Dh being a nightmare, dd upset

[Doubtfuldaphne]

Dh has been snappy and miserable for quite a long time but generally fine he just doesn’t have much patience with the dc’s. Last year on holiday he was very argumentative mainly aimed at dd and they bicker like siblings which drives me mad as he’s a grown man.
Things were going better after and this month he took her abroad while I stayed behind as I have work commitments. First few days were fine then I get to hear from dd that he’s being awful. Arguing with her then prodded her hard on the shoulder and had a go at her in public because she kept going on about wanting things from the shops apparently. He also made some comments about how he’s embarrassed of her in front of others and her there. When I told him I knew about this and I was very angry and upset, he got very angry and defensive saying it’s all made up but I know dd wouldn’t lie. She’s really upset and stuck with him until they come back in a couple of days. He’s obviously angry because his behaviour’s been exposed and he’s playing the victim. I’ve just had enough of this and dd has too, she is only 13. What should be my next move?

They’re grown up so it’s very different. They also don’t have the best relationship with him!

This has just put me in mind of this guy this guy met I my teens who was part of our friend group. Every relationship he was on was characterised by them arguing. At first it was assumed that this was 'just how they were as a couple' and couldn't tell who started it. But obviously as rhe girlfriends progressed you could see he was simply goading women into these circular arguments. Which were actually, abuse.

I suspect your partner would treat any vulnerable young woman the same. Probably has in the past. Do not make the mistake of think of it as two people arguing. It is not. He is a bully and he is bullying her.

This could have massive implications for her future as we tend to repeat what we perceive as the norm for relationships. It could mean she chooses nasty abusive men and thinks she has to tolerate abuse. Also, that she thinks her kids kids have to tolerate abuse from her spouse if it suits her.

Staying with him also shows that her mum does not have her back. And isn't a safe person for her.

Yes I’ve thought of this too and don’t want the cycle to continue. It’s so obvious it’s not a healthy relationship and she deserves better. I’m just trying to plan now what steps I need to take as we rent together. Last time there was a big blow up he refused to leave and I had nowhere to go either. I don’t have savings to move house but can support myself and her financially once we’re out.

I think you've gotta just stand firm. Think of it this way, after this man refused to leave your home when you split up with him - you got back with him! That's nuts! Right?

I understand wanting to plan your steps this time. But should things kick off, remeber 'no means no', don't get back with him for a quiet life. Because every time you do that, you show your daughter that actually you don't choose your own life, he chooses it for you and what you want as a woman means nothing.

Her daughter is 13 so she has agency if her parents divorce.
She absolutely can decide to limit the time she sees him and not over night.

So what if he is her father.
He is a bully who is abusing his child.
His daughter will be listened to and heard if she is given the opportunity to choose how much she wants to be around a father who bullys, belittles and humiliates her.

Contact Women's aid today.
Spell it out to them that he is abusing your child and you need help to get away.
Involve SS's, self report.
Involve the police, ring 101.

Perhaps if he sees you expose him fully he will move out.
Stop protecting him ahead of your child.

You can do this.
Expose him.

I think the reason he’s so angry now is because he knows he isn’t getting away with it and he’s panicking wondering what I’ll do next. He’s brought it all on himself. I think I will just tell him it’s over when they get back. We will have to co habit until I can find somewhere for us to live. I hope he doesn’t make it unbearable. I will just detach and do what I can to protect dd. If things escalate I will contact who I need to.

It does sound like you have reached the end of your tether with his behaviour.

At her age, DD will be able to make her own decisions about how much time she spends with him once you split.

One thing that did occur to me is that you need to avoid referencing DH behaviour to DD specifically as a reason for splitting. She may start defending him and/or blame herself.

Are you on a fixed term or rolling tenancy? You can tell the landlord you want to end the tenancy (one month notice) if on a rolling one. If you talk to him/her, they may put only you on the tenancy once it’s ended, although a darn sight easier to move somewhere different (and cheaper?)

