Relationship with my mum

[Mini45]

I would really like your advice on how to navigate the relationship with my mum and if I am overreacting on her behaviour please?

She has always been controlling and in my view favoured my DB.
DB wife wasn't a nice person and in 2003 after lots of issues she gave my brother an ultimatum of her or us.
DB cut contact for 10years only getting back in touch when his wife left him.

So for 10years I was responsible for every Christmas, Easter, birthdays etc. I didn't mind this as my DM was very active in my childrens lives and we became quite close.
We did disagree on a number of things, she is very racist and has strong opinions. Bearing in mind my DH is mixed race this was difficult but she managed to bite her tongue.

When DB got back in touch he had gone through a breakdown and we helped him enormously to get back on his feet.
He has now remarried and lives in another country. I could really go on about the situation but want to get to the point.

I was a SAHM for many years but started a job in a company which I was helping to set up.
DM would phone me constantly and if I didn't answer would phone my DC to ask what I was up to?
I asked her not to do this as I found it annoying and she sent me a horrible message saying she was "finished with me" and stopped contact for a few weeks.
This would be a repeated pattern whenever I upset her and she would normally message with "what have I done?" I would phone her she would be in tears and we would get back to "normal"

I really could go on but worried this thread is too long already!

My DF became very ill and I had to beg my DB to return for a few days to help out. Everything was being left to me and mentally I couldn't cope because I am very close to DF.
DB did return and thankfully my DF got better, but for various reasons my DM said I hadn't supported her enough and DB was a hero.

I then had a breakdown myself, lots of reasons for this but I think faced with the possibility of losing DF tipped me.

I stayed at my parents for a few weeks because my DH wasn't really supporting me. She would constantly shout and scream at me that this was all DH fault and how he was responsible for my mental health.

There were lots of reasons for my breakdown, some things that I didn't want to tell her but she seemed to blame everything on DH. DB was called and asked to return back as she "couldn't cope"

He forced the issue to get me professional help and stayed a week or so.

DB and DM fell out with DH and are NC with him.
She constantly phones me, moaning and again if I don't answer will phone the children.

If I ask her to back off I get the tears and no contact for a few days which to be honest is a relief.
When I did stand up to her she blamed my therapist and said "this is going to go the way it did with your brother"

I really don't want to go NC but I'm so tired of this and I feel like my life isn't my own. My DB and DM will pick over everything together and repeat the same things to me constantly.

It has now been a week of NC from her because I cancelled a visit because I was feeling ill. I had been awake all night and couldn't face the drive. I've been starting to get panic attacks again and just don't know how to deal with all this.

Sorry for the long post, any advice would be appreciated.

I really am starting to feel like I'm being punished and that it's all my fault.

I feel like the fact that I had a breakdown gives her the right to constantly check on me.

Not sure if I should reach out or just leave it?

I'm giving this one more bump and would be grateful for any advice

What age is she op. God would hate someone that needy.. my boundaries good now found my mother gets over involved Im 50s not 15. She said I didnt reply to a text. I said im at work. !

Thank you @Mary46

I am 53 and she is 74. I've just had a message from my brother asking why I'm not talking to her!

Your mother sounds like a real narcissist. The Stately Homes thread might help you see that distance is your only solution here. Reduce contact to minimal. This might be impossible with your mother though as her 'flying monkeys' include your children.

How old are your kids? If they are over 16 then tell them you don't want to hear about what your mother says to them about you. Tell your brother this as well. You need to literally change the subject when they start repeating her complaints or telling you about conversations with her. If they are younger then try to reduce their phone time with her.

Wishing you the best. This is really horrible but have faith that your life will improve when there is less of her in it.

God yes its hard. Mine 80s. I had to say stop ring me Im working. Im lowish contact. People saying oh god she your mum are not dealing with difficult families)

I would not allow her to talk to your children; she can and indeed has manipulated them. They are also too young to realise they're being manipulated by their nan.

If your mother is too difficult/toxic/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids too. She could well go onto harm them in not too dissimilar ways as to how you've been harmed.

Give them the age appropriate truth re your mother. You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your children that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt

Do not forget either that your mother is a master manipulator. You all need to stay well away from her because she will and is trying to steal their hearts and minds from under your very nose.

OP, you keep repeating you don't know what to do, but all of the replies to your original thread kept telling you exactly what to do.
You came for advice and you got it. It's not a coincidence that all these people here keep saying the same thing.

Go NC
Keep going to therapy
Work through the guilt
Set healthy boundaries
Stop worrying about how everyone else feels about you protecting your mental health

I understand it's hard, but it's been spelled out for you numerous times. You're not going to get any other miraculous piece of advice that will end up fixing your whole toxic family dynamic. Your mum's horrible, so is your brother. You won't turn them into nice people. The only thing you can do is distance yourself.
Talk to your therapist about it. Maybe up the frequency of your sessions for the time being.

It bears repeating that your dad has stayed out of this and has ultimately chosen self preservation and a quiet life rather than help his children. He has failed completely to protect you from the excesses of your mother’s behaviour and has enabled her. You were never really able to rely on him either.

Why would you not go no contact with your mother?. Is it because of your dad but he has failed to protect you (and for that matter your brother who is now her carbon copy) from her. He has thrown you under the bus to protect his own self.

You have to let go completely of any and all residual hope you have that she will change and or say sorry. It will not happen.

