Help! I'm so weak and can't bring myself to leave.

[Wormworld7]

This isn't my first post here, so there is a paper trail of some of my experiences with this.

The fog has cleared. After months of things getting worse and worse, I now accept and can see that I'm stuck in an abusive relationship with a narcissist.

He has gaslit me, called me names, twisted every altercation back onto me, he's aggressive, nasty and angry. I've held onto some delusional hope that he can change, or he will grow. I'm seeing now that even my behaviour is akin to patterns of being a victim of a narcissistic abuser.

I'm too kind. I'm too tolerant and forgiving. I mean what I say and I say what I mean, he plays twisted games and I get suckered in. I like to think I have a decent level of emotional maturity, it's a work in progress anyways.

We live together, have a 1 year old and a baby due in December. I can't bring myself to stop trying to talk to him and get him to understand my perspective and what he's done. I can't stop seeing the rational side to it and thinking anyone with half a brain would get it. All he does is react worse, more nasty, more abusive with every attempt. I feel so stuck. I don't know where to go from here.

I'm really trying to stop talking, but it seems I'm weak and still holding onto hope. Even though I know deep down it won't work, every time is "the last time ill try"

Please help!

Yes. I can relate to the waffling style of grey rock! I do find the atmosphere for grey rocking quite unsettling. I suppose turning on my happy chirpy self makes it easier and a better atmosphere for the children.

It does hurt thinking how it could be. I'm struggling to accept that side of things a lot.

Have you ever seen a counselor OP? That might be a good place to start.

Counselling isn't really my kind of therapy. I have worked with therapists, but I like to pursue self development via multiple avenues.

I like the waffly grey rock approach! It's less obvious.

You are not weak. You are strong because you've seen through it. It is tempting to be sucked back in but you need to remind yourself he is abusive. I liken it to the ring in Lord of the Rings. It looks pretty, shiny, tempting, and it may turn you into Gollum who just can't help being seduced by it. But remind yourself it's actually really really bad for you. It's trying to trick you. Every single thing that comes out of his mouth is a strategy designed to confuse and control you. He'll employ several strategies to get what he wants. Remember nothing he says is sincere. It's impossible to have a sincere conversation with a narcissist. Have some mantras in your head to keep reminding yourself.

I've since learned that most of my shitty actions are me reacting to his abuse

Yup. You can also look at this via the 'In which areas of my life am I shitty?' lens. When you realise that you're never shitty anywhere, except with one person, and you're really shitty with them, it starts to become very clear where the toxin is.

Creating a happy life is essentially creating a life in which you avoid all situations that make you behave shittily, because when you behave shittily, it's because you feel shit. So if you're never in a situation where you feel shit... you're happy, by default, or content, or something else favourable. I did this. I cut out all the people with whom I behaved poorly, and kept all the ones I was naturally soft and squidgy with. It's amazing. You can remove all fault and blame, and just make that one decision: those are not 'your people'. Et voila! 90% of drama, gone!

Honestly, it's like the devil himself has been sent to tempt me. That's how it feels. And every time I fall back in there's a part of me that knows I'm doing myself a disservice and further damage down the line. Then there's the inner battle between the inner me that sees the good in everyone and thinks that people are mostly good, but what happens to them makes them bad. Then que the cycle of me feeling like "If I jist say this one last thing, maybe I'll get through" he is human after all, with a functioning brain and rational adult life.

Two possible 'aha' points

1. he doesn't like you any more but enjoys abusing you. The responsible thing for him to have done is to have left you but he can't manage that- so you have to do it for him

2. he is treating you badly and your children are experiencing it. The responsible thing for you to do is to stop the situation by leaving. It will stop him behaving like he is if you are not there. (This goes against implicit cultural norms but it's the only thing to stop the situation. Negative patterns are too ingrained to change)

The thing with this view is, that's been used against me. I'm the only girlfriend he's ever had. And so I'm the only person he's ever behaved like this with. I've had previously toxic relationships, with partners and parents/family members. So he will often throigh up the fact that I'm the common denominator, leaving me questioning myself even more.

But when the mist clears, I kniw it's not me. I'm a reasonable person, and his actions to me come across as pure evil! I cannot comprehend it, so almost make it my business to try, when it is not!

So that's where I struggle, because deeper than the surface u hist see him as a deeply insecure little boy who is afraid to love and get close to somebody put of fear. His problem with me isn't with me at all, but with himself.

The thing with this view is, that's been used against me

Yes, it works that way round, too. Avoid people you think you behave shittily around, and also avoid people who tell you that you behave shittily. Just keep away from anywhere where you being shitty is one of the regularly available options.

