Help! I'm so weak and can't bring myself to leave.

[Wormworld7]

This isn't my first post here, so there is a paper trail of some of my experiences with this.

The fog has cleared. After months of things getting worse and worse, I now accept and can see that I'm stuck in an abusive relationship with a narcissist.

He has gaslit me, called me names, twisted every altercation back onto me, he's aggressive, nasty and angry. I've held onto some delusional hope that he can change, or he will grow. I'm seeing now that even my behaviour is akin to patterns of being a victim of a narcissistic abuser.

I'm too kind. I'm too tolerant and forgiving. I mean what I say and I say what I mean, he plays twisted games and I get suckered in. I like to think I have a decent level of emotional maturity, it's a work in progress anyways.

We live together, have a 1 year old and a baby due in December. I can't bring myself to stop trying to talk to him and get him to understand my perspective and what he's done. I can't stop seeing the rational side to it and thinking anyone with half a brain would get it. All he does is react worse, more nasty, more abusive with every attempt. I feel so stuck. I don't know where to go from here.

I'm really trying to stop talking, but it seems I'm weak and still holding onto hope. Even though I know deep down it won't work, every time is "the last time ill try"

Please help!

If you won’t leave op, what do you expect people to say? You know he won’t change. Please leave for the sake of your kids if not yourself. Where do you go from here? A lawyer.. (Btw I am not unsympathetic - I had one of these. I found the strength to end it from somewhere, and it took me years but I did it. Life is immeasurably better now).

Its not that I won't leave,I'm trying. I'm trying so hard to just stop interacting with him.

My point is the more he acts like he doesn't care, the more I care. Its heartbreaking. Most normal healthy people, react to a breakup with some level of upset, hurt, distress. Its driving me crazier that he is set on watching me hurt without a care in the world.

I'm aware people can't make me leave. But if anyone has ever experienced these feelings I'm feeling, it's those people I'd like to comment and give some advice on how they broke these patterns.

We don't need any legal advice, it's the emotional disconnect I'm struggling with

I think this post is a massive step forward for you. You have now made a decision - you will leave - and that’s the first hurdle.

Now you’ve made a decision you just need to not change your mind no matter what he says. Make a list of the things he’s done, why it’s manipulative and how it made you feel and, every time you feel yourself wavering just re read that list.

It is complicated with kids but have you heard of the grey rock method of communication? You basically do not respond to anything not child related and with bare minimum efficiency. Do not get into any conversation about anything else including your relationship, arguments, historical issues, reasons for break up etc etc.

Tell him once and for all that the relationship is over, you will not change your mind and that is that. Then start grey rock communication and every single day it will get easier and easier.

Moth to the flame - were you rejected in your childhood- did you keep trying for affection/ a reaction - a lot of this sounds like learned behaviour and you could benefit from counselling.

Ah got you op, that update helps. I know the feelings well. My ex was a cruel bastard towards the end. I read a lot on narcissist behaviour which helped me understand things. A point that resonated was Don’t Expect Closure - these men don’t care. They just don’t care. You need to find your own closure - don’t try and understand his behaviour because he thinks differently to most people.

Also, I was broken up with for someone my ex had an affair with. I was in a very similar position to you because I had a 4 year old and was 4 months pregnant with our second when he dumped me.

I was utterly heartbroken and he was happy and living his life exactly how he wanted with his new relationship and no regret or upset at all.

For months I begged and tried and cried and argued and did everything I could to try and make him come back to me. I felt as I imagine you feel now (although the fact it wasn’t my decision did probably make it easier).

One day we argued about it as usual and something just switched. I realised that he wasn’t the man I thought he was and the realisation of how awful and hurtful and selfish his behaviour to me had been just hit me like a truck. And I decided then I didn’t want him back and would just pretend to be happy until I actually was happy.

That was almost a year ago and I am so much happier on my own with my two kids than I was treading on eggshells and putting up with his moods and wondering which version of him I would get in the evenings.

It’s so so hard but if you never start the journey, you’ll never get to that better place that I promise is waiting for you on the other side

Thank you. This is solid advice, and I was thinking of getting myself a notebook to start writing things down, so I'm onto it!

Yes, I have heard of grey Rock. I managed it for a few days, and then I start to soften and act more friendly. Or the opposite, he can't handle the atmosphere with grey rocking so he starts triggering me for a reaction.

He's behaving the way he is now to make you feel abandoned and desperate for him again. He's taking the power and control away from you. Leaving is YOUR decision. How he acts from now on (and there will be many different behaviours) are all attempts to control you and reel you back in. Either with a carrot or a stick, as someone helpfully said on here to me.

Practice grey rock, don't give him any emotion or vulnerability to latch onto, tell yourself that his behaviours are all tactics. Use this thread as your outlet for any pain or frustration and read it back to yourself when you're feeling weak.

It's really fucking difficult OP but the women of Mumsnet will hold your hand through it. We've got you.

