How to help conspiracy theory-obsessed mother? **Content warning MNHQ**

[AliasGrace47]

I'm 18, and I know it seems strange for a teen to ask advice here. But I looked at the feminism boards from curiosity and have found the advice here much more trustworthy than other forums.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrolnewsarticles

It’s very tempting to logic someone out of these wild beliefs but I fear it doesn’t work because they didn’t logic themselves into it in the first place. I know they say they ‘have done their research’ but that’s all part of their fallacy. They’ll just gish gallop you into the next one, and the next, and the next. You can ask questions if you feel you need to engage but often grey rock is the best way to go.

Sorry, I've been v busy again but would like to continue if poss, it's been a big help to let it out & get good advice.
🙂hearing about these views & seeing the large stack of bks she's bought, it can be hard not to sometimes wonder if there is such evil in governments as she thinks. I def don't think there is, but as I don't have anyone irl I can talk to, it's hard to chuck the niggles from my mind totally as I can't get alternative points of view. (She is into I guess well-known Qanon type stuff re Covid, great reset, wef etc but she's most worried about mind control, egi and more niche abuse survivors' accounts, so it's hard to get alternative points of view to process.)

I don't read the bks she buys, but initially I did flick through a few. They were all by people who said they'd been horribly abused by politicians etc and programmed to have multiple personifies to abuse other people. I read little as they were graphic and disturbing, & it made me v uncomfortable that women (most were by women) were writing this.

Hi OP this is really hard for you and I want to let you know that millions of children around the world are having to deal with this sort of thing happening with their parents and even some parents dealing with this in their children plus, as if that wasn’t enough, some people are going through this with their partners. From my understanding, you will not logic your mother out of this so don’t try. There are loads of podcasts where this subject is discussed and where people describe their experiences. My suggestions are Conspirituality and The Sensibly Speaking podcast. There are other good ones but I can’t remember them so do look around. You need someone IRL to talk to, in my opinion, too. Best wishes

@HoppityBun says good things there. You’re not alone in this.

Be careful with yourself in trying to understand your mum. By all means look at the things she’s reading but create a protection bubble around yourself. These things work because they are always based on a nugget of truth. Of course we should question authority, of course we shouldn’t just trust governments, corporations etc. it’s quite reasonable to know that they don’t always have our best interests at heart. But it’s very very easy to start taking steps down a bad path and then not be able to find your way back out again.

Remember that the narrator is often unreliable, they will often have their own ulterior motives. Their version of ‘the truth’ also may not have our best interests at heart and we should apply the same skepticism. Ask yourself ‘why are they saying/doing this?’ ‘What’s the reward?’ ‘Who’s ultimately benefitting from this?’

Thank you Hoppity. The podcasts sound really useful, I'll listen as soon as I can. I do need to get someone irl to talk to.. who is the q?
I just want to add some more background to the triggers for my mum's ideas. Last year I went w my gran to my younger uncle's house. He had been colluding w my older uncle in the elder abuse of my gran, so as my gran still wanted to see him someone else had to be there to keep an eye. My mum offered to go, but I wanted to see my 3yo cousin, who I'd only seen about twice due to the conflict.

The month before, uncle had sent photos. One was of my cousin & her 5yo brother in their room. 5yo was sitting on 3yo's back & pointing 1 finger at her mouth, w the rest in a fist. My mother said it gave her an instinctively icky feeling, referring mainly to the gesture. I didn't see anything wrong w it, but she was insistent. Uncle has had dodgy associates in the past who he seems to still be in contact w, & she felt they were manipulating him (there had been multiple instances of this, some quite serious).

I was sure the photo was OK, but was worried a little by how insistent she was. She declared that any mother would agree w her. I actually did a thread about it here w a cropped pic of the gesture to see if I was missing something. It was deleted & most people on the thread thought it was a wind-up & laughed. (I think they found it particularly odd I was asking MN advice as a teen, I should have explained more about why). Anyway, from the bemused reactions, it was obvs the gesture wasn't inappropriate, so I decided to be sceptical about my mum's worries. I felt she'd probs got the idea from conspiracy bks which have photos that claim to show gestures etc that are codes for csa. Having been a single mother who faced a lot of justified worry about me when I was little,her general protective instincts are high alert, & this is a major window for the theories I suppose.

