How do I put my foot down

[Noodlenation]

How do some women have their partners locked? By this I mean under the thumb?
mine doesn’t listen to me, doesn’t help with kids
just thinks because he earns money that’s it
he doesn’t have to do anything else

I don’t work so he will always be like well you go out and work and I’ll watch the kids do all your home chores.
I’ve seen men work silly hours and come back home and help with everything.
anyone have a solution?
i know some are going to post well leave his chores, don’t do anything for him
but how long does that last? Won’t that push them away further?
have you done this and it’s worked? And they suddenly start doing everything?
if you consider your partner locked down, what’s your secret, how do you get him to respect you

I don’t mean control, I mean respect you so that he then starts listening to everything and not making it an issue

thank you

My husband works and I don't at the moment and while I still do the majority of housework my partner still helps out when needed and without asking. Why? Well my partner is an adult and doesn't need to be 'put under the thumb'. He's a decent human being who knows what needs doing around the house and does it. Because he's an adult.

Men who don't at least help out a bit aren't worth trying to change, they won't change. They're just hopeless, useless and give me major ick.

In your situation OP I'd go and get a job. Earn your own money and leave this guy.

My husband is a good man who doesn't need to be told to respect me

"Under the thumb" is a negative phrase, meaning that the person who is under the thumb is being bullied, controlled and treated badly. You're presumably not asking for tips on how to do that :)
If your dh just did housework, you wouldn't have to ask/tell him to do anything or complain when he didn't. So I guess your complaint is really about him not doing any housework?
What kind of things are you asking him to do? Did he use to respect you, when you first met?

I don't consider my partner 'locked down' nor would I expect him to feel that way about me. We instinctively understand and respect one another's needs. Occasionally something needs to be pointed out, from either side but that's taken well and we move on. I don't think there's a manual that can help you create what you need sadly..

If you don’t work then for me you should be doing all house related jobs and he should help with the kids at night.

being a mum is 24 hour job with no breaks. So if I want the guy that’s helped me produce them to pull his weight then I think that’s fair.

Honestly OP
If your partner doesn't love and value and respect you enough to care, then nothing you will ever do will get him 'under your thumb' or 'locked down'

The foundation of a good partnership isn't making each other do things.

I can work a 12 hour day and come home to my husband who has had a day off. And yes, I would expect him to have done the majority of the housework. But guess what. If he's had a rough day for whatever reason, I'll tell him to put his feet up. I'll go and give the kids their dinner, I'll do bath and bedtime, and when I come back I'll give him a massage.
Not because of consequences or control. Because I actually care about him as a person. I see him as a human being, who has days filled with energy and courage, and days where he feels like shit and needs my help.
And my partner will do the same for me. We take turns putting the kids to bed and doing the dishes after dinner, but when I've had a rough day I can easily ask him to take over for me while I go lay down. We'll offer each other daytime naps. Soon I'll be taking the kids on a week long trip just so he can have some well-deserved me-time. And he'd do the same for me.

Your marriage sounds like a constant competition. Who does more than the other. Who doesn't do enough. This is a killer for every good partnership

I understand, under the thumb I should not have used.
yes he did respect me at one point and he used to help out. But something changed.
it’s like helping out when working is seen as injustice to him now!!

he can take kids out for hour to give me some relief but he won’t refuses to. If he does I have to go with them.

leaves his sh*t everywhere, expects me to pick it all up. And I do because I hate mess.

I did this by not marrying an arsehole. I do understand some men start out fine and descend into wankerhood though, so I do sympathise. Although if you aren't working you should be doing most of the chores, I know I did when I wasn't working (on maternity leave). Maybe you should look into going back to work?

OP most people will take others for granted if they don't push back. Some have an innate sense of respect and won't take advantage but many do.

A lot of women have mutually respectful marriages until they have children, then male privilege and entitlement creeps in and they gradually find themselves doing the bulk of the work. That's one of the major reasons marriages end.

You can't force someone to respect you. All I can suggest is that you perhaps start marriage counselling and try to get him to understand how you feel. Another suggestion would be to read up on assertiveness and boundaries and try and implement them. Something else you can do is simply stop acting like skivvy and stop running around after him.

