How many people stay for a lifestyle/security?

[mbair20]

I am separated from DH the past 6 weeks, but he still wants to make it work. Our dc9 is miserable at the family breakdown and i know this is affecting her even more than she lets on- my own parents' divorce fucked me up royally for most of my adult life to date. DH wants us to start counselling and set some new goals for our marriage. We did counselling for almost a year before and within another year the same issues were surfacing (different argument/communication styles, different approaches to parenting, different needs for attention/conversation, resentment about past arguments.) I don't really miss DH much; I think over the years he has become quite spoilt and entitled due to his well paid career, and he is physically and emotionally quite lazy and has moods/sulks which affect everyone. He now thinks he has Aspergers which would explain a lot and i tend to agree. I do miss our shared jokes, our affection, silly things like his smile, his cooking, and we enjoy the same things like holidays, walks, bookshops, cinema, eating out etc. He is an ok dad to DC, though as I said quite lazy, hardly ever takes her out without being asked and doesn't do stuff like homework/school stuff or organising playdates/emotional support/taking her out on her bike even when the weather's a bit rubbish... the 'boring' stuff he leaves all that stuff to me. But regardless DC misses him and they do love video gaming together, it's their thing and I hate it.

I basically left because I was extremely depressed and lonely. I felt like DH and I had nothing to talk about anymore and we were arguing badly at times. we hadnt had sex in almost a year, because i just dont fancy him due to weight he has gained and poor hygiene as well as the arguments but I could never tell him about the weight thing as it would upset him. I felt so stressed by not knowing what to do about us that it was affecting my job and I was put on a PiP (which has now been lifted as I passed my probation period, thank god.) I couldnt hack the idea of not feeling sexual attraction. My resentment was growing to the point that things like his nail-biting habit and the tone of his voice and the fact he didnt put his socks in the laundry basket, made me really angry. We had arguments around DC that made me feel so guilty. So, i left with DC and went to stay with family. So far DC and I have been ok- seeing family lots, spending more time together, talking more. Dh and I have talked a bit. He's incredibly hurt and occasionally angry. We have both cried a lot on the phone.

The main thing I am 'mourning', I think, is our life together though. Together, we live in a really nice part of the city in a flat with garden, we have a very good household income, and we never worry about money. I grew up in poverty pretty much, and having that financial security and being able to enjoy life has never ceased to make me feel good and safe. We are able to save a lot which is important to me. We holiday several times a year, DC has whatever she needs and really good christmases/birthdays, I have been able to pursue a hobby that i never could before. Separated, i am ok financially- I work, can afford rent and bills and healthy food, a weekly activity for DC and bits and bobs she wants/needs, but I dont have any extra childcare support to do my own stuff and I also dont think I would necessarily want to go on the same holidays or do the same days out without another adult, even if i could afford a pared down version of my old life. I dont see myself wanting to get into another relationship for a long time as the old one just made me so depressed and I think i need to find "me" again.

Today, though, I miss my old life and I am so panicked at the idea of it being over. It makes me want to run back to DH and do the counselling and just accept that you can't have it all- attraction and conversation and security - in a marriage. He wants more DC, I could go either way, and that would be the condition of going back: planning to have at least one more DC. I know that. We are both mid 30s and not getting younger. I feel OK about it, though I don't think he is the best dad. He is more like an older sibling to Dc at times.

That was a digression but my question is, I don't know if it is actually normal for people who are unhappy to stay together for that security and familiarity in this day and age. Has anyone here done the same? Do you regret it?

Our dc9 is miserable at the family breakdown and i know this is affecting her even more than she lets on-
I basically left because I was extremely depressed and lonely.
A depressed mother will fuck a child up the most, whether that mother stays or goes. I suggest you seek therapy and a GPs help to sort out your depression, and start looking at social groups to help with the loneliness. Look away from your family unit and seek this elsewhere.

We did counselling for almost a year before and within another year the same issues were surfacing
If counselling for a year hasn't helped then it's never going to. Accept you are too different and find a way forward to co parent instead. A definition of insanity is to keep repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome. Don't be depressed, lonely AND insane 😉

Of course you miss him but you are missing the old him when you were the old you. Motherhood changes women but fatherhood rarely changes the man and your expectations in life grow apart. Sometimes you follow the same path and end up together in old age, but you two obviously aren't on that same path anymore. Just because you are divorcing doesn't mean you can't co parent successfully, and maybe living in different homes can let you "live" together enough for a weeks holiday or day trip as a family unit. Find your own way forward, but not to the detriment of your mental health.