But something really horrible happened during the visit that has made me & my mum question everything. Bc of the elder abuse, I was vigilant & also kept my phone video on to record the visit on the pretext of taking pics of the garden where we were sitting.

I know this sounds unbelievable, but I'm totally sure I saw my uncle rubbing my cousin's genital area. I don't mean accidentally touching, his hand was there for some time. My mum had thought he was being manipulated, she never imagined he was hurting his children on purpose, & definitely not like that.. And I hadn't thought anything was wrong.
😰I basically froze, I didn't react or anything. It seems so crazy he would do that w so many people there (my other uncle & aunt were there). But my gran as I've said is not there mentally a lot of the time, & his wife was chatting to other aunt & uncle &looking at the garden.
I kind of pushed it out of my mind until I got home & told my mum. We looked at the video footage & it made it more disturbing, as what I saw hadn't been caught on camera, but in an earlier part of the video my cousin was on his lap & kept putting her hand towards his genitals. I didn't ever do that to adults as a child, I suppose some kids might, but by 3 wouldn't you be taught not to if was repeated a lot?
I insisted on telling the police, my mum doubts authority figures help, but she agreed in the end we had to do something, though she was scared of repercussions from uncle's dodgy friends.

Unfortunately, the police were terrible. They arrived w 3 officers, incl 1 man, which wasn't really a v sensitive way to question me in the first place, & they were really insensitive when asking about the physical details of what I saw.
I to be questioned alone, but they said she should stay. As I expected, she put her foot in it completely. She had some pics uncle had sent, & insisted on showing them. They were imo innocent, (tho if I was right- & I'm sure I was- I guess they weren't 😢) But they fit the 'signs' in her stupid books & when the policewoman said they were just children playing, she got really upset & insisted they backed my account up. I was really upset too, they weren't listening to me & seemed almost contemptuous, but her interventions didn't help..

It would have been impossible for them to take it further as no one else saw & no other evidence. But they could have been much more supportive. They essentially said the word of the others & his good reputation meant they didn't believe me. At the end, the policeman sneaked off while we were talking to the other 2 & a week later we were phoned saying he'd complained the house was messy. Ffs it was messy bc we were caring for grandmother who was at that point up around 4 nights a week shouting in fear. (She's basically better now) It's wonderful the se police thought mess was more important than csa..😡

Alias, these updates are getting above the mumsnet pay grade and I think not the sorts of things you should rely on getting good advice from strangers on the internet for. As I think I mentioned earlier, there seems to be quite a tangled and traumatised set of relationships in your family, including you.

i think I picked up that you are young and maybe a student? If you are I recommend you take the opportunity to speak to someone qualified to start working all this out with you. Don’t dilly dally, if you are a student you are likely to have access to services that are much harder to get into once you leave education.

Sorry, I hope it's ok to resurrect the thread. I've been v busy, but I'm really grateful for all the advice, it's helped a lot to talk it out.

I know that everything I've written makes it seem like my life must be a total nightmare. But my mum is def improving : the key is to keep her busy & avoid any conspiracy topics. She does retain her old self, this conspiracy stuff is fairly new, and she does have some lucidity about how implausible a lot of it is.

I will definitely seek help when I go to uni- I wouldn't say I'm traumatised. I've def had a lot of upset, but I don't have PTSD or any sort of problem functioning in daily life. I know counselling can be very helpful for people, but I personally think I feel better carrying on w daily life & not thinking about previous problems.

But I do think counselling would help w getting perspective on the world : I take my mum's ideas w a v heavy punch of salt, as you've seen, but it can be hard to not worry that her ideas may be true. She believes so strongly, it's hard not to doubt myself at times.

I'm really sorry for posting about the CSA of my cousin without putting a trigger. I've PMed MN to add one.