And every time I fall back in there's a part of me that knows I'm doing myself a disservice and further damage down the line

This is the real you. The real you isn't the bit that sees good in everyone. That's conditioning. You're not as kind and sweet and forgiving as you've been trained to be. There is a badass inside, and she has never been listened to, respected, heard, even. I bet she has rarely, if ever, spoken aloud. And yet she's your heart. She's the part of you that does 'happy', 'fulfilled', 'comfortable', 'safe', 'contented', 'peaceful'... she's the part of you that holds your self esteem, and unless you start to listen to her, you will not be able to have any of those things in your life in any decent proportion. The shitty bits of your behaviour are the bits where she is trying so desperately to be heard that she shouts, and if she isn't heard, she screams, and it she still isn't heard, she might lash out. But have sympathy for her. You have been in many toxic relationships, including your family when you were little; she has never, ever been listened to. Can you understand why she screams? It's time to listen to her.

see him as a deeply insecure little boy who is afraid to love and get close to somebody put of fear. His problem with me isn't with me at all, but with himself

He needs to do the same thing. But in the same way that nobody could do it for you, you can't do it for him. That little boy is solely his responsibility.

Yeah, its that. Having experienced some progress with my own inner child, u don't consider myself an expert, but I see patterns and I'm like wow, I see you, knowing or seeing what is going on with someone where they can't see themselves is so frustrating. Not to mention the fact we have children together,so he is essentially still my problem in the sense that, these traits of his from these unhealed parts of him, will likely be witnessed and potentially passed onto my children. Hence an even greater need to "help" or guide him

I don't know here. I'm not so sure if seeing the good in everyone is conditioning. I see people heavily traumatised by their pasts and they trust nobody and only see the bad. Being optimistic and seeing light in this world does feel very authentic to me. Seeing the damaged little children in others, because I too have felt that. I feel like it's more the opposite for me. I was this bright, optimistic Ray of light as a kid, and slowly it got dimmed. Then I did some work on myself, 10+ years of reflecting and changing habits and destructive patterns, and the light came back, the glass half full girl shone through again.

You're right though that I've never beeb heard, not really. And I used to massively overcompensate for that by being this hugely loud "bubbly" character. As I did the work, that ego faded and i became more humble, less loud, less out there and less of a need to be a spectacle. I guess those wounds have now found ways to show up more subtly, in a 1-1 relationship. I may not need to be loud anymore, but I still need to be heard, understood and validated - but don't we all? Isn't that what human connection is all about?

That's where you're making your mistake- thinking he's rational and can be reasoned with. If he's a narcissist, he has lied to himself all his life about who and what he is. He has built an impenetrable protective shell against hearing the truth about himself, because the truth would shatter his false self. His false self is the defensive, inauthentic identity he has created to mask his insecurity. Underneath that he has no idea who he is, so losing it would feel catastrophic. There is nothing you can say which will get past defences he has spent his whole life building. It's time to accept that and put your energy to better use preparing to leave. There will be no closure. He will never give you that. I'm sorry. It sucks.

The thing that made me leave was seeing the look of fear on my DC's face when he was shouting at me. No way am I ever allowing my child to be frightened by him again. No way am I letting my DC learn that shouting and verbal abuse is acceptable. I love them too much for that.

There is a reason a child witnessing abuse is classed as abuse. Leave now so you are not complicit in your children experiencing this.

Yeah, I pretty much know this. It's just back and forth dancing with the devil, so to speak. Its easy to assume common sense, is common, for example lol and sometimes quite difficult to grasp that people could really be so stupid.

Totally agree though, and I see all of this. And I guess it's my understanding that underneath it all, there is a human being in there who can be vulnerable and true. Its holding onto that which I believe is possible, albeit a very very slim possibility.

Yes thank you. The abuse I have experienced is more cunning and hidden than direct shouting. It lures me in to look like its not abuse. Shutting down, stone walling and then he will explode because of "my actions". But yes you're right. I need to stay strong for my children, I know this so badly.

I see people heavily traumatised by their pasts and they trust nobody and only see the bad. Being optimistic and seeing light in this world does feel very authentic to me

Conditioning does feel authentic, that's the problem with it; you think that's who you are, and you think that the way you see the world is 'right' and 'accurate'. Can you not see the lack of balance in your worldview? It's as if people are either 'good' or 'bad', with no in between, and if they're 'good' you have to forgive them everything, with no grey areas or boundaries.

