How does he fix this?

[ChocolateMagnum]

This might end up being a 'drip-feed' conversation-y thread, but that's because it's all a big fat mess.

Basically, though, when your near-perfect husband of many years has a near-emotional affair with another woman he works with...how does he fix it? How can I trust him again? I don't want to have to deal with this. I need him right now because I have some other really awful stuff going on in my life.

I need someone to talk to so badly. Normally I'd talk to my mum but I'm not going to put this on her now.

It maybe me but I'm a bit confused by some of the posts, completely understand that you are probably overwhelmed at the moment.

Has he admitted that the relationship with this woman went further than it should have? Does he have an understanding of what he is trying to 'fix' or is he simply reacting to your emotions.

If he has no idea what you are getting at then I would agree with spelling it out to him that his behaviour is unacceptable in your marriage and that you are very hurt. He has massively let you down when you need support and is lying to you. Deleting the messages is a sure sign that he knows he is wrong in my opinion.

I think some space and time is very important, this will give you space to see how you feel and if you want anything further from him or if he has betrayed you enough that it's no longer possible.

I'm sorry to tell you but he's not an innocent little lamb.

He was never looking for friendship with this woman.

He told you he was going to do some errands - he lied to you.
he said he bumped into her - he lied to you.
he’s deleted their messages as he doesn’t want you to see them, no other reason.
he’ll tell you he can’t get them back probably.
or he’ll get them back but they’ll be edited.
he’ll then probably tell you you’re crazy or over reacting.
been there, got the t shirt.
your gut has protected you on this one.
im so sorry.
men are stupid idiots at times.
If I was you I’d be saying you’ve lied to me, you’ve taken me for a fool, you’ve disrespected me, leave, and then he can have as many cosy coffees with this OW as he likes and he’ll soon realise the grass isn’t greener.
im angry on your behalf as I know how it feels to have the floor pulled beneath you like this, but it’s all so ‘plausibly’ deniable that it can make you feel crazy.

He can look after the kids-do they need an adult with them or will they survive if you’re wfh? You can tell them you’re looking after your mum if they’re aware of her health issues.

One thing that would never fail to baffle me on here is how men cheat and the wives will make it out to be like the other woman is some sort of vile predator who is on the look out for any married man to devour and a happy solid marriage to destroy.
OP, I’m sorry you’re going through this but you need to understand that your husband is angling for whatever this ‘predator’ of a woman is angling for! Your husband made wedding vows to you, not this woman. Your husband left the house and AGREED to need her for a coffee when he knew that ‘no I’d rather not’ was also an option. He knows you’ve expressed concerns over his so called friendship with the woman YET he went to meet her, hid it from you and deleted messages.
He’s not an innocent. He’s a consenting adult as much as the other woman.

having said all that, give him Permanent permission to go and have coffees and flirty chats with the other woman. They both deserve each other.

Exactly the point I just made. These men are not innocent vulnerable young boys who have been coerced into cheating or having an affair. They are joint ‘partners in crime’ with the other woman

I'm sorry you are going through this. I think you should give yourself permission to not make a decision just yet - just get some space and both time and space will help you see a bit more clearly hopefully. Use your energy towards your mum, not your husband. Have you been through tough times together in the past and how did he react - did he support you? A few sessions with a therapist might be beneficial - you need help at this time and it's not coming from your husband.

Well you were all right of course. He's told me everything (I hope). Lots of overt flirting and talking about kissing and would they tell their respective partners if they did kiss and that kind of thing. He does seem visibly upset and scared now. He said he's devastated that he hasn't had integrity with his values. He does seem to understand that it's more about the dishonesty than the fucking flirting that is causing me so much pain. But I still don't know what happens now. My adult daughter came over and was amazing and is now with my two teenagers while he tells them why he might be going to sleep somewhere else this evening. She's furious with him but, honestly, is being the most grown up, mature voice of reason. I'm very proud of her!

He's such an absolute dickhead. Fucking pathetic fragile ego falling as soon as anyone pays him a bit of attention. Right now, I hate him. I never, ever thought this could happen in our marriage. It's going to take a lot of work to get past this and, as my daughter said, he has to take responsibility for the work.

I feel like such an idiot, thinking things had got better after the last talk and not listening to that tiny little voice saying 'something still isn't right'. What a naive fool, I am. And he knew I was being naive all along. It's just easier when other shit is going on to ignore stuff, isn't it?

These things are always easier to ignore than to confront OP, because confronting them means dealing with them and it sounds like you’re already at your max capacity for worry at the moment. Don’t beat yourself up over that.

I do think you need to seriously think about if you want this to be fixed, and if so for what reasons. For me personally the trust would be gone and so the relationship would be gone, I wouldn’t want a relationship of constant anxiety, worrying every time he’s out the house on his own, worrying every time I see him texting that he could be texting her or somebody else. I couldn’t live like that and (again for me personally) there is no amount of grovelling or “making up” that would wipe that slate clean, the worry would always be there and it would slowly destroy me. It would turn me into a worried, anxious, stressed person every day of my life and I wouldn’t want to live like that. That’s not what love looks like and it’s not what a marriage should be.