I do worry a lot about my cousin- but what can I do? I reported to the police, they responded v badly imo, but at least it's on record. They're at school, hopefully the teachers will pick up on any signs. I hate not being able to do anything-maybe he's been scared & won't try anything else?
I try not to think about it. I spoke to Stop It Now! They were v kind & much more aware than the police.
I know the thread wasn't to talk about this, & it seems a huge info overload, but I think it's important for understanding why my mum's got into this

Her attitude now is really shell-shocked, understandably. She feels that having been lied to by her her dbs & utterly mistaken about what they're like, she can't really trust anyone. It's really scary, as luckily she never left me alone w younger uncle, as he had dodgy friends, but if she had, who knows what could have happened? During the court cases w my father, she repeatedly said they were the people she trusted.. I don't think I've really processed it all tbh, but she has, & it's led to this distrust that made her so vulnerable.
That's the thing : people do hide evil behind a mask often. Abuse happens where you least expect it. But distrust of everyone isn't workable. She says to ne that the only people she trusts are me & my gran, & she'll never trust anyone else again. I feel so sad for her. I think getting involved in work & volunteering to make friends would be really good. But she's so bruised it's difficult. The only friend she has is my godmother, & we only see her twice a year..

Counselling is not always or just about digging up the past, it’s as much about strategies for how you navigate the world now and in the future. You are very enmeshed in your familiy’s issues and seem to be to be taking upon yourself a great deal of responsibility to solve them. I think this is a trauma response - maybe you can escape your own distressing feelings by keeping yourself busy by focussing on everyone else? Maybe you have a need to be the saviour that wasn’t there for you? Maybe something else, or maybe I’m completely wrong.

But going forward make sure you know what you want, how you want to feel and make sure that isn’t all sucked away trying to serve other peoples’ needs.

Thank you, your advice is v helpful. I think strategies for now would be useful, mainly on keeping a steady perspective & not being affected by kooky theories..
I get why you think this could be a trauma response of trying to solve everyone's else's issues.

But as I said, her issue is my main issue, bc it's difficult to rely on her as I used to when she says things like, 'Don't watch the news, it's all actors and psyops.' Or 'Be careful when you're at uni in November, there will be worldwide chaos if Trump loses, the Great Reset will come.' I've lost my uncles, & my gran's great but frail, so I don't really have any other adults to rely on & it's lonely.. My friends are really good but they just find it hard to grasp & as I've said, I don't want to complain all the time to them.

If it were just a little theory she had it'd be OK, the issue is how pervasive it is, so it affects having a normal relationship w her.
I don't blame my mum for not saving me : my father's behaviour was hardly her fault, & she protected me from having contact w him when I was young. With my 2 uncle's, how could she have known what they were like? They hid it v well. Yes, I wish all those things hadn't happened, ofc, but I don't blame my mum.
I don't see either uncle anymore. We are moving on, the residual harm is these conspiracy theories.. I get it seems like I'm acting therapist to everyone, but the stuff w the uncles came out some time ago, it was context to explain why she has these crazy sounding beliefs. It makes sense when you look in context. I try to say to her that abusers are often ordinary family members, they don't need to be in a cult. I know you could say thinking that a cult changed them makes it Lees painful for her, but it's not worth it I'd it makes her suspicious of everyone.

I think you’re mixing up social credit scores with ‘Social Value’, which requires all public sector organisations and their suppliers to look beyond the financial cost of a contract to consider how the services they commission and procure can improve the economic, social and environmental wellbeing of an area.

I think a key reason why I'm not traumatised is that home was always safe for me. The stuff w my uncles happened outside the house, & I've never met my father (well not since I was 11 months) so his awful behaviour hurts but feels rather distant bc of that. Also I really like my school, that's always been safe. My girls' school had a lot of emphasis on positive male role models, there were lots of kind male teachers. Plus several of my friends are very close to their fathers, so I know that my uncles & father aren't the only sorts of men around!I sometimes wish I had a father like my friend's, but I can also see from them how I'm lucky. One friend rarely sees her mother, as she has to run a business in a different country, & her father's run off, so she lives w a nanny. Another friend lost her mother in the middle of GCSEs. I've had a lot to deal w, but all the abuse has Been secondhand, via court, or directed at others, & while it's awful, I feel extremely lucky to have always had 2 people who were always around & put me first. I still need my mum, but up till now she's Bern v strong, & not offloaded onto me. During the court case when I was 10, she had cancer, luckily picked up early, but I only found out v recently, as she thought I had enough to deal w.