Depressed Husband Destroying Marriage

[Peppette]

So this is probably a bit of a long one but I'll try to get everything out so I don't drip feed.

My husband has become increasingly depressed since his mother passed away 2 years ago, he went on antidepressants in December and started seeing a therapist about a month ago. He has been depressed before and has said after the fact that when he is like that he tends to be very destructive with regards to his life and our relationship, and when he comes out the other side he apologises and we move on. This time he is worse than he has ever been and is saying he wants a divorce.

About 18 months ago we had a problem with a flat that we rent out (slow leak causing damage that needed to be fixed), he got about half way through sorting it and then apparently "begged" for me to take over. I didn't feel confident taking over the whole thing as I was completely lost on what had already been done and had never been involved in the flat being rented out. Plus it was December and anyone with kids knows that I was pretty overwhelmed with Christmas things that seem to take over that month, things he never helps with. However, I helped in any way I could, searching for an alternative accommodation for tenants, helping him make decisions on products etc, researching things like tiles etc.

His depression (or the tablets he takes for it) causes him to be forgetful and misremember things, he will also be making a point and then two minutes later push to opposite point (e.g. "we need to bring up things that are upsetting us then and there" will turn into "we need to not get so bothered by everything and wait to calm down" two minutes later and then deny he said the first thing). He will also hear things that I didn't say, for example when I brought up the memory thing as a genuine concern I asked "what's going on with you" and he heard "what's wrong with you" which is obviously different. I feel like when he speaks to his therapist he isn't necessarily telling her exactly what happened and just the way he misremembered it and the therapist said that I may be emotionally abusing him and he has clung onto this as fact. I am aware this sounds bad and I'm obviously very upset at this turn of events. I am also aware that making someone question their reality is a form of emotional abuse but surely that doesn't count if their version of reality is currently unstable?

So I asked him how had I possibly emotionally abused him and this lead to me booking an appointment with my own therapist (because if I am unknowingly emotionally abusive then they would know, he also has concerns that I have OCD but I don't so figured I would talk about this as well) and him giving me a list of all the ways I have emotionally abused him. The list was 4 pages long and listed things like "criticizing appearance - pointing out when I have food in my teeth" and "criticizing when I have not done a job to YOUR standards" and also things that were completely misremembered like never supporting him in his job because I got angry that he said he was doing a 90 minute job interview (a test without an interviewer) and didn't come down for 5 hours without keeping in contact about that and disregarding all the other times I have helped him work out his job options and helped him rank them so he can figure out which one to accept. And everything I do or say gets twisted to fit into this version he has of me that is abusive or obsessive compulsive or unsupportive.

So he said that doing this list highlighted to him how completely unsupportive I am and reminded him how angry he was about the leak in the flat thing. And he is so, so angry with me about it. Like being really nasty and downright cruel. He is also saying he wants a divorce because of this incident that has really "scarred him emotionally". We have an appointment with a couple therapist next week but I feel like he's not going into it with an open mind (or clear mind).
Outside of these depressive episodes our marriage is really good and they don't happen very often (approx 3 times in 12 years), we have two primary school aged kids as well and I can't bear the thought of our marriage blowing up because he is in self destruct mode and that he may come out the other side regretting it and having caused all this pain to me and the kids.

Quite frankly I guess I needed to rant for a bit and maybe hear from people who went through something similar and if it turned out ok. And maybe get some tips about marriage counselling and how to hold my own a little around the house as I am currently hiding out in our bedroom (he's sleeping downstairs) if the kids are in bed as he seems to get nasty when the kids aren't around thankfully. There's also loads more stuff that has happened but this post is already too long and this is the gist of the current problem I'm experiencing.

I lost my mother around 6 months ago

I'm sure my partner hasn't found me easy to deal with. Grieving, sorting things out, deadmin. I haven't been a total cunt to him.

Depression is no excuse

I’m so sorry for your loss, @HowIrresponsible 💐.

I was also a emotional mess six months after losing my Mum and personally, I think that’s a normal part of the grieving process. Most people are significantly better after two years though and that makes me wonder what’s really going on with the OP’s husband.

It could have been me writing that.

Me having a moment really does set him off and that’s what I find hardest. Lots of bottling up!