Yes. I've worked on my childhood wounds a lot, but clearly they are still very much present and only triggered by certain events or people. I wasn't rejected specifically, but there was emotional neglect and domestic abuse in general, so I am aware of these patterns deep within

Yeah, it's the closure thing I find so difficult. The ending if a meaningful relationship with children involved and a proposed "future" should feel, to most people, not easy! I'm.struggling with the idea of cutting it off with not even acknowledgment from the other side that this is happening.

I have been doing lots of research into narcissistic behaviour, it's helping a lot! I will keep going!

Leaving is the biggest step according to a friend, once she left with her child that was it. Stayed with her mum initially, then purchased a house (which fell through) but has just bought a property.

It’s smaller, plainer, she has less money but she has freedom and she’s happy and so is her child.

I think you may have had a similar 'desperation to repair' situation with one of your parents when you were younger? If you tried hard enough, sometimes it would work, and they would see your side? Or they had that situation between them, and you grew up observing it?

You've learned this 'If I try hard enough, they will understand me, and love me' thing, somewhere. Nobody is born with it. We are born with the bit of us inside that says 'oi! that's not fair to me!', and we are then conditioned to silence it (unless we are very well parented)

But really, what can you achieve here? Even if he suddenly turned perfect and apologised for everything, he's still a man with a long term history of abusing you, and you don't want to begin a new relationship with that, anyway. So, even if you try really hard and it works, what have you gained?

If you stay, your children will learn that, when being abused, what they need to do is try to get their abuser to understand them, and they are to try as hard as they can at this, regardless of how bad the abuse is. Don't demonstrate this to them as what adulthood looks like. My mum did that for me. She never left him, and I stuck with a series of hideous relationships into my 40s, until it got so bad I started counselling, to work out what was wrong with me. The only thing wrong with my was my partner. Don't do it to your kids. Show them an adult who walks away from unpleasant treatment.

That sounds so tough, proud of you for finding that inner strength and clarity! I think I'm waiting for that "aha!" Moment to strike. But in the mean time, this limbo stage of waiting for my mind/body to catch up with reality, feels like a slog. Alongside being pregnant and caring for a toddler, being scared of parenting a newborn and a toddler alone- I found the newborn stage so difficult, the man in question was actually really hands on, helpful and aside from the way he treats me, hes a really good dad and we share the load. I'm so worried about being so out of my depth and alone.

This book has really helped me. Also 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft, which is available as a free PDF online if you Google it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Was-Even-Abuse-Restoring-clarity/dp/1739102606?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=be15c470-8ec7-4535-b468-a99ce80bab85

Thank you. This comment is a gold standard comment. Exactly why I posted. Exactly what I know I need to do. Amazing what the support of strangers can push us to do!

I think what I struggle the most with, is having this insight into his behaviour, is almost a double edged sword. Knowing his approach and tactics comes from a place of vulnerability, insecurity etc I see it as him not really wanting the relationship to end, but just not having the tools to communicate that in a healthy way, so we get all of this. Ridiculous of me, I know. But when he plays games, I can mostly see through what he really means and get caught up in the whole feeling empathy for him for being this way from childhood trauma etc! It's that that leaves me in my stuckness.

But I suppose i need to stop making this about him and focus on myself and only myself, and the children!

This. Everything you said is spot on. I witnessed it between my parents. I see my mother in my recent behaviour and its ugly and I hate myself for it! Everything you said is correct, and what the rational part of me is running with that's kept me going this far. I wish the mind weren't so complex that these comments will Wax and wane in my mind. Going back and forth between rationality and strength and weakness and pain. It's so hard!

Childhood trauma can really mess people up, and it's ok to feel sympathy. But how far you let their trauma affect you is a different matter. It may may people prone to violence; do you offer yourself to be hit? It may make people prone to self medicating via gambling; do you give them all your money? It may make people depressed; do you spend your life in a room with them with the curtains closed, trying in vain to support them?

It is his trauma. Let it be his. He is no longer being traumatised by his parents, so he's creating it for himself now, and as such, it's his responsibility to sort out. Currently, he eases his pain by passing it to you. Stop offering yourself up. Let him be responsible for his own shit, and you be responsible for yours. It's not your job to convince him out of his trauma. You have tried, and now there are 2 traumatised people. Step away. You're like a bottle to a drinker. Let him find another way to deal with his trauma than passing it on to someone else.

It is the same for you: you stay because you are traumatised by your childhood, but rather than looking in, it's easier to look out, and try to fix someone else's childhood trauma. Take responsibility for what is yours: you, and your own well being. Volunteering yourself for his abuse means that you don't have to change anything: you've always been treated like this, it's the devil you know, and you know it really really well. It's an uncomfortable comfort zone, and it's easier to stay than look at the inner workings hard enough to enable you to leave. But this is your life. Every day that goes by is a day you have less to live. Every time you choose to stay for his abuse, is a day you are not taking deep breaths, fully relaxing.

Do you feel that you were put here with the purpose of providing for him what you currently provide? If not, what else could you be?

Sadly the only reason I know all of that is because I'm going through a very similar situation right now. The support and strength I've had from the wise women of Mumsnet has been absolutely crucial in keeping my perspective and resolve. So when I say keep posting, I really mean it.