This is what she is like and contact with her will ensure more of the same shit treatment for you. She had not fundamentally altered in all these these years. The only people who bother with people like her are those who have received the Special Training i.e. the now adult children of same. Honestly she is not worth bothering with or about.

Thank you for all your replies.

It would just feel wrong going NC. As I said my DB went NC for 10years. This was on the advice of a therapist.
When I've tried to distance myself before she says " oh this is going the same way as DB,"

My DC are young adults 19 and 22. They would hate it if I went NC. I would also feel incredibly guilty as both my parents are elderly and if anything happened to them I wouldn't forgive myself.

Deal with your FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) through therapy; you are truly mired in FOG and these three things were instilled in you by your mother.

Your children may well want to have a relationship of sorts with her but that does not mean you have to do so. Do not also go down the rabbit hole about your parents being elderly. If anything happened to you I doubt if your mother would feel anything to be honest because she is not built that way and she is not going to help your adult children.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Dear OP. Sometimes when family and family dynamics are just too toxic and overwhelming, the only thing to do is get away, really away, ie. NC. This is not something you need to do in anger after a big bust-up, but do it in order to actually survive, including psychologically. You will feel grief and loss, and need to work through it (time helps), but will also have the relief of freedom, which is wonderful. Where there is a golden child, there is also a scapegoat (you).

This happened to me too. I found having a kind of scapegoat narrative in my mind worked - first the scapegoat that is sent out into the desert to die (the ancient Jewish ritual whereby sins were heaped onto the animal who took them away). The "sins" in your story are other people's negative projections on to you, which don't belong to you. So accept that that is the role you have been given, but then let the narrative develop into something positive when it feels right. For me it was picturing the goat having crossed the desert and eventually finding a patch of green grass to eat just below the wall of a city, where it could make a home among friendly good and welcoming people. Its about survival, especially psychological survival.💐

Thank you @Cantalever

When I had my breakdown I attempted suicide. This is something I am deeply ashamed of.

I put them through so much worry and I feel so guilty.
So I get confused, is my mum justified in all this or is she just using it as an excuse to control me?
She accuses my DH of being manipulative but cannot see that she can be also.
Another example of her behaviour;
My teenager DD has a really messy room. She was helping her clean it when I went into hospital.
She said to her "no wonder your mum got ill if you leave your room like this?"

Op, please listen.
You can keep going on about how manipulative and controlling and downright horrible your mother is.
You can make countless lists about why you would feel bad about going NC.

But what good is that doing to anyone?
Do you think going NC is easy for anyone? Do you think there are people who end contact with their parent and not feel bad? That would be ridiculous.

There is a problem with your relationship with your mum and the dynamic with your brother.
You can't change how they behave. What you can change is how much of your time and energy you give them.
Guilt and shame are terrible emotions to guide you. They usually lead you to the worst possible decisions for your own mental health.

But you need to make a choice.
Either fix what's in your power to fix.
Or choose not to use the perfectly good solution in front of you, learn to accept her behavior for what it is and stop winding yourself up.

Thank you

Because of my mental health I question everything, which is why I've been so needy on this thread. But it's good to know that it isn't me, so thank you.

I

From my DB

That's really unfair of your brother. It seems he would deny you the space that he took for 10 years. He won't admit this though, you'd be hitting your head on a brick wall trying to get him to be honest about it.

You don't have go fully no contact. You can reduce communication, saying right now you need a breather. Even a week will help calm your head. Tell them you are super busy if it makes it easier. Mute their whatsapps so that you don't get notifications. Only respond at certain times of the day. Shut down any flying monkey behaviour from brother and children.

Your brother’s pushing your mother onto you because that takes her off his back.

Please go to Stately Homes thread. It deals with toxic parents.

This is the current Stately Homes thread OP https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5032064-march-2024-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes?page=31

@TangerinePlate
I think you're right. He is always saying to me to spend time with my mum.
He has lived abroad (European country) for 3 years and has come back twice.
Once, when my DF was really ill and I asked him to and once when I had my breakdown. That was because my mum asked him to as "she couldn't cope".

Tbh the only thing I can suggest is NC. I did it years ago and it's been a blessed relief. Only you know what will be the tipping point for that though.

Tell the flying monkey to fuck off.

Could you 'grey rock' her. in some cases NC is not possible. How about just not give her anything to feed on, When she calls say 'im fine' 'thats nice' no reaction, no fuel. when she calls and you cant /dont want to talk reject the call and text I'm sorry I cant take your call right now. call back when you are ready and grey rock
it will take time but she will loose interest.

As for DC's this is hard but you are their mother, and its down to you to set boundaries. you could block her number or set their phones not to accept calls in certain times.

you also need to set boundaries with your brother, tell him to back off , he was NC with her for years so hypocrisy is shocking...if he wants to talk to your DM 100 times a day he is welcome to, you will talk to her when you want to not when he tells you to.

Dear OP i am sorry about your suicide attempt, and hope you are in a better place now, even though these toxic family dynamics are still in place. You absolutely have to protect yourself from further harm because of family issues. Please time out to be NC even for a limited space of time. You may decide to make it permanent later. But right now you need that space. Tell your family you need a break and time to yourself
and not to contact you for say eight weeks. Really go NC during that time - try it out . At the end of the time, if you feel it best for your continued survival - psychologically and every way - to continue NC indefinitely, let them know, that's only fair - but not face to face. Don't discuss or get involved. Please prioritise yourself. You have been conditioned not to, but that is your goal now. Its about survival on every level.