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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I can't trust him, can I?

50 replies

Wazzzzzuuuuuuup · 01/07/2024 20:52

TLDR: I can't trust my husband who is maybe possibly having an emotional/physical affair with a woman 15 years his junior. Or he wants to. Or she wants to. Or maybe they're just good ol' platonic gym buddies

Last night my dh of 20 years had a phone call at around 9.30. We'd been sitting together watching the football. He picked up, and headed straight out of the patio doors into the garden. He had to unlock them, it's not like the door was open. Odd. I lingered by the door and heard him talking in a low voice, saying Just Take a Deep Breath. Like he was talking someone down who was having a panic attack. He was obviously aiming to be out of my sight/hearing. I'm not one to shy away so I asked him straight off when her came in, who is your secret conversation with? He names a woman he knows, previously from work, more recently from the gym. She was alone in the park, having a meltdown apparently.

I know he knows this woman, she called him a few times during lock down when they still worked together crying or asking for advice around a work situation. She is 15 y younger, and like the grown up I am I advised he gently point her to other sources of support and that it was inappropriate to be relying on an (older, male, married) colleague for emotional support.

Around 18 M ago he mentioned she and her partner went to the same gym and once or twice he'd trained with them both. He was invited to their wedding last autumn which was tiny (like 6 people, in their house) which I thought was deeply weird at the time. They (she?) bought him his favourite chocolates for Christmas (at no point has he told me they are hanging out and they are bumping into each other at the gym occasionally. He then reciprocated (he said he felt bad, that they had bought him a gift, when later questioned) with an expensive bottle of whiskey. He didn't tell me this, I found the receipt in my car.

This year for his birthday, more chocolates and a card from the couple. And a card from this woman's mother, who he says he met once at the wedding. How weird, he said.
He is on his phone all the time, but has been for years tbh. I've never snooped into it, never thought I needed to. I didn't get into any further and just went to bed although I was mad last night, and lay awake seething and planning how we will split the assets when he leaves.

Now she's calling him at home and he says it's nothing. He says the husband called him earlier and thanked him for calming her down last night.

I told him I can't believe him. He has lied about having any relationship at all. It's platonic, apparently. No intent from either of them. He 'had been' (I. E. In the past) training with her. I asked when it stopped. It hasn't. He was meant to meet her today but chose not to go. They've been working out together at least twice a week. He tells me when he meets his male gym friend and what they've been training on. He never mentions this woman.

I was very rational, I told him once he has been proven to be a liar, how will I ever know if he's lying or not. Liars lie. That's what they do. I asked what is he going to do about it. He said he'll tell her not to call him at home in the evening. Oh lovely, I said. That'll make a difference. I asked if he'd block her and never contact her again, for the sake of our marriage and our family. There was a micro hesitation but he said he would.

I asked how he supposed I can trust him again, because even if it is entirely innocent, it doesn't look that way to me (or objectively to anyone). He said he will tell me where he's going, who he's seeing. I asked if I could see his phone. He handed it over. I asked if I could see his messages. He had two from yesterday. How do you contact each other to arrange the gym? Mostly WhatsApp. Show me. There were around 10 messages from May onwards. She's sent some pictures out walking, a few banter messages back and forth. Friendly, not sexy. Nothing arranging gym. So I ask him again, how does he keep in touch with this woman he sees once or twice a week at varying times on different days if not by message. He calls her, he says. Tell me anyone under 60years old who telephones as a preferred contact method? Especially when I don't hear him on the phone. I asked him to show me his phone records. One received call, one missed call in the entire log. Him calling her back. No more phone records. I asked him if he thought I came down in the last shower. A few innocent WhatsApp messages (mostly received when we were in holiday and he was using a different sim so couldnt receive texts) no texts, no calls. From an innocent friendship. He admits he's deleted his history, and doesn't know why.