He won't change at all he is just scared now because he got caught sounds like it would of gone further if he didn't get caught . They probably have kissed and wished for more clearly . What a dickhead for doing this to you whilst your mum is sick how selfish and low of him . Don't trust him again if he can do it once he will again

Not a great idea, l think, to be getting your dd involved in this. Work it out between you.

He most likely hasn't told you everything. He probably fucked her. That's what adults do, they don't just kiss. You will probably never be able to fully believe a word this liar says. That's what happens when people lie repeatedly and he has only himself to blame.
You need to figure out your next move. Make preparations to leave. If by some miracle he does finally admit everything, show true remorse, stop lying and start making amends, you can change your mind, but proceed with the assumption that he won't, because they so rarely do.
Visit chumplady.com for support. She has an eye opening take on so-called emotional affairs, which in a nutshell is that they rarely ever are just emotional. A true emotional affair is just an affair that was interrupted before it got physical, but even at that, most of the time they are lying about it not being physical. Just search the entries for emotional affairs.

@ChocolateMagnum, he has clearly been having an EA (at the least) with this OW and was shining you on 2 weeks ago when he agreed to not see her again. He intentionally set up this coffee date and gaslit you on his way out the door and afterward.

It’s likely that they’ve met up more than 3 times. After all, they work together and can easily take breaks and have lunch together offsite. I would also assume that he has not yet spilled the whole story, and that they have kissed or more. The deletions speak volumes.

If my H had made a mockery of me and our family like this, he’d be out on his ear while I processed it all and learned my options from a solicitor. Your H needs to face a consequence and understand how it feels to lose you, even if it’s not permanent. He also needs to look for another job.

The problem is, when they are in the height of the the affair, they want to be kicked out.

He's obviously admitted certain things so it would appear he wants you to enfore some punishment, such as chucking him out or you going elsewhere.

They do not understand that their failure to reassure and their concealed delight in having more freedom virtually ends the marriage.

They may realise later that the grass wasn't greener, but most do not see the long term consequenses of not acting with any genuine remorse sooner.

He was a fool to take you for granted and throw your love away, and not many of those fools are capable of repairing the damage.

I'm sorry you had to go through a D Day.

Yes, but the point OP is making is she tried to point out to her husband that the other woman is showing romantic interest in him and if he cares about their marriage he would shut it down. He hasn't. That means something significant: it's not about blaming her.

I don't think I'd be getting my DCs involved just yet. It's not a good idea.

I feel your pain and devastation OP -
Your world and whole life has crashed and burnt. Life will not be the same.
This time last year I was in very similar shoes whilst my DH lead a double life behind my niave back. Only difference was he didn't delete any messages. I suspected and weeks later managed to read his phone messages- it was a sliding doors moment. Not my life but some other poor cows life. If only....

My DH definitely did not admit anything. But rather chose to drip feed and gas light me over weeks and months. Honesty would have eased the hurt instead of prolonging and digging the damage in.

You need an initial discussion with your husband- does he genuinely want/love you?
He needs a new phone number. He needs to (or even better if you do it) block her number and promise nor to engage with his OW at work unless strictly professional.

He needs to make headway into looking for a new job. He needs to be upfront about his movements- for as long as it takes.

Trust is hard and will not be gained for a long time.
Trust me, OP you are sadly at the beginning of a very painful journey- take a deep breathe - and look after yourself- counselling can help when you are ready.

You really need to keep your children out of this.

The OPs children from my understanding, is that they are older teens and one of whom is supportive so obviously keeping children that age "out of it" especially when emotions are raw is going to be very much impossible. Kids - older ones especially, do not miss much!
How are you OP?

Her kids are teenagers and one is an adult - what is she meant to say to them - daddy has gone on a trip to the moon? Infantilising children does them no favours - it means they grow up unable to see human emotions in their full complexity?

If I was the adult dd, no way would I have my mom going through this without my full support.....

Hello. It's me again. He behaved himself for a couple of weeks while my mum was having her surgery and I pretended to myself that things were getting better. He's been having counselling. I knew things weren't really getting better, though. I just didn't want to believe it. He's been journalling and used to trust I wouldn't read it. I wouldn't have. Except then he started hiding it very, very carefully. So this evening when he went out, I was determined to find it because I know there must be things in there he doesn't want me to know, which means there are things he's lying about to me. And I was right. He's still talking to this woman. I am irritating him. He thinks I'm very controlling. Anyway, the upshot is that this marriage, at the moment, is not workable. If he's not prepared to talk to me openly about what's going on for him and he's willing to keep lying to me, then I can't stay with him. But I don't know what the hell to do!

I'm happy to be honest with him that I've read some of his journal and ask him outright what he wants. But if he wants to separate, can I make him be the one to leave the family home? I don't want to disrupt my life or our children's just because he's a fucking manchild.

I'm absolutely devastated and really don't want to talk to my mum or anyone because I'm so fucking embarrassed that I've been telling everyone how wonderfully he's responded to this all.

Can anyone advise?

I’m sorry OP, it’s a really difficult situation. Ultimately you can’t make him leave the family home if he doesn’t want to, so it may be time to think about getting your ducks in a row to leave yourselves. Good luck x