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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Am I stupid for being upset/unsettled by this?

29 replies

AlwaysTheGirlfriend · 12/04/2008 16:51

DP and I have been together for just over 3 years now. We love each other to pieces and although we have had our share of problems, we have a really good relationship. From the beginning, he's always said he's against marriage - it's not in his religion (athiest ) - and so therefore he thinks he would be lying when he stood in church and swore before god that he would honour his vows etc. I laughed it off and thought "fine, it's early days, it's not an issue right now". But over 3 years later, he's still sticking by what he said. Even though he managed to give his sister away a year ago at her wedding.. hmm.

We've just got back from a weeks getaway with his family, and when I went into town with his sister, we saw a wedding dress shop and she mentioned it (jokingly) to DP when we got back that she didn't want to be a bridesmaid at 40 so he better hurry up and make an honest woman of me. Then his mum started, and we were laughing so he knew it was said in jest. But he got quite defensive and stroppy - we dropped it.

So, am I being stupid for feeling rather unsettled that this man - who right now, I could easily spend the rest of my days with - is quite happy to sit back and assume that I want to be someones girlfriend, and call someone my boyfriend, when i'm 45? I don't just want a wedding, I want the security that comes with being married in the future, especially for our children.

I sort of feel like this is it, this is the best it's going to get. We have nothing to work towards together as a couple. We're just supposed to plod along being boyfriend and girlfriend for god knows how long.

I don't know if I want advice, it was more of a rant but if anyone has any, it would be appreciated x

OP posts:

sleepycat · 12/04/2008 16:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tissy · 12/04/2008 16:53

it's not compulsory to get married in church.......

LoveMyGirls · 12/04/2008 17:00

My dp is the same, he's not religious and thinks a wedding is a waste of money and it means more to saty together because we want to be together everyday not because of a few words we said a few years ago. We've been together 6 years and he's only just starting saying he might do it to make me happy when we have the money but i'm not expecting that anytime soon!

I wish he wanted to marry me but i'm not doing it because we haven't got the money rigth now anyway and also doing it to make me happy is hardly the basis for a solid marriage is it? or is it? I guess at least he's willignt o do whatever it takes to make me happy which is kind of good.......confusing myself now lol!

Anyway basically the bit you said about being someones gf at 45 not appealing, they could have been my words!!!!!!!!

Original poster

AlwaysTheGirlfriend · 12/04/2008 17:02

I know it's not. But he seems to think that getting married in any other place but a church isn't 'proper'.. yet he doesn't believe in the 'proper' marriage, so then we're back to square one.

Part of me also thinks that it's not his religion that's the problem, it's the idea of having it in ink that he is legally comminted to someone that scares the crap out of him. Of course he denies that but why else would he be willing to take part on other peoples marriages etc, yet run for the hills when it comes to talk of his own..

OP posts:

Flibbertyjibbet · 12/04/2008 17:03

Oi I am 45 with a boyfriend who calls me his girlfriend.
We've been together 9 years and have two children. I was once engaged to exp, we were planning big church wedding etc then I realised that I didn't want to be married to him.
With dp I know I have more commitment from him and to him than I ever had with the bloke who wanted the whole wedding thing with me.
Its the quality of the relationship that counts for commitment, not whether you are married or not or whether that marriage took place in a church or not.
You have nothing to work together for as a couple? House, children, supporting each other through good times and bad.... I think you have a very niaive view of marriage if you think its the only way 'forward' for a couple.

Original poster

AlwaysTheGirlfriend · 12/04/2008 17:03

committed

OP posts:

BibiThree · 12/04/2008 17:06

I think he just doesn't want to get married full stop and is using his religion (or lack of) as an excuse.

If it's that important to you, you have to let him know. Really let him know. Is it a deal-breaker if you don't get married? Or would you stay with him forever anyway?

He needs to give you better reasons for saying no imo.

BibiThree · 12/04/2008 17:06

I think he just doesn't want to get married full stop and is using his religion (or lack of) as an excuse.