He didn't tell me because he thought I wouldn't approve. He doesn't know why he lied. He is very sorry. I think he's only sorry he got caught.

So there it is, no evidence that he's cheating. No evidence of anything really. Apart from he's been lying to me, by intent, or by omission for up to 5 years.

OP posts:
Fmlgirl · 01/07/2024 21:02

With all of this, I wouldn’t need any proof that there’s something going on. He disrespects you to the extreme and that would be enough for me to leave.

BigPussyEnergy · 01/07/2024 21:06

The fact that he deleted their messages would be proof enough for me. Whether you split or try counselling/boundaries etc is of course a decision for you to make, but you know you can’t trust him.

Ukhotelsareshit · 01/07/2024 21:12

Well apparently he does believe you came down in the last shower! All messages and call logs deleted but he “doesn’t know why”? Did an alien make him do it? Twat.
Can you access his phone bill???
But, I can see where you’re at op. You’ve been together a long time, and if it’s “just” a flirtation, you don’t want to bin it all off, over what is ostensibly nothing. The trouble is, that it’s not “nothing” to you. At all.
My advice would be to sit him down, look him in the eye and tell him this is serious shit and he needs to be honest. My experience though, says he will lie through his teeth. They ALL bloody do. So, I would sling him out. Tell him that all the while he’s a lying toad, you didn’t want to be near him and you find him revolting. Do that then go from there……

Wazzzzzuuuuuuup · 01/07/2024 21:47

There are two parallel universes. One, where I'm entirely overreacting because my dh has a friend. The other where he's a cheating bastarding liar.

I feel so angry and only a small amount sad. He's sleeping downstairs tonight. He said he doesn't want to lose me. And he panicked and deleted the call logs. I actually believe this because he isn't exactly a strategic thinker, and I would say it is likely he would underestimate me, rather than think through the consequences of his actions.

He asked how he can fix it. I turned that one right around and told him it's not MY job to tell him how to sort his shit. I'm sick of looking after him. It's not my responsibility what he does or doesn't do or how he feels. He feels so bad, so terribly bad. I had to point out that yesterday he felt rather fine, with his secret friendship, and his plans to meet at the gym today. The only difference in how he feels is yesterday I didn't know and today I do. The actions he was taking were the same.

He'll block her, never contact her again. And so on.

We've been together since we were 20 and 21. Our dc are almost grown, youngest is 18. We've been really happy. Normal happy, not foolish. Just good, normal happy. He was an absolute hero when I suffered a traumatic bereavement. He brings me coffee in bed every morning, and a hot water bottle when I don't feel well. Once I had such terrible period pain I collapsed in my office after hours and he drive 50 miles to my work to pick me up. He supported the family so I could go to uni and get my degree. He reduced his hours to look after the kids when I took a job with a long commute. I'm now a higher earner and earn 5 times his salary. He has been a great dad. We've travelled all over the world. We're really close to both our extended families. We barely have a history that isn't 'ours'.

We are growing apart as we get older , blike two lines that look parallel but are just one degree out so over time we are diverging. I am obsessed with being the best I can be. I'm accelerating through my career, reading, writing, learning languages, my mind going at 100mph. He has mostly stayed the same.

OP posts:
Mischance · 01/07/2024 22:03

I am obsessed with being the best I can be. I'm accelerating through my career, reading, writing, learning languages, my mind going at 100mph. He has mostly stayed the same.

Does all this accelerating leave any time for your OH? Do you despise him for staying the same rather than dealing with life as you do?

Garlicnaan · 01/07/2024 22:07

Hmm sounds like you are as you say drifting apart.

How disappointed, really, are you at that prospect?

Opentooffers · 01/07/2024 22:37

Don't see how you have the time to spend with him given all you've been doing. Maybe that is how your DH has had this friendship for 5 years without you noticing. He's been doing with her the things that were missing with you. Doesn't make it right.
He might say he will block her, somehow that has come too willingly and easy after 5 years connection. I think he expects he will be able to conceal it better in future.
On the plus side, you have financial independence and grown up DC's, so if you were to separate, you will be fine in the future.