I hope your dd is ok for the next couple of days.

Good point about dd and me referencing this as the reason for separating. I don’t want her to blame herself but her messages have even been saying to me ‘what will you do as he’s done this before and he never changes’. She is worried others will blame her but I’ve reassured her it’s not her fault.
I think it’ll be easier just to move out as it’s remote here and I don’t drive. It’ll cost more rent wise but I don’t really have a choice but to move. I have contacted the council today.

Absolutely make it clear that it is his general behaviour and she has zero responsibility for anything.
Stress to the council that you and your daughter are being abused and you are desperate to get away.

I would be very concerned about your daughters MH on the back of such prolonged bullying.
It is absolutely toxic to a child's mental health and leaves them feeling so powerless.

Do not under report this.
Make it clear how serious it is and how concerned you are for her.

You can do this.
Tell people.
Stop keeping silent.

He knows bloody well what he is doing and is only concerned for himself.
Bullying prick.

Ok so I’ve emailed women’s aid and sent screenshots of what my daughter has sent me so will take it from there. I have been on the verge of a panic attack for two days now and they come back tonight. I hear he is blaming me and is angry with me for ruining their holiday. I haven’t done anything apart from stand up to his behaviour though

Why oh why do women stay with these emotionally "not there" men/not grown up kids at the expense of their children????

OP wants to leave her relationship. Do you think this helps her?

OP, you sound afraid of him and his anger.
Are you?
If you are, would you ring 101 for advice?
Tell them that he has been abusing you both and is very angry over you challenging him over his treatment of your daughter.
Could you text him and ask him to stay elsewhere because of his treatment of her so that ye all can have space?
Get what you can on text.
Can you ring your GP and ask for an appointment for your daughter?
Do you have any family you could visit....or even send your daughter to visit?

No I’m not scared of him at all it’s just having to face the stress and tension around him once he’s back. He’s obviously not in the best mood and I just want some peace. I have no family and my friends live a long way away. I am in touch with them daily though. I don’t feel I am being abused I just think with his general grumpiness and laziness I’ve had enough but the matter with dd is a different story and I’m just going to do whatever it takes to protect her now.

Very best of luck OP. I think you are doing the right thing.

I have seen lots of long-running threads for people who are leaving relationships, so if it helps then MN can be a support.

Ahead of him coming home, it might be a good idea to get your important documents together and keep them somewhere safe - including your marriage certificate.

I hear he is blaming me and is angry with me for ruining their holiday?

You weren't even there and it's still your fault? Let that sink in.

Yes it says a lot, I think he’s panicking and doing everything he can to misdirect the blame

Try and be really calm about it.
Don’t argue or get drawn in to squabbling.
If he starts ranting just go quiet and wait for him to finish.
Don't bother telling him what he’s done wrong, or answer accusations that you’re being unreasonable.
If you can sell it as an advantage for him, that will help!
Stick to a simple statement you can repeat. We aren’t happy. This isn’t working. DD and I are going to leave when I am able to organise somewhere.

Thank you. I have been telling myself today to stay calm, don’t get drawn into arguments or anything. Just ‘grey rock’ I think the phrase is. It is difficult, we’ve been married so many years. Even though I know it’s the right thing it is still hard but it just has to be done.

Absolutely.

And remember, he isn’t happy either. Keep reminding him how unhappy he is!

Yes!!

Just an update, WA said not to say I’m leaving as that could escalate things and I’ve also spoken to my local DA support service. They’re so slow to get back to me though and I just want to get things moving. I still haven’t spoken a word to dh and he hasn’t attempted to either. Dd is asking regularly what’s going to happen so I’m just reassuring her.
What to do about this awful silence though? The atmosphere is so hostile and awkward. We can’t go and stay anywhere.

Just talk trivialities. Avoid anything contentious.

It’s only uncomfortable because it’s supposed to be a close relationship. Knowing as you do that it isn’t, it’s more like house share rules. Whatever it takes to keep the peace.