If it's that important to you, you have to let him know. Really let him know. Is it a deal-breaker if you don't get married? Or would you stay with him forever anyway?

He needs to give you better reasons for saying no imo.

Mumcentreplus · 12/04/2008 17:07

I agree with other posts...no need to get married in church...it's about commitment...if you wanna get hitched whats the big deal?..compromise and work together so you can both be happy...goodluck

Original poster

AlwaysTheGirlfriend · 12/04/2008 17:08

Flibberty - we have the house, working on the children, keep losing the buggars - and we continue to support each other through the good and bad, we've had more than our fair share in the short time we've had together and neither of us have wanted to jump ship yet.

I don't think it's the only way forward, but I think it's a nice thing to work towards. Like I said, I don't just want to be 'a wife', I want to at some point be married for the legality of certain things incase of anything happening to one of us when we have children etc.

OP posts:

Flibbertyjibbet · 12/04/2008 17:11

xposted with ops last post, but have to say I agree with bibi.
With my exp it was that deep down I quite wanted to be married, just not to HIM. Sorry.
DP and I might get round to it one day but it will be on a holiday to vegas or something like that and more as a final seal on an already sucessful and loving relationship than something to 'work towards' as if getting married is a target we've been set.
If he's getting defensive and stroppy at the women in his life hinting at him to get married then I would drop the subject if I were you or he really will be running for the hills.

dittany · 12/04/2008 17:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

AlwaysTheGirlfriend · 12/04/2008 17:21

But that's it, that is all it would be for me. The 'final seal'. I don't want a big fancy fairytale wedding, i'd be more than happy to run off abroad one day with him and do it that way. It's not so much a 'goal', I just never imagined myself being someones girlfriend for the rest of my days, I always imagined being married to the father of my children. And to be faced with the fact that I probably won't be - it's a hard pill to swallow for me.

I understand it's not an issue for some people, but for me, it sort of is. I love him to death and tbh if I have to, I would be his gf at 45 because it's not just about being able to say we are married. It's not a make or break thing for us - it's just something I always though would eventually happen when we got round to it in years to come.

OP posts:

bubblagirl · 12/04/2008 17:22

My dp doesn't want to get married either but he used to ask me all the time but now i see that marriage will not change anything we love each other we want to be together he told you all along he didn't want to get married and can't really expect him to change his mind he was honest in beginning if your happy then just be content together and see what future holds but you were aware of his feeling

NotABanana · 12/04/2008 17:33

You are happy together except for this one thing?

You want to marry him. He doesn't want to marry you.

Are you hoping to have children together? Would he feel differently then?

Would they have his name?

Would he take parental responsibility for them?

AFAIK If he left you, he would have to financially support the kids but not you. If he died, again I think the children would be provided for, not you.

He told you from the start he didn't want to get married, and I suspect deep down you hoped he would change his mind, even though you accepted it then. (I have done it once, we did get kind of engaged but I left him and married someone else much much better.)

Talk to him. Sounds like it will either be a deal breaker for one of you, or you will carry on as you are until you accept it or change your mind.

Good luck.

Flibbertyjibbet · 12/04/2008 17:36

Actually I think DP says 'girlfriend' which I don't mind as it makes me sound young, and I usually call him 'my partner' to anyone who doesn't know his name.
If I use his name to people who don't know us that well and they say 'oh is that your husband?' I say 'as good as' or something like that.
On the legal side we have made out wills and the house we live in is mine so I'd be no worse off if he died or ran off.
I really would drop the subject for now if he is getting stroppy when its mentioned.

Flibbertyjibbet · 12/04/2008 17:36

DivaSkyChick · 12/04/2008 17:54

Sorry to intrude but if you are unmarried and have children and then break up, are you entitled to the same degree of support as married couples?

I know the question lacks romance but so does being a single mom on benefits.

