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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Spouse is a chronic complainer- needing some insight and guidance.

32 replies

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 22:43

I’m in the US. I’m a parent to an almost 3 year old- husband works overnight. I work days. We are both full time. I get home to relieve him and he goes to bed from 4pm-830. Shift starts at 9p. He will then get an additional amount of sleep post shift anywhere from 1-3 hours, usually in between.
On weekends, I relieve him completely and he will get 5-7 hours of sleep for those 2 days. This has been our schedule since our child was 5 months (he had paid parental leave for 5 months).

Ive told him from the very beginning his lack of sleep isn’t healthy. I’ve said since we knew the timeframe of when he’d be going back to work that this schedule is NOT conducive to his physical health either and will impact his mental health too- I’ve gone as far as to say it’ll affect his parenting. My mom even said it to me when she was still alive. We’ve gotten into massive fights about getting help because he says no one will be capable of handling our child like he does.

He has outright refused any and all help. When my parents (who have since both passed now)- offered to help pay for a nanny for us even just a few days a week and for only a few hours a day to get some relief; he again outright refused. When inheritance money came in, I offered to use that to hire someone IN HOME again even just a few hours 1-2 days a week. He outright refuses. And, he’s refused daycare due to cost and the fear of our child become injured or killed in the hands of daycare works (which has been perpetuated by articles he’s read).

Ive asked: “is there ANYONE you’d trust to watch our child even to try one day a week; come by at noon- you get to sleep maybe at the latest 1pm all the way to 830- and I’d be able to relieve the person when I get home by 4PM.” Again, huge anger on his part for me even bringing it up.

His mom has recently moved into town and even now she’s being shut down as an option. He seems to not trust her alone with him because per his words; she’s careless and doesn’t have the proper parenting values that we do. Like giving a 3 year old soda, as an example… we don’t even give our child juice… so now he’s outright rejected even his mom coming to watch him alone because he thinks she will do stupid things.

so here is my dilemma: he complains practically every day multiple times a day about how exhausted he is, and most of the time I’m validating him, acknowledging him, letting him spew his complaints out. I’m fully aware how exhausting and tiring his schedule is. However, a good portion of his complaints are led with blame on our child for, not having slept longer in the morning or some type of our child causing X, Y, Z… which brings negativity into my mental state.

I have attempted to “shoulder or solution?” communication tool- he has said he just wants to be able to complain whenever he wants (and 99.99% of the time) it is about his lack of sleep- usually it being caused because of our child. He has said “I thought I was being funny. I complain for sport. I didn’t see it as a negative thing. I complain for fun” then has gotten pissed off at me saying “there is no solution. So stop even trying to bring that subject up” and threatens that I will make it worse by continuing to provide suggestions.

and, I told him that I would just force his hand and hire one anyway- which led into yet another big fight because he said I would make it worse for him because he’s “not going to be able to sleep any way with a stranger in the house” and that I must not “care about our child’s safety since I’m willing to put their life in the hands of complete strangers who ‘don’t care’ about our child and are just ‘there for the paycheck’”

It’s not even about the action of complaining. Example: ugh it’s so freaking hot. I hate the summer. Or, ahhh I stubbed my toes and they won’t stop throbbing, owww. Or, a bad day at work, etc. but, it’s what he’s complaining about that’s the issue because HE REFUSES HELP so he can get more sleep!

i need insight. Is this normal? Am I the abnormally minded one? Do people just let their spouses complain over and over and over… and over again about the same stuff with ‘no solution’ in sight? Am I being insensitive to his complaints?

this is also partially a factor: I was raised that if I’m complaining- do something about it. Not fully a nut up shut up deal. But, complaining in my household was a negative thing and it was a do something about it as complaining gets us nowhere. He was raised where they apparently complained all day all night to each other for fun.

i will add: he’s asked me to spend time with him at night because in the beginning- I was going to sleep around 10-11pm but he wanted me to stay up longer so we could get some time together between his meetings during his shift, so yes- I have chosen to lose out on sleep so we don’t drift apart. I am aware there’s a difference between choosing to lose sleep over his situation he doesn’t have a choice. And I never complain about my lack of sleep. I just get on about my day and hopefully feel rested each morning, which 99.99% I do.