Ultimately if he doesn't respect you, you're not going to be able to 'make' him respect you. My DH works, I work PT. We're a partnership, we both do what needs doing, I act more as the 'project manager' but he'll do jobs he sees need doing. I've not had to nag or plead with him to be this way, that's how he is.

Are you financially secure and paying in to a pension? Hopefully you're not dependent on him for housing. You can't really be dependent on a boyfriend who doesn't value you.

My husband just performs normal, functional adult tasks, so I don't know how to answer the OP.

yes he did respect me at one point and he used to help out. But something changed
The same happened with my exh; after our second child came along he stopped cooking and cleaning, and became sulky about me spending what I thought was our family money - even when I was spending it on nappies or food. (I did work a little but he actually made even that pretty difficult for me.). In retrospect, even though he did stuff before, and claimed to believe in equality, there had been a few signs that he didn't get it really. Now, I'd be sceptical, but back then I wasn't as experienced, and there was no mumsnet!

Don't let him paint you as the nagging wife - but also, don't only talk about the topic when an argument comes up. Try to have a cool-headed discussion on a good day. Say that you want more mutual respect in your relationship; that it's hard to respect someone who throws their dirty pants on the floor for you to pick up; that you used to see him as a kind, thoughtful, principled person and want to go back to that.

When it was decided i was going to be a sahm, the ground rules were laid out like a job effectively.

So we agreed, i would do everything in the house, food, cleaning, gardening, maintenance, kids, school, shopping, doctors etc etc so that he could have as much leisure time at home as i could give him
Me being ill, kids being ill, clearly some things slipped some days.

But i could not and would not be a dad to the children we both wanted and brought into this world and i would not accept any attitude that what i was contributing to the house was "less"

So basically we were both aiming for the same goal. A household with a decent income, love, happiness, fun, good food, play, relaxation. He knew that his "work" didn't end at knock off time.

And we both stuck to that.

We still love an apprentice all the other does.

I don't expect him to wash a dish, but i do expect him to understand that for "reasons" dinner is mash and beans late this evening

I don't expect him to wash a sock but i do expect him not to be pissed off if the jeans he wanted but didn't say aren't clean that day

He does cover electrical and car maintenance i just can't get my head around that

And he stuck to his side, he did almost every morning drop off during primary school "because he wanted them to know he valued their education as well and it's all he could do"(he couldn't do it now as he has changed jobs) he cones to every parent's day, performance he can. He helps with homework after work, he plays with them, less so now they are teens but still does chess, takes them to sports, talks to them about whatever they need.

He still doesn't wash socks but then i still don't work in a job sense, i earn money when i feel like it.

Both of us work hard, longer than office hours, everyday, well most days. Because that's ife.

My advice, sit down and calmly discuss what you are both actually working towards. I presume something along the lines of
A happy functioning household
Everyone having as much leisure time together as possible
You being a mum him being a dad
Good food
Enough money
Love respect and appreciation in your relationship
No one upmanship
Being able to talk like adults about things
Kids knowing you both love them and building relationships between you them and the siblings

That sort of thing

Oh we are married, house in both names, pension in both names.
I am secure financially, this wss also discussed at the time of me not going back to work.

But then H just looks at money as something we need not a power thing.

This isn’t the kind of thing you can demand. You’ll just become a nag trying.

All you can do is sit down and talk through how you are feeling. If he doesn’t get it, he’s not going to change.

And sometimes you forget how much you love someone or need them until you are dealt a difficult period of life

We have both held each other, and the kids, up, for family bereavement, job changes, illness, kid's illness. It's not all been unicorn and rainbows by a long shot.

But you just do it.

Neither of us does more/less than the other.

We both do lots. And we both know that.
We'll do less when we retire.

"he can take kids out for hour to give me some relief but he won’t refuses to. If he does I have to go with them.
leaves his sh*t everywhere, expects me to pick it all up. And I do because I hate mess."

OK that's much more specific than wanting him "under your thumb", which could be all sorts.

Like so many things (law and order, discipline with your kids, teaching...) it's much harder to undo bad habits but you are here now. Assuming you're not entertaining separation, here are some thoughts.

