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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being shallow?

58 replies

laura6767 · 16/07/2024 21:08

I’ve been on 4 dates with someone over the past 2-3 weeks, he’s 30, I’m 31.
He is a great guy, we’ve had some fun dates. The last one we spent all day together and we did run out of things to talk about by the end of the night but we were both tired. It’s annoying because he is one of the only guys I have met from the apps who hasn’t shown any red flags by now, so I really want to give things a go.
The problem is the more time I’m spending with him, the less keen I am on him in a romantic sense. I think he has been angling to come back to mine the last two dates and I’m just not feeling it. I like to get to know someone a bit more before spending the night as I just don’t feel comfortable otherwise.
He has told me a couple of times he thinks I’m out of his league. The big reservation I have is around a potential future. I would like to get married and have a family in the next few years and I am dating with this in mind. He told me how much he earns and it’s less than half of what I do. We live in London so nothings cheap. He told me he had no ambitions to earn more as he doesn't need more money and he didn’t think a stressful job is worth the money. That’s fair enough but he also complains about his ‘horrible house share’ with a tiny room because it’s cheap.
I find driven guys with their own things going on, really attractive. For context I am not trying to date some really rich guy. I just want someone on my level. I’m a professional, somewhat career focussed but also enjoy a work life balance and a home owner. I would describe myself as a go getter. I have lots of hobbies and friends. He dosnt seem to have any outside of work friends. He has moved from Australia a couple of years ago so that explains the lack of local friends a bit. I find he wants to see me all the time and I’ve usually got other things on but have made time to see him where possible. I’ve always been independent and find that quite attractive in another person too.
He does seem to like me a lot and he is a really nice guy, we have lots of fun together, but I’m worried I’d be settling for him. AIBU for considering ending things for these reasons? Am I putting too much pressure on things by thinking whether this could work long term/for marriage?
Dating is soooo difficult at the moment and I’m feeling like I’ll never meet the right guy. And decency/kindness are the most important things to me. Maybe I won’t find this again?

OP posts:
SamW98 · 17/07/2024 16:26

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 16:18

That's your choice. I personally think it's a poor choice though because relationships can never be fully equal. I prefer my husband to be thankful each and every day that I choose to be with him and appreciate the sacrifices I've made to have and raise his children.

Respectfully disagree - good relationships are based on equality imo

But hey maybe it’s best to stop derailing the thread and go back to the OP

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 16:49

Janieforever · 17/07/2024 16:23

Something quite grim about this. Relationships are equal.

Not grim, just uncomfortable. Especially if someone is a service provider wife. I'm personally of the opinion that relationships with men are a net-negative for women unless the man not on only pulls his own weight but also off-sets the stress and pressure they bring into our lives

WallaceinAnderland · 17/07/2024 17:18

My DH enhances my life and I his. I think that's the aim in any relationship. Equality is natural for us, we've never had to discuss it. If you have to strive for it or measure it then perhaps it's not right for you.

MiriamMay · 17/07/2024 17:23

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 16:49

Not grim, just uncomfortable. Especially if someone is a service provider wife. I'm personally of the opinion that relationships with men are a net-negative for women unless the man not on only pulls his own weight but also off-sets the stress and pressure they bring into our lives

WTF is a ‘service provider wife’?

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 18:00

WallaceinAnderland · 17/07/2024 17:18

My DH enhances my life and I his. I think that's the aim in any relationship. Equality is natural for us, we've never had to discuss it. If you have to strive for it or measure it then perhaps it's not right for you.

I said it before and I'll say it again -- men are a net-negative.

In other words, if you as a straight woman marry a straight man your life is already worse according to every messure. Science says you end up doing more housework, your health gets worse, you make less money, your less happy, and more burdened. That is in the ordinary course of a relationship with a man. So unless a man is actively doing measurable things to make your life better, you should not be with him.

Finances are the bare minimum. Him being a 'good guy' is the bare minimum. It's not even equitable if he's paying for everything, because that is just him offsetting the burden he is brining into your life.

Marriage is shortening your lifespan as a woman and making your life harder than it would otherwise be. Because marriage is not equal. We know that married men live longer, are happier, make more money, have better health outcomes.

Because it's not a question-- women add exponentially to men's lives, but men take from women.