TIA! I

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 19/07/2024 22:47

Yeah, I'd be stopping the validation and sympathy.

I'd drop it down to just ignoring rather than going nuclear to start with but eventually I'd be telling him that it's his choice and if I hearing him moaning about the consequences of his own choices again I'd be leaving the room.

cupcaske123 · 19/07/2024 22:55

Lack of sleep really messes with your head. He sounds paranoid to the point of delusion. The problem here is do you get enough of a break since he won't allow anyone, not even his own mother, to help?

The only solution I can see is changing job. Getting a regular 9-5 job so he can sort out his sleep. I'd also be concerned about where this is heading as he sounds very wound up.

The way he won't discuss anything and just has a tantrum until he gets his own way, is not acceptable behaviour. That's not how adults who care about each other communicate.

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:06

cupcaske123 · 19/07/2024 22:55

Lack of sleep really messes with your head. He sounds paranoid to the point of delusion. The problem here is do you get enough of a break since he won't allow anyone, not even his own mother, to help?

The only solution I can see is changing job. Getting a regular 9-5 job so he can sort out his sleep. I'd also be concerned about where this is heading as he sounds very wound up.

The way he won't discuss anything and just has a tantrum until he gets his own way, is not acceptable behaviour. That's not how adults who care about each other communicate.

I work 7-3PM. I’ve already adjusted my work schedule and this was the schedule he said would work. :/

OP posts:
Losingthebaggage321 · 19/07/2024 23:29

Hi Op. There's no doubt the shift system you both operate is hard on relationships. And you are in the throes of parenting. It's tough juggling it all.

Your DH comes across as very rigid and controlling though.

Did something happen in his childhood to make him so hyper independent and averse to trusting paid childcare? It sounds as though you have bent backwards to accommodate alternative arrangements and he is making this a whole lot harder than it needs to be. Why is that? Why are you not operating as a team? Maybe his relationship with his mother is at fault here if he was "parentified" at a young age?

Perhaps you could tackle this by coming at it from your DC's pov? Could you say to your DH that your child doesn't need a dad who is moaning and stressed and tired. Tell him it will set a bad example and impact on him or her negatively and frankly he's not much fun to be with. Also, childcare is full on and a very responsible job. Mistakes can be easily made if the person in charge is sleep deprived.

Maybe you could agree to reassess your working patterns in six months time and try and work on a solution in the meantime?

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:34

I’ve absolutely attempted every avenue of suggestions, even using tools and recommendations from my own therapist- he’s shot down EVERY SINGLE one. He’s even told me that my therapist isn’t the one caring for our child so “what the heck do they care if something happens to them”

His response to implementing any help is that he “operates just fine and watches child just fine”- he just wants to be able to complain and essentially gets offended that I don’t want to hear the same bit over and over and over again. And ultimately turns me into a bad guy.

OP posts:
aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:39

Losingthebaggage321 · 19/07/2024 23:29

Hi Op. There's no doubt the shift system you both operate is hard on relationships. And you are in the throes of parenting. It's tough juggling it all.

Your DH comes across as very rigid and controlling though.

Did something happen in his childhood to make him so hyper independent and averse to trusting paid childcare? It sounds as though you have bent backwards to accommodate alternative arrangements and he is making this a whole lot harder than it needs to be. Why is that? Why are you not operating as a team? Maybe his relationship with his mother is at fault here if he was "parentified" at a young age?

Perhaps you could tackle this by coming at it from your DC's pov? Could you say to your DH that your child doesn't need a dad who is moaning and stressed and tired. Tell him it will set a bad example and impact on him or her negatively and frankly he's not much fun to be with. Also, childcare is full on and a very responsible job. Mistakes can be easily made if the person in charge is sleep deprived.

Maybe you could agree to reassess your working patterns in six months time and try and work on a solution in the meantime?

Edited

He is very rigid, at least when it comes to any form of childcare. And, no. Nothing happened in his childhood- at least to explain his fear of it. His fear of it has stemmed from babies and children that have died in the hands of daycare/baby sitters.