• Believing you can. You're going to need confidence over time; come back here for it, or to your friends, your mum, counselling, self-help books, but every day you drop it, you'll have to roll that stone all the way up the hill again, so believe in it.
• Get specific and don't fight it all at once. You can say that the whole culture of your couple has to change, but that's too vague for him to do something at first. Pick something that matters to you that can be ring-fenced and is small and specific enough: "pick up your own crap", "put your dirty washing in that basket". "Smart" targets are specific, measurable (you're doing X. I'm glad. It's giving me time to do Y), achievable (ask him to climb a molehill to begin with...), realistic, and time-limited ("what, it's not done yet? We said it was needed today")
• Don't give up. No need for massive arguments but if targets are smart you can ask for it to be respected without nagging. The best teaching advice I've ever had: never, ever, let rebellion pass unchallenged.
• Make it also about him. Tidying up? "you'll build resilience". Time with the kids? "You'll develop a rapport, you'll enjoy it". Relationships are not a zero-sum game, make him see what you ask is win-win.
• Give him space to do what you ask his way: if you micro-manage it, you'll get no relief and he'll find it a nag. For example, if he takes the kids, he doesn't take them to the event you arranged with your friend; he takes them to do something he chooses and he takes responsibility for.
• If he doesn't know how to do it, to not micro-manage things, there's always youtube.
• As things progress, have the "mental load" conversation: you don't need relief from doing X, you need relief from thinking at all about X. Ask him to take charge of a whole chunk of work from end to end. His choice of work, but - end to end: e.g. clear the table, plus fill the dishwasher, plus wash, dry, put away, empty that machine, and leave surfaces tidy and clean for the next time each time, and involve your children in helping. Don't micro-manage it: if something's left undone, hand it back to him, and don't give up - let it get worse until it gets to unbearable - his unbearable not yours!, then repeat that it's his job, he's let it go, his choice to do it all on a Sunday and get rid of the flies too please. (example of other chunks: bathrooms including loos and choosing cleaning products and making sure they are safely away; cooking and filling the larder; washing and drying and folding away clothing... always end to end)

A word of warning. I took that responsibility for the household one chunk at a time from my DW like this. Today she's my EW and I'm the children's carer. House management is power. Just like at one time, women found it liberating to get jobs and earn independently, your DH will find it liberating to grow the ability to manage the house. You will have to talk about what you both want.

You can't make someone respect you.

Your partner thinks the home and kids are womens work. Now you know this, stop having kids with him.

He will never do his share because he doesn't respect you fundamentally as a person. Personally I'd leave him.

But if you do stay, start taking days away and leaving the kids with him. Take the time you need. Let him see how hard it is to watch the kids all weekend and keep the house clean without you there. Also, he is to pay for a cleaner if he won't do his share in the house.

Ask him how he would feel if his won sons couldn't even cook for themselves when they grew up? Or if a man treated his daughter like a fucking maid instead of a partner.

And get a job. Don't let him make you give it up. You need to cover your ass ASAP so you can escape this marriage at a moments notice if and when it all becomes to much. So work and work history is important. Even if it's just part time money.

Being a SAHM is so precarious in general because you are fully dependent on the person bringing in the salary. And when there's that big of an imbalance of power, there's often trouble. Even to a small extent with the good ones

You can't change him. He doesn't respect what you do. You also wont have any success with him valuing what you do until you begin to equalise the power in the relationship - but to equalise means you have to give up being a SAHM. Go back to work, part time if needs be, build on your qualifications and build your career.

You can't depend on a man who has no respect for you. You can only ever depend on yourself.

My husband respects me and understands that it's his house to keep clean as well.

I don't have to put my foot down because I married a man who was ready to be a full partner. We've always arranged things so that each of us got the same amount of free time and free money to spend. It's the only way that's fair.

You can't make someone respect you. The only way you can be sure of being with someone who respects you, is by first leaving a partner who doesn't.

Partly my DH is a good person, but also he knows that if he doesn't treat me with respect I'll leave. I am not reliant on him. At the moment, he earns more and I do more childcare, but if I needed to I could support myself and our DC without him.

'Help' with the kids 🙄
I'd expect a decent man to actually want to parent his own children, not to act like he's 'helping' the mother.

If he wasn't with the OP then presumably he'd still be working anyway, and then have to come home and cook and clean etc, he should definitely still be doing some house related jobs

I mean he doesn't have to of course, but more than likely his relationship will suffer due to it, resentment will build, she will probably stop being attracted to him, there's a high chance they'll split up too.