So if the system is not automatically making sure women are getting something out of it, you need to make sure that your getting something out of it, because otherwise all your doing is giving. You've taken on another job. Except it's not paying. You are volunteering to make someone else's life easier.

No, my husband needs to be adding to my life in measurable ways. And, no, that doesn't include love and affection. He needs to be giving me so much more than I am giving to him. That's the only way for a marriage to be truly equal.

For example, I outsource all my labour. The women who get mad are the ones who look like a maid because they get treated like a maid. I refuse to give up opportunities for my husband and let him ring me out. The point of cutting out all unnecessary labour is you get to see for yourself if a man truly cares about you or if he only cares about the free labour and physical intimacy, all of a sudden it's going to be a huge thing when you're not giving like the giving tree.

Opentooffers · 17/07/2024 18:08

No, you are not being shallow, your reasons are good and valid. Next!
Hanging in longer is just wasting time and delaying finding the right one.

protectoroftherealm · 17/07/2024 18:33

@Meowzabub There is a lot of bullshit written on Mumsnet regarding many many differing subjects, but never have I read something quite as funny as that! It's absolute bullshit. The Harry Potter books contain more factual information in them than the spiel you've just concocted. I applaud you wholeheartedly for your efforts in filling my evening with hilarity!

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 18:36

@protectoroftherealm Whatever.

My husband understands that I am the prize and that women have to sacrifice a lot in marriage to men so strives to make up for it. I'm sorry if yours doesn't.

Maverick66 · 17/07/2024 18:58

Sorry, it would be a no from me.
Trust me .

FictionalCharacter · 17/07/2024 19:09

You're overthinking. You're not attracted enough to him to go into a long term relationship with him but you're trying to make a decision based on logic, pros and cons. Don't waste any more time thinking - you're not excited, you don't count the hours until you see him again, you just see him as a nice person.
End it now and carry on looking for someone compatible.

protectoroftherealm · 17/07/2024 19:20

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 18:36

@protectoroftherealm Whatever.

My husband understands that I am the prize and that women have to sacrifice a lot in marriage to men so strives to make up for it. I'm sorry if yours doesn't.

My husband is the most fabulous man I have ever met. We love & respect each other beyond measure and have done for 22 years, supporting each other through the hardest of times. He enhances my life as much as I enhance his. It's not transactional. I'm sorry you don't love or respect yours, perhaps you will begin to, when you eventually get a grip xx

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 19:34

protectoroftherealm · 17/07/2024 19:20

My husband is the most fabulous man I have ever met. We love & respect each other beyond measure and have done for 22 years, supporting each other through the hardest of times. He enhances my life as much as I enhance his. It's not transactional. I'm sorry you don't love or respect yours, perhaps you will begin to, when you eventually get a grip xx

Again, if you say so.

Though I don't see how wonderful he can be if he doesn't appreciate the systematic differences between men and women and compensate for it. That just makes for an inequitable marriage.

BarraNayk · 17/07/2024 19:40

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

BarraNayk · 17/07/2024 19:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

cloudy477654 · 17/07/2024 19:51

He's not for you, that's fine just move on

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 19:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

It's the truth. And if more men understood that there would be a lot less threads on the relationship forum.

Swisscave · 17/07/2024 20:07

Food for thought:

You're attracted to independent, sociable, ambitious, high earning (doesn’t have to be rich) men.

Naturally follow that through, to engagement, marriage, kids. Now I’m not saying these men don’t settle down etc but I’m saying that many women find being married to men that work all hours etc, put work first- incredibly difficult to be married to and raise children with. If you enjoy your independence, then you’re looking for someone that would share the load. You ain’t gonna find that with Mr High Achiever.

Maybe this guy isn’t for you but your idea of an ideal man- really isn’t the sort of guy that would allow you to have time to keep independence, share responsibilities etc

Lennon80 · 17/07/2024 20:17

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 18:00

I said it before and I'll say it again -- men are a net-negative.

In other words, if you as a straight woman marry a straight man your life is already worse according to every messure. Science says you end up doing more housework, your health gets worse, you make less money, your less happy, and more burdened. That is in the ordinary course of a relationship with a man. So unless a man is actively doing measurable things to make your life better, you should not be with him.

Finances are the bare minimum. Him being a 'good guy' is the bare minimum. It's not even equitable if he's paying for everything, because that is just him offsetting the burden he is brining into your life.

