, but it for me…no one else.
I really couldn’t give a soggy damn what anyone else thinks.

I can’t tell you when this change in my mentality happened however, but my fierceness is liberating.

OP, how are things in relation to diet, sleep and exercise? If things could be improved, I'd focus on this first. It could be as simple as

upping water intake every day
regular sleep routine
healthier meals
brisk walk daily, core exercises at home etc

I find that improving these elements can boost my mood.

Would it be worth talking through these issues with someone e.g. your GP, a counsellor or therapist?

Superficially, I think the things that make the most difference in terms of appearance are: teeth whitening, professional eyebrow shaping and a trip to the hairdressers.

Would it be worth overhauling your wardrobe? e.g. donating, selling or throwing away things that don't make you feel good.

OP l think you sound great and your OH obviously feels the same. Just remember these negative thoughts about yourself are only thoughts and not the truth. You don't mention your upbringing or the way you were treated as child. These sort of limiting beliefs usually go back to what we were told then and the labels our parents or caregivers gave us. If that is the case with you then please consider therapy to help you see things differently.

This is so common. A lot of women internalize society's insane expectations about our looks and have self loathing for not meeting unrealistic standards. It's almost a kind of brainwashing with the relentless messages women get about our looks.
You've done CBT to no avail so I can only suggest you counter these misogynistic messages you've internalized with feminism. Do some reading on feminist theory and hang around on the feminist threads here. You could raise this issue there as well. The Beauty Myth would be a good book to start with as it deals with the kind of issues you have.

OP, I totally get it because I've gone through life hating my body and feeling pity for any man I've been in a relationship with, always comparing myself to others and falling short.

Is your partner the epitome of the ideal man or does his body match his age? I'm guessing it's the latter and that you love him as he is. I doubt you spend your time wishing he looked like someone else. Why should he view you any differently?

It's hard to "big yourself up" after a lifetime of negative self-talk, but how would you respond if a daughter or friend spoke about themselves the way you do about yourself? You would probably be shocked and do your best to show themselves more compassion, to concentrate on all their lovely qualities. You need to be kind to yourself.

Therapy (if you can get it) would be useful for you to understand where these beliefs about yourself came from. There are lots of books on self image/body dysmorphia that might also help.

Thanks to those who've picked up this thread and posted. I know it's been a year since I started it but I don't feel any different.

I recognise the feelings of pity (along with shame) for any man I'm with and always comparing myself and falling short.

I sleep well, I eat well, I walk a fair bit. I do lots of self care stuff and look after myself. I've lost a stone and a half in the year since first posting.

An ex friend told me a couple of years ago that she wished I could see myself the way she and others saw me. But then she tried it on with my partner so maybe it wasn't as well intended a comment as it first seemed!

I just feel adrift and small.