OP posts:
Losingthebaggage321 · 19/07/2024 23:40

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:34

I’ve absolutely attempted every avenue of suggestions, even using tools and recommendations from my own therapist- he’s shot down EVERY SINGLE one. He’s even told me that my therapist isn’t the one caring for our child so “what the heck do they care if something happens to them”

His response to implementing any help is that he “operates just fine and watches child just fine”- he just wants to be able to complain and essentially gets offended that I don’t want to hear the same bit over and over and over again. And ultimately turns me into a bad guy.

That sounds almost impossible to live with op.

It sounds like your DH needs the therapist.

If he doesn't trust his mother, who does he trust? Maybe he had good reason to complain as a child and it wasn't a joke at all?

Did he show any signs of this behaviour before you had your DC at all? It sounds so extreme! Do you think he might be having a breakdown or becoming mentally ill?

Edited to say: have just read your update about nothing happening in his childhood to cause this.

Not pleasant reading but maybe you could look up some research about childhood accidents related to caregivers being tired?

JamSandle · 19/07/2024 23:43

His job sounds rotten. It will take a toll. Can he do something in normal hours?

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:46

JamSandle · 19/07/2024 23:43

His job sounds rotten. It will take a toll. Can he do something in normal hours?

he says working normal day time hours wouldn’t work for our child even tho he works from home. He says the only shift possible for him to be able to watch our child is by being overnight. When I bring up his lack of sleep affecting both of them- he then uses the “I get paid more being overnight and I’m not willing to take a hit in pay”

yes. This is my life 💀

OP posts:
aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:48

Losingthebaggage321 · 19/07/2024 23:40

That sounds almost impossible to live with op.

It sounds like your DH needs the therapist.

If he doesn't trust his mother, who does he trust? Maybe he had good reason to complain as a child and it wasn't a joke at all?

Did he show any signs of this behaviour before you had your DC at all? It sounds so extreme! Do you think he might be having a breakdown or becoming mentally ill?

Edited to say: have just read your update about nothing happening in his childhood to cause this.

Not pleasant reading but maybe you could look up some research about childhood accidents related to caregivers being tired?

Edited

Before he was born, no. Not at all. He said we’d discuss childcare options more while he was on his parental leave and it wasn’t until then that I realized how much he was against the daycare/baby sitter idea. It’s been pretty much the main argument in our household. Sometimes we have luls and it’s great, but there’s a clear impact (obviously) from the lack of sleep. and, he won’t budge so I’m stuck with… what- just suck it up and listen to him complain?

OP posts:
Southern68 · 19/07/2024 23:49

He seems to be ignoring the fact that his exhaustion could lead to accidents etc.

He needs to pull his big boy pants up, he knows he's behaving unreasonably hence the temper tantrums to get his own way.
For a start he needs to stop expecting you to be sleep deprived, and accept some help, and with respect you need to put your foot down and make it plain his manipulative behaviour wont work anymore, this will negatively impact your child if he doesn't stop being so ridiculous, what's he going to do when your child stops having naps.
This would all be a deal breaker for me.

I hope you find a solution

PerfectTravelTote · 19/07/2024 23:53

He sounds mentally unwell.

TealSapphire · 19/07/2024 23:55

Does your child get any socialisation with other kids?

They'll be going to preschool/school soon and he'll have to trust other people with your DS then.

Inspireme2 · 19/07/2024 23:56

Can he change jobs to more ideal sleep & living patterns?
Sorry, but not everyone parents are the same nor values. That's why we are all different.
How will he cope when your child starts school?

How will your child learn.
It seems like some sort of abnormal control and fear
You can not be isolated, and your child needs experiences outside of parents.
Get a babysitter or something and stop arguing with someone who seems to have some issues on normal life.
Sounds cult like!

cupcaske123 · 19/07/2024 23:57

aubs427 · 19/07/2024 23:48

Before he was born, no. Not at all. He said we’d discuss childcare options more while he was on his parental leave and it wasn’t until then that I realized how much he was against the daycare/baby sitter idea. It’s been pretty much the main argument in our household. Sometimes we have luls and it’s great, but there’s a clear impact (obviously) from the lack of sleep. and, he won’t budge so I’m stuck with… what- just suck it up and listen to him complain?