I was this bright, optimistic Ray of light as a kid

Everybody is. But children need parents, because they haven't learned where to put their own boundaries. You seem to think that having boundaries and turning someone away because they've treated you horribly is somehow wrong.

If you insist on seeing a hurt little boy you need to comfort in this

He has gaslit me, called me names, twisted every altercation back onto me, he's aggressive, nasty and angry

then how badly would someone need to behave towards you, before you would say 'enough'? Do you really think that seeing the good in everybody is what that little girl in you would have done, when she was, say, 4? Do you think that if someone had abused her, she would have said 'Oh, well, he's just hurting, himself, isn't he', or would she just have cried and cried and cried?

I don't think they are either good or bad, with no in between. I'm fully aware of the nuance in people. I just mean i don't expect malice in most peoples actions. The majority of people are just traumatised. This doesn't mean I forgive them..or don't have boundaries and hold people to them. I very much do. And I don't always forgive easily. But I do understand and dig beneath the surface of what I'm seeing.

I'm not struggling to be upset with how he's treated me, because I understand it or see the hirt little wounded child in him. I don't even excuse it. I do cry and cry and cry! I have gotten to the point where enough is enough. I reached it long ago, just waiting for the rest of me to catch up.

I left a narcissist. It was really challenging and stressful to do it but I'm so very glad i did. There was a while between realising what a piece of work he was and actually leaving but it was all part of the realisation that nothing he said was authentic.

I followed the grey rock method to manage communication with him after i left as it was the only way to actually address childcare and any other issues. Doing anything else just created more issues for me.

If he is actually a narcissist then do be prepared for his behaviour to get worse if and when you leave as he will punish you for doing so.

Yeah, I'm trying grey rock. There has been some time for me now realising this, but recently it's becoming really, really clear to me.

I think he's already doing the punishment thing. He's never been the type of narc that begs me to stay when I say I'm leaving. He cannot ever be vulnerable. So what he does instead is act so so cold, nasty and gets even more aggressive. Like he doesn't care. And it does punish me. Because I'm a human being with feelings. Seeing someone I thoight had a future with, say they couldn't care less if you leave, it's icy and really tough! It gets to me a lot. That's where I struggle.

I missed this comment yesterday! Looks like a great read, just purchased! Thanks 😊

The fog has cleared. After months of things getting worse and worse, I now accept and can see that I'm stuck in an abusive relationship with a narcissist.

This is AMAZING. This is huge progress. Making this progress after months is very very good. It takes a lot of people years to see this. You are doing really well. Don't get sucked into the instant gratification mongers on here (unless they are helping you ) Obviously we all wish we could pluck you from the screen and put you somewhere safe but that is no use if you are not ready to leave, because you'll go back. Most people go back. It takes an average of 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship. It is also possible to do it on the first attempt - I did. But I would not judge you for a second if you need more.

The Lundy book is genuinely life-changing. Absolutely read it, it will help. Make sure he can't find it, that it doesn't show up on any emails or joint kindle libraries.

If there are still threads on here for people stuck in limbo in an abusive or unhealthy relationship, join them. Or start one. It is so so so so so valuable to be able to compare your abuser's behaviour with other people's day to day experiences - because it is SO uncanny the way they all behave exactly the same, and it helps you detach and realise that they are not actually in a relationship with you in the way that you want to be with them. They never have been and they never will be, because they are not capable of that. They hold up a cardboard cut out of a relationship and say the right things, but they don't have an understanding of what that means.

People who have not had experience of an abusive relationship or worked closely with abuse victims don't get it - they just see the horrible stuff and think why on earth would anybody stay?? But there is a part of it - I've had abusive relationships and healthy ones - there is a part of it which is just the same. The familiarity and the fondness and the love for them. And abusers can somehow feel very very vulnerable to you in a way that you almost feel responsible for them, because you know people see the horrible side.

The experience of being loved in a non-abusive way is very different, but the experience of how I loved them was not different. And I think people don't understand that and don't see how difficult it is to extract that. The emotional, heart part of you and the rational, brain part of you don't really speak the same language and to some extent will never understand one another, sometimes you actually just need to leave instead of waiting for the heart to catch up to the brain, because you can't rationalise yourself out of love with somebody. Actually I think the only way to do this is to figure out a way to give yourself "the ick"

Baggage Reclaim, also - a brilliant website, I was linked it on here years ago and I absolutely love every word on it. Natalie Lue is extremely perceptive and very wise. I haven't listened to her podcast but I bet that would be good as well.