I think for your own sanity the first thing you need to do is step away from what is happening in your husband’s therapy sessions. Whatever he is saying, leave it between him and the therapist. A good therapist will be well aware that he is all over the place.
Go to your own therapy.
It’s possibly not a great time to have couples therapy either. If he has held on to a singular comment about emotional abuse, if he brings that up in a couples scenario, that is unhealthy and unhelpful.
Depression is a terrible, terrible illness but at this point I would be questioning as to whether you are being emotionally abused yourself. Being faced with a pages-long list of your wrongdoings? I would question whether this is due to depression at all. I’m not here to suggest a diagnosis, but this type of behaviour is very corrosive and over time could really impact your well being even further.
Right now, I think it’s time to put your own health first. Go to your own therapy. When you are able to start doing things that you enjoy, with people you like and who care about you. It doesn’t mean you ignore DH, but at the moment you seem to be a 24/7 emotional punchbag.
At some point, he needs to accept that he has a part to play in his own recovery. Therapy is there to help you in that.
Whatever you decide in the long run, for now concentrate on taking better care of yourself.

So sorry you are going through this. I agree with PP in that you cannot change him. You need to detach with love and focus on yourself and your children. We want to help those we love but he is the only one who can navigate this.

In terms of staying or going, a close friend's wife had an awful period of real tragedy, it was heart-breaking. She went into a depressive, self destructive cycle. Did terrible things, cheated etc and insisted on a divorce. Husband adored her and was adament this wasn't her and he'd said in sickness and health. He didn't contest the divorce she wanted but made it easy, stayed calm, loyal and focused solely on the children. I couldn't have done it.

After a few years of therapy and the right medication it was like she woke up. They reconciled. They both put in hard work and therapy and honest to god they are the most loving, happy couple.

Obviously this is very, very rare and ill be honest, i would not have done it, I'd have walked away. I'm not even sure I think it was the right thing as by all rights it shouldn't have worked. But I put this story out there as you are going to get lots of ltb which may be the right course of action but there are alternatives.

Those who are saying to emotionally detach and focus on me and the kids and build my support system. How do I do that? I don't have a whole bunch of friends and the ones I do have are mainly my kid's friend's parents and also friends with my husband. I am an introvert and find it hard to make, and keep, friends. The only family I have nearby is my Mum who is helpful and knows a lot of the recent situation but I also don't want her to worry about me, and it's not much of a support system at the moment.

Whether it us or isn't depression that is causing him to treat you like shit, the outcome is the same. Your energy is being taken up by him, you're walking on eggshells, he turns on a dime - this is abuse. It's hard but you need to give less of a shit about him and his moods - it's likely that whatever you do it won't be enough to placate him anyway, so stop bothering.

I was in a similar situation but without children and I got out. It was putting myself first for the first time in our relationship. I didn't want to waste the rest of my life living with this emotional storm cloud, causing me constant anxiety and dread, eggshells, spoiling all occasions, not able to look forward to anything, being blamed, the list goes on. You cannot fix him. A trial separation might help you to see what a calm, happy, peaceful life you could be living. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I don't mean to be.

What we’re saying is don’t try to placate and always behave the way that he wants you to, especially if he’s being unpleasant. Walk away from him if he’s blaming you for everything under the sun, for example. If he brings up the list he made of everything you’ve supposedly done, simply say that you disagree with him.

If he makes threats to divorce you, tell him that it’s his choice.

You don’t have to engage with his behavior. You’re not responsible for his choices. Focus on yourself and your children. 💐

Depression is not an excuse for being an emotionally abusive, rude, cruel etc.
I think you're best option is to calmly tell him that as you are the source of all his problems then it would be best if he left for his own well being.
I'd then get on with your own and DC lifes.
Smile and wave if he tries to engage you in arguing etc. grey rock him.
If he does leave, and then comes back you might have found you are happier with out him.

My DH has said that I am the one abusing him, when he’s trying to deflect from his own behaviour. It’s very head-fuckery. Also, he said hat his therapist said that both of us need to do work etc… (I must fix my so-called problem) so I do wonder what he was actually telling him. It’s hard to loive with someone like this. Mine talks divorce / leaving as well.

Call their bluff about leaving

@Peppette I started by making sure I had nice social interactions daily, even chatting with someone at the shop. Small things to create a different vibe than the stress at home.

I also started to say yes to all invites. This naturally led to some nice friendships in time. I made myself go even when not really feeling it, since friendships grow easier with shared experiences.

I also tried to re-find interests. What do I actually like? I had put H first for so long, this took a while. I’m midway between extroversion and introversion though. I think small steps but practiced regularly, trying to re-find nice, pleasurable or even joyful things for you is as good way to go.