You don't have to suck anything up. Can you speak to him and explain how his behaviour is making you feel. That it's disrespectful to not listen to your ideas and to just shout you into submission. That your opinion counts and is valid.

If he's not going to listen to you and won't tolerate an alternative opinion, I can't see how your relationship will survive. I also agree with a pp that he doesn't sound well.

Setorrunny · 19/07/2024 23:58

This is not about child care. It’s about mental health and even if you didn’t have a child there would be something else for him to obsess over.

all your decisions need to be in that frame.

aubs427 · 20/07/2024 00:01

Oh gosh I literally have tried to bring up the “what are you going to do when he stops needing naps!” And he only respond with “ughhh my sleep. I’m already exhausted with his one nap and well that’s not right now” and tries to tell me that he watches him just fine and that he hopes preschool will change everything.

but my therapist responded to me just now and brought up a fact to me I didn’t realize… preschool is similar to daycare. Requires out of pocket cost. So if he’s not willing to do daycare, what makes me think he will actually be willing to put him in preschool… I really do not know…

OP posts:
the2andahalfmillion · 20/07/2024 00:02

God. This is not about his job.

He’s a paranoid, uncompromising, dismissive, blaming, selfish, fun sponge of the highest order.

the2andahalfmillion · 20/07/2024 00:04

And have you realized how hard you’re working to make all this better? Is he working as hard cos he wants everything to be ok and everyone to be happy. Let me guess.

I’d consider seeking our a new therapist that is not a male apologist or enabler.

aubs427 · 20/07/2024 00:05

I’ve definitely approached with this method. asked him if he’d be willing to do it for even my sanity sake- and he just goes into the “you don’t care then about our child since you’re so willing to trust his entire life with a strangers hands” and it becomes a I’m the bad guy and I’m the one who’s in the wrong because to him there is no other option. and it’s a perpetual cycle of WHAT CAN WE FIGURE OUT TO HELP YOU GET SLEEP. He then says “I function fine! I just want to complain!” Repeat cycle 😩😩😩

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 20/07/2024 00:07

aubs427 · 20/07/2024 00:01

Oh gosh I literally have tried to bring up the “what are you going to do when he stops needing naps!” And he only respond with “ughhh my sleep. I’m already exhausted with his one nap and well that’s not right now” and tries to tell me that he watches him just fine and that he hopes preschool will change everything.

but my therapist responded to me just now and brought up a fact to me I didn’t realize… preschool is similar to daycare. Requires out of pocket cost. So if he’s not willing to do daycare, what makes me think he will actually be willing to put him in preschool… I really do not know…

But you get a say too, this is also your child. It sounds as though your husband doesn't want to let your child out of his sight because of fear and paranoia. I would say that lack of sleep is exacerbating his condition.

You are being very passive and need to step up.

Setorrunny · 20/07/2024 00:09

You can’t control his behaviour.

You can only control your response.

He is crackers tin foil mad, and needs help. So, now what? You leave your child in the care of someone like this?

Losingthebaggage321 · 20/07/2024 02:02

Saying that it is your dc welfare at stake, I think you need to say to your dh that you are concerned that he is losing objectivity and perspective and you are bringing in a third person to mediate this issue,

Don’t ask his permission just sort it. A doctor, a mediator professional, a mediator of some sort to break the deadlock. Would your dh agree to a few joint sessions?

It’s a very good point made by pp that you are doing a lot of the work here op and you are the one having to constantly compromise, not to mention staying up late. The balance of power is out of whack. You need to somehow fight for more equality or else the problem could escalate.

GrumpyPanda · 20/07/2024 02:38

He's not just harming himself he's also harming your child by depriving him of age-appropriate socialization with other kids. Time to put your foot down OP.

suburberphobe · 20/07/2024 02:44

“you don’t care then about our child since you’re so willing to trust his entire life with a strangers hands”

He sounds paranoid.

What will he do when your child has to go to school?