It's one thing to understand it all objectively and it's quite another to emotionally detach from it. I think it really is a case of faking it until you make it. But it's really, really fucking hard. We all get that.

I hate myself for it

What else do you judge yourself for?

Everything you do makes complete sense. Staying for his abuse makes sense. Behaving like your mother makes sense. Hoping he'll see your point of view makes sense. Going back and forth in your mind makes sense. Everything you judge yourself for is something that you've learned, because you're smart, and you recognised what worked and what didn't, and now you do the things that worked as hard as you can, until you break, because you're dedicated and your strong and because love is important to you.

All of your behaviours are explainable. There is nothing complicated, even though it feels like there is. You are very dedicated to your cause, and you will not let go.

There's nothing about you to judge negatively; you're smart, dedicated, intensely loving, expert at forgiving. Imagine this person, in healthy circumstances. What a woman, eh?

Your circumstances are toxic. You are guilty of one thing, and nothing else: staying with him. Walk away, and all your 'faults' become assets.

I think it really is a case of faking it until you make it

I'm not so sure about this. There are 2 voices inside. The one who tells you what to do, and the one that feels hard done to about it. If we choose to listen to one, we have to choose to disregard the other. The switch is in recognising that your feelings are not at fault, and that that voice is the one to listen to, and the one not to listen to is the conditioned one, the one with the voice of your parents and your partner.

It's almost a case of switching off the faking. All of the 'putting up with his behaviour' you've done, is faking. It's not the real you. The real you would have stood up and said 'Stop treating me that way, or you won't see me again' years ago, but your condition, the act you've been trained to display, didn't let her.

It's more like ' 'unfake' it and you have made it'

Well done for planning to leave OP.

Sadly, very sadly, if he has NPD there is absolutely nothing at all you can do or say to make him see it and change. Most people with NPD struggle to change even with therapy with a specialist.

Well done for starting grey rock. I have my own version of this that I call waffly grey rock. So obviously he will notice you reply to him with curt ‘sure’ to a question and know you are being disengaged. So instead use more words. None of which give him any insight into your emotional state.

So things like ‘ok sure. I’ll have a look at that later, I’m just going to take the washing out, glad that’s done as I really need those jeans after spilling coffee on them last week I should have washed them sooner’. Now that’s a lot of waffle. He can’t say you’re ignoring him. Also he got nothing from you. He might try and ruin the jeans. But obviously you didn’t really care about them it was just a reason to walk away grey rocking. He might say ‘I don’t give a shit about the washing’ but by then you’re on your way out of the door and can say ‘ok well we can catch up in a few minutes then but I must get them sorted.’

He says something mean like ‘are you going out like that/what have you done to your hair etc?’ You say oh yes I am I used a new brush maybe you aren’t used to my new style I think I’ll leave it for now though’ ‘yes I am I chose these jeans as they are practical if I have to sit with DC and this top as it doesn’t show marks. Also I like it so that’s me for the day ‘. Again a lot of words. He gets nothing to feed off.

It takes practice but it’s immensely satisfying and does confuse the narcissist. Also have some grey rock responses ready for when he really goes for it with what he knows upsets you most. So you aren’t caught off guard. Throw in some ‘oh this one again….Yes for some reason I’m not so bothered about this anymore. I guess we all change as time goes on. I see what you think, I think differently but that’s ok isn’t it. Everyone’s different. That’s what makes life so interesting sometimes I guess….’

So start making plans to leave though OP. Managing a NPD adult is exhausting. Your life will be so much lighter and happier without it.

I 100% understand how you also see the vulnerable nature of your OH. It can break your heart sometimes thinking what he could be. I know you want to help him. But you can’t. You can help yourself and DC though.

💐

This is so good.

I'm a bit weary of this response to explaining why I stay. Whilst I did experience some traumatic events as a child and I don't understand trauma bonding, I feel like this view shifts some blame back to me, the victim.

So I do understand that I have been left with attachment wounds that leave me more susceptible to staying, I think it's unfair to paint it that I'm avoiding my own trauma and trying to simply "fix" somebody else. Childhood trauma aside, he's a shitty person, and I'm a decent one.

Thank you for this. It's true and I know it. The fog clearing does come with me realising I'm a decent human being and not blaming myself for any of the downfalls in the relationship. I do know I've not been perfect, and that was difficult to deal with for a while, as i was manipulated into believing I was also as much as problem as him.

I've since learned that most of my shitty actions are me reacting to his abuse. He didn't just wake up one day and start treating me like absolute crap, it's been a long road to get to this point. It starts with him seeming like he struggles with anger and communication, progressing to me being stone walled and ignored for days. Snippets of him being aggressive and impatient throughout the day. And I guess that road makes it harder to see it all clearly

I like this perspective, thank you. I'm not one for inauthenticity, and that's one way he's managed to use my own vulnerabilities against me. There are elements I think i probably do have to fake, for the sake of being a functional adult and mother. But it's true I shouldn't and don't want to fake it all, but rather feel all the feelings needed to get to the place I need to go.