Wazzzzzuuuuuuup · 01/07/2024 22:44

Opentooffers · 01/07/2024 22:37

Don't see how you have the time to spend with him given all you've been doing. Maybe that is how your DH has had this friendship for 5 years without you noticing. He's been doing with her the things that were missing with you. Doesn't make it right.
He might say he will block her, somehow that has come too willingly and easy after 5 years connection. I think he expects he will be able to conceal it better in future.
On the plus side, you have financial independence and grown up DC's, so if you were to separate, you will be fine in the future.

I think 'actively concealing' does not equal 'not noticing'. As I say, I've seen the gifts and cards, and the receipt for the whisky. At each stage he has dismissed and minimised. He said he was going to the gym. I go to the gym to exercise and don't meet up with men. I asked if he wanted to come to my gym so we could work out together. He declined, he likes his cheap and cheerful gym.

OP posts:
Gabby82 · 01/07/2024 22:59

It sounds like he has a friendship with her and her husband and the gifts were for/from the couple. Could he not just have a friendship with this couple who have similar interests/appreciate his support? I know people that have deleted phone history because of jealous partners, to avoid problems, as opposed to actually having anything to hide so I wouldn't necessarily read into that.

Staringatthewalljustmeagain · 02/07/2024 06:52

I wouldn’t stand for this. Whether it’s ever turned physical or not. He’s clearly obsessed with her, actively being deceitful over it, and is a liar. I don’t believe her husband is involved particularly.

I’d end things for this. Especially if our lives are already diverging. It sounds like you’ll be just fine on your own, you’re doing well.

Wazzzzzuuuuuuup · 02/07/2024 08:06

Thanks for the views, it is balancing, and reflects the nuance that I think is there. I tried to be honest in the description of us and our lives and, I suppose, what we bring to the table. I have no doubt I would be fine on my own, but that's not what I wanted for my future. The truth is we are very different, and my life is fuller and busier which leaves him more time to do whatever he is doing. But he is the calm to my storm and the true grounding force in my life. I saw (see?) us growing old together.

This isn't as straightforward as LTB. There may be some truth in points by @Opentooffers and @Mischance that he is filling a vacuum I am leaving with his secret friend. But the choice to conceal that was still a choice. I've not had a history of stalking him, snooping in his phone, questioning him over every little thing, and I don't think that excuses his deleting of all contacts, if he wasn't scared of what I would find. I'm not the archetype of the jealous wife.

I agree the husband is a red herring. The cards have been signed from both of them and he obviously knows my dh well enough to invite him to their wedding. But she was single when my husband met her 5 years ago and the dynamic as far as I could see is that she was emotional and needy and he shouldn't get involved. She may have no intentions to him, and her dh is obviously completely aware of the friendship (what a privilege, to know what your partners is doing, and with who!).

But my dh is doing all of the deception. He has given me enough crumbs to let me know he has an acquaintance with this couple but it is her he has been meeting several times a week, not both of them, and he and she are texting and calling often enough to make it worthwhile deleting his call logs. He may well have panicked and deleted what was a log of infrequent, friendly texts and occasional 30 second calls to arrabge a training time. But not being able to confirm that makes it seem like it must be more.

OP posts:
Ahlovetoloveyoubaby · 02/07/2024 10:19

Is there any way to get what has been deleted?

user1492757084 · 02/07/2024 10:34

It's a public gym.
Start going every now and again.
Observe how DH is with the two. They could be just friends.

If you want a long term friendship with your DH you need to be on the same page together for a few more hours of the week.
Take a few adventures and nice long weekends together.

PrincessofWells · 02/07/2024 10:44

Get a PI to dig a bit deeper, let things settle for a few weeks, drop the questions, then have a PI look into things. It'll build you a better picture of what's going on.