Like someone with dementia his reality is his reality. You will never get him to see that he's being contradictory and confused, because to him he isn't. He's telling the absolute truth about what happens to him, as he sees it. It won't matter what you say or do, he cannot see beyond his own version of reality.

I think you need to give him that divorce. Let him realise that the world is a tough place, and even tougher when you are out there on your own without a convenient punch bag. You will find that you and the children thrive when you aren't having to second guess someone who warps things to bend them around themselves.

Thank-you everyone for your support, it really does mean more than you can know. I was in a terrible place yesterday and reading all of your kind words, experiences and advice has really lifted me. I have reached out to a few friends and put some feelers out for local community groups that I could join to meet some new people and will talk to me kids about days out that they will want to do over the summer.

I'm not 100% certain on what is going to happen between my husband and I but I am done being his emotional punch bag. Hopefully couples therapy in a few days will help but I'm not sure it will as he seems to have already made his mind up. Perhaps it would at least be useful to have a third party to help negotiate our terms of temporary (or not temporary) separation. I guess we will just have to see.

I wouldn’t go to counselling with him. He’s emotionally abusive and your time and money will be spent trying to convince the counsellor that he’s not telling the truth. Also you don’t have to negotiate a separation with him.

Spend your money on your own self and employ your own counsellor or solicitor. In the meantime stop listening to him. Your patience and understanding has been weaponised and the more you listen the more he will accuse and gaslight.

I'd be wary of going to couples counselling with him. He does sound controlling and emotionally abusive and these types tend to use counselling to gain vindication of their own behaviour. So you may go in with an open heart and mind, but your husband may go in calculating how he can best use the session to "win" some sort of victory over you, to keep you on the back foot in the relationship. My husband gaslit me during one of these sessions and the counsellor didn't say anything! Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book that's recommended quite often on here? It's quite an eye opener, don't let the title that mentions violence put you off, its all about controlling behaviour.

@Turtletunes I've not heard of this book, which one do you mean? I've googled it but there seems to be a few that he's written!

"why does he do that?" is the book OP.

Oh god not Lundy Bancroft again!

The lundy bancroft who hasn't been published by anything other than a vanity press?

The bancroft who is an anti vaxxer and conspiracy theorist.

The bancroft who was holding retreats in the US just for abused women to help them "heal" and his behaviour was far from good towards them?

That Bancroft?

It's weird why this man is only mentioned on mumsnet and women here see one man's book as the answer to everything.

Why do you need a book your husbands behaviour about why he does it..if you don't like it leave.

I don't see Lundy Bancroft's book as the answer to everything. It's one of many books I've read over the last few years about controlling behaviour and emotionally abusive men. What is in the Lundy Bancroft book aligns with other books I've read, but one of the benefits of his book is that it's available free as a pdf, after a little Google search. If the Lundy Bancroft book winds you up, how about "The Gaslight Effect: You're Not Crazy They're Gaslighting You" by Dr Theresa J Covert instead? I found that as eye opening as "Why does he do that?".

but one of the benefits of his book is that it's available free as a pdf, after a little Google search.

exactly. Bancroft hasn't been published by anything other than a vanity press and its available for free download.

It doesn't wind me up I don't understand how it keeps being mentioned on MN but nowhere else.

I don't want or need to read books about emotional abuse or gaslighting. I'd end a relationship like that. But I guess not everyone does.

No, not everyone does, because being in one of these relationships is like being in a cult, in which you are the only member being brainwashed into staying in it. After years of emotional abuse and gaslighting, being manipulated into believing I was crazy, I found that reading books that explained what my husband was doing and why he was doing it were literally life savers to me. The scales fell from my eyes after reading Dr Theresa J Covert's book and I finally realised I wasn't crazy and there could be a way out.

OP, it's more than possible for a person with depression to also be an abusive arsehole. This is definitely what you have on your hands here. He's projecting his own behaviour onto you and gaslighting you. It will wear you down and eventually it will break you. Grab the divorce he wants with both hands. He will only get worse.

This may be out of left field. I have had psychotic depression and alot of what you describe your husband is similar to how I was? My DH would say something and I’d hear something completely different- usually a much worse thing. I’d also see & hear things that were not there (hallucinate). To include entire conversations with him when he wasn’t even there.

My memory seemed “bad” only because I remembered things that were not real as if they were real and had happened.

I wasn’t deliberately misremembering or gaslighting- it was my reality that was messed up.

I needed antipsychotics and antidepressants in the end. I had never experienced psychosis ever before in my life.