Marriage is shortening your lifespan as a woman and making your life harder than it would otherwise be. Because marriage is not equal. We know that married men live longer, are happier, make more money, have better health outcomes.

Because it's not a question-- women add exponentially to men's lives, but men take from women.

So if the system is not automatically making sure women are getting something out of it, you need to make sure that your getting something out of it, because otherwise all your doing is giving. You've taken on another job. Except it's not paying. You are volunteering to make someone else's life easier.

No, my husband needs to be adding to my life in measurable ways. And, no, that doesn't include love and affection. He needs to be giving me so much more than I am giving to him. That's the only way for a marriage to be truly equal.

For example, I outsource all my labour. The women who get mad are the ones who look like a maid because they get treated like a maid. I refuse to give up opportunities for my husband and let him ring me out. The point of cutting out all unnecessary labour is you get to see for yourself if a man truly cares about you or if he only cares about the free labour and physical intimacy, all of a sudden it's going to be a huge thing when you're not giving like the giving tree.

If only more women realised this! Absolutely spot on!

Ilovelurchers · 17/07/2024 20:44

Like others have said, leave this bloke to find someone who loves the bones of him and massively desires him. And keep seeking someone you feel like that about. Neither of you are in the wrong but you BOTH deserve better than this relationship.

When I first met my current partner, God I could barely breathe with desire - between dates it was all I could think about, felt like I was going mad.

Years down the line, there is still enough of that passion to get us through the hard times and keep us warm at nights!

Good luck. True love is out there. You'll know it when it bites you!

BowlOfNoodles · 17/07/2024 20:47

He'll end up costing you money he'll be unable to do even a 50/50 with you. You don't fancy him bin it off.

WallaceinAnderland · 17/07/2024 22:27

I'm sorry @Meowzabub you're wrong.

That might be your experience but it's not mine.

I do not do more housework, my health has not got worse, I am richer than I have ever been, I am now and always have been perfectly happy with him. We have always shared the burdens of earning, spending, housework and childcare.

He is not bringing any burdens into my life. He enhances my life. This seems to be a concept you are not familiar with. He makes me happy, he is a wonderful, fully rounded, capable, enriching man.

Marriage is not shortening my lifespan or making my life harder. My life is easy, always has been because we've been together for yonks and we understand each other. We support each other, talk about everything, we are fulfilled. We have a laugh every day, we are content, we are comfortable and we still have a spark.

We share the labour of creating and maintaining a home together. It's not about outsourcing for someone to mop the floor. We don't have separate roles, we just see what needs doing and do it.

Without a fuss, without blame, without criticism or measuring who did what or who earned what. What a sterile life you live, balancing some imaginary book.

We're a team, always have been, always will be.

Slayday · 17/07/2024 22:34

Can relate. Started dating a right rough diamond tradesman and I bloody can’t get enough of him. I do wonder how my family will receive him when (if) they meet him as he looks a bit scary but I think he’s fab. We have chemistry and he’s lovely and caring but he’s not anything like my mates’ husbands or partners. I don’t think the socio economic thing would get in the way if you were meant to be. I just think he might be a bit wet for you.

Ratisshortforratthew · 17/07/2024 22:40

Meowzabub · 17/07/2024 16:49

Not grim, just uncomfortable. Especially if someone is a service provider wife. I'm personally of the opinion that relationships with men are a net-negative for women unless the man not on only pulls his own weight but also off-sets the stress and pressure they bring into our lives

Many, many men are not a positive addition to a woman’s life but I’d rather stay single than be in an unequal relationship where I had to make sacrifices and my only consolation was being a “prize” (shudder). I’m an equal person. My partner happens to be male - I’m bi so could’ve ended up with a woman - and he absolutely does enhance my life and make it easier, as well as bringing joy, love and laughter. The only reason I’d enter into and stay in a relationship is that it’s better than remaining single (which I was very happy with. Anyone bringing stress and pressure can get in the bin.

OP it doesn’t sound like you and this man are on the same trajectory or that there’s even a spark. If there was a connection his circumstances wouldn’t seem such a stumbling block.

Dayoldbag · 17/07/2024 23:24

Not shallow at all.
You don't find him attractive and he doesn't share your ambitions to provide for yourself.
Don't waste your time and don't settle.

Slayday · 18/07/2024 08:23

You are also very young to think this is last chance saloon!