TulipsAndForgetmenots · 02/07/2024 10:47

My worry would be that she and her husband are grooming him for a scam (or a loan), and she's the bait.

Either that, or she's just a weird drama queen.

Men can be surprisingly oblivious - you and I know it's bloody odd to be ringing an older, married male colleague in tears all the time, and that she's either manipulative or unbalanced. But to him, she's just a poor little girl needing a protector.

Candlesandmatches · 02/07/2024 10:54

Why don’t you go to Councelling or marriage coaching together?
Believe me when I say splitting up and the devastation that causes for you, DH and kids isn’t something you want.
Maybe it’s not your intention but your tone implies you feel superior/more driven than him. Maybe after years of working he’s looking forward to retirement being in sight and slowing down the pace a bit. That’s ok. You don’t have to do the same.
It’s super common for bumps to appear when empty nesting is happening. But work through them together.
The bottom line needs to be that he can’t be her friend. But together you need to start building a life that has space for both of you in it.

loriginale · 02/07/2024 10:57

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Disturbia81 · 02/07/2024 11:08

Would he be supporting a woman 15 years older? I doubt it

Wazzzzzuuuuuuup · 02/07/2024 11:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Given my description of our relationship above, I'm not sure how you have concluded our marriage is 'rotten to the core'. Maybe I should have also listed all of the loving, caring things I do for him. But the thread wasn't about me and what a great/mediocre/terrible wife I am.

"We've been really happy. Normal happy, not foolish. Just good, normal happy. He was an absolute hero when I suffered a traumatic bereavement. He brings me coffee in bed every morning, and a hot water bottle when I don't feel well. Once I had such terrible period pain I collapsed in my office after hours and he drive 50 miles to my work to pick me up. He supported the family so I could go to uni and get my degree. He reduced his hours to look after the kids when I took a job with a long commute. I'm now a higher earner and earn 5 times his salary. He has been a great dad. We've travelled all over the world. We're really close to both our extended families. We barely have a history that isn't 'ours'."

All this to say, I love my husband. And I don't want to be without him, but I can't stay with him if I can't trust him. Thanks to everyone who has contributed helpful responses. I don't know if or how I can get more evidence of what he has done, or the feelings he have that have driven this ongoing relationship with another woman. I'm honestly not sure what evidence would satisfy me now, as proving a negative is pretty hard to do. The crux is whether I can live with the uncertainty.

OP posts:
loriginale · 02/07/2024 11:12

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loriginale · 02/07/2024 11:14

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AutumnFroglets · 02/07/2024 11:29

I'm usually the person that says LTB on Relationship threads as they are mostly abusive relationships. Yours though... yours needs careful handling if it's to survive and I can see why you would want it to despite the lies and minimising.

I think you need relationship counselling, something like Relate, so you can both talk to each other properly. You need to explore and explain your anger and distrust around his dishonesty, he needs to explore and explain why this woman fulfills his needs to the point he's willing to sacrifice his marriage and family unit. You both need to be heard before you can find a way forward, whether that's together or separate.

confessionsfromadreamer · 02/07/2024 12:04

Deleting messages is 100% a sign of an affair. Why would you otherwise?

Bookworm20 · 02/07/2024 12:06

Are you sure this woman actually has a husband?
Its very odd hes deleted everything and even odder he got a card from her mother. I'm pretty sure my mother has never sent a card to a random bloke I meet at the gym every so often. (although I never meet up with random blokes at the gym, but even so).
Have you ever socialised with her and her husband?

Bookworm20 · 02/07/2024 12:09

The only reason I say about there actually being a husband is because my friends partner was caught having an affair. he had a 'friend' who was married and would receive cards/gifts from her and also from her and her husband, as they socialised together fairly regularly. Turned out the 'husband' was in fact her brother.
I don't mean to make you more anxious OP, but life has certainly taught me to over think on multiple occasions.

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