NotABanana · 12/04/2008 17:56

I thought a man didn't have to pay £ to his ex if they hadn't been married.

hecate · 12/04/2008 18:09

It really sounds like he just doesn't want to. Perhaps he's not looking for a lifelong commitment? If you're married you are in a better position legally. Perhaps that is a problem in his mind? Whatever his reason, he does not want a wife. Fair enough, that's not necessarily the same thing as a rejection of you as a person, I'm sure he loves you to bits, he just doesn't want to marry. You have to decide if you're ok with that.

Twiglett · 12/04/2008 18:12

ask him how he feels about the legal and tax implications ... it's not a religious matter only it's a civil one too

collision · 12/04/2008 18:14

Wasnt it YorkieGirl who posted and told us all the legal implications and hassles if you werent married and one of you died!!?

Am not being morose but maybe you could tell him about the problems of not being married and the death duty taxes you need to pay etc etc (am not sure of the details)

What is his problem with a civil ceremony then?

It could be simple and cheap and romantic....jeans and trainers at a register office and a party at the pub!!!

MadameCh0let · 12/04/2008 18:33

I went ahead and had children with a man like this. There were other problems too though. In the end I left him. It's all a long story. Some parts are relevant to you.

As I'm fond of saying on this board, I get £1 a month from him. There is less legal protection when you're not married, although I had heard that they were going to change that... They've been saying that for years.

I felt quite independent and less bothered about not being married before I had children, but when I had had them, I did feel less secure and I felt the odd one out. I seemed to be the only unmarried mother. I know they say it's nearly 40% but I didn't know any, so I felt a freak. People would ask the most awful questions too. I never used to discuss his level of commitment, but occassionally a mere acquaintance would ask something like "so does xxxx not want to marry you then?". It was mortifying and hard to put a good spin on things.

It was ONE of the things that led us to split up. In hard times, I didn't feel I owed him the loyalty of staying.

If you do accept the situation, and go ahead and have children as an unmarried woman then make sure you don't give up your job.

If he pressures you to give up your work, then just don't do it. That is a luxury only married women with the legal protection of divorce can afford. A married woman who has given up her job to look after couple's children and do the housework and cooking etc is entitled to a portion of her ex husband's pension.

An unmarried woman who has done just the same isn't entitled to the same.

Sorry if this all sounds really bleak and unromantic. If I could do it all again, I wouldn't take the huge personal risk of 'merging lives' with somebody who wasn't prepared to marry me. JMO. It is old-fashioned. But I learned the hard way.

PuhPeng · 12/04/2008 19:18

Dp and I aren't married. We've been together for 10 years, have a daughter and expecting #2. Very happily and utterly committed to each other, just don't want to get married.

However, we have had some quite definite and complicated wills drawn up that cover both of us in the event of either or both our deaths. We have ensured that I am the beneficiory of dp's pensions and insurance and accident, illness or death at work cover. We have given him parental responsibility for dd and any subsequant children in the relationship (not automatic - without this, in the event of my death my family could argue their rights to have dd over his). It goes on. It's complicated, it's not romantic and it would have been simpler to get married.

NiftyNanny · 12/04/2008 20:14

I totally sympathise, I always imagined I would be married to the father of my children.

I don't understand all the legal implications, but I know there are many benefits if you're widowed, unless you've made wills. I'm sure should DP and I have children, we'd have wills - but he's a fair bit older than me, and my Dad died at 43, so I have it in my head that I could be widowed before we even get the chance to have kids (he's 7 years away from that age now).

So I have this big fear that our time together is limited and I would hate to have never been married to him.

I don't know what it is, I just want to be a wife - for it to be the official, no questions asked socially accepted relationship, as Madame Cholet mentioned. I want to be seen by everyone as The Lovely Mr & Mrs H. I know others opinions shouldn't matter, and we've been ticking along nicely for a few years but in his background nearly every couple is married (the last of his uni friends are now pairing off and getting married). I guess it is social convention, and the fact I love him so much.

And yes, I do feel a bit daft being a "girlfriend", thankfully Mother-In-Common-Law refers to me as his "partner" aaaaaah!

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