EDIT - just noticed the part about you staying is based on the condition you have another child, Hell no, don't get anymore trapped than you are! If you are depressed now, you will be suicidal next year. Don't have any more children until you are happy.

There's a lot of information in your post, but the bit that really leapt out at me was that having a second child would be a condition of you going back - a condition placed on you by him. Is that right? Sorry but wtf? Why would he be placing conditions on you, when you're the one who's unhappy? He should be bending over backwards to persuade you to return! Quite apart from the fact that you definitely shouldn't have another child unless both of you want one.

Divorce is no picnic for kids. But going back now and then changing your mind at a later date would be even worse for her. So think very carefully OP.

@LemonCitron i guess what I mean is, DH wants another and i dont want to deprive him of that in his life, so we cant really get back together if we are not on the same page about that anyway. Like i said i am mildly broody as i get a little older but i also think i could just be ok with the one DC. I am not sure if i would regret another one. DC would love a sibling. God, sometimes i wonder, am i just living for what everyone else wants... Its like that line in the notebook.. "What do you want? Not what i want, he wants, what your parents want...." I have no idea. Its incredibly stressful.

The thing is, DH does not get why I am unhappy. I think he sees it as, he provides for me and DC really well, and we have a good life, what more do we need? He games with DC a few times a week and will come out with us if i suggest something but that's the extent of his 'parenting'. In regard to me, he does not look after himself to be attractive (which I always have) and he doesn't show any interest in the things I love like music, art or creative stuff, he doesn't ever sit out in the garden and chat with me over a glass of wine (without him getting too drunk and annoying, anyway). He unwinds by sitting on his computer gaming or watching youtube videos. His own dad was a high earner and his mum barely worked so thats the dynamic he grew up with. His dad also is very introverted and spends time doing a solitary hobby and I know his mum is lonely as she has talked to me about it before. Yes, I was able to go part time as a result of DH job, but I actually didt like that and have gone back full time as I need more work/stimulation for my self esteem. I was shopping a lot to fill the void I was feeling. But DH didnt mind me spending money and he genuinely cannot see what my issues are, about DC or our relationship.

But maybe he is right? Am i mad? Would everyone want to be in that position, having an easy life, is it a gilded cage or is that just dramatic..... It seems crazy sometimes to prioritise things like conversation or sex or love over security and familiarity. Maybe because of how i grew up. I have always worried about money. So i dont get what i am doing right now.. am i self sabotaging?!

I dont want to mess him or DC around. I just want to make the right choice. But i have no idea wtf to do.

OP there seems to be a lot there that could be salvageable but you are going to have to be brutally honest with H.

One positive thing is he knows now you won't "just stay".

So for a final roll of the dice I would find a time for you and him to go out, somewhere neutral, a sunny beer garden away from your usual local places, get a glass of wine and tell him everything you need to.

Write it all down beforehand so if he or you takes the conversation off on a tangent you can get it back on target and at least say what you need to say.

Tell him that you don't want to return for the wrong reasons (lifestyle), that you need a marriage with an adult (including conversation and personal hygiene and an interest in life outside the computer game box) and if he doesn't want the same that it's best you remain co-parents rather than partners.

You have to tell him the truth before you can make any decisions.

Perhaps suggest that you see these changes before you make any further decisions about moving back in together so as not to confuse DC further at the moment.

One step at a time.

It might just be the reset you all need. Or it might all just blow up, either way this limbo could go on forever unless one of you makes a leap in the dark.

Yes think the VAST majority of marriages are based on money and kids.

True love and true connection is extremely rare. It is a very small minority of marriages and it’s not really realistic to expect that.

So, as a caveat, in your situation I probably wouldn't stay because there seems to be too much about him that annoys you.You've had counselling and nothing's changed so yes, I think you'd be happier moving on. Deffo don't have another child if he's not effectively parenting the one you already have

But, to address your question, I do think for most people state of relationship vs security/lifestyle is a balance and not something people should be criticised for viewing differently, not least because some people "centre" their relationship with their DH/DP more than others.

Like when people say "DH and I are best friends and enjoy each others' company, parent well together and have no financial stress, but the passion has gone" and people say "leave. life's too short", I wouldn't agree that's a great idea at all.

I think lots of people stay for the lifestyle.
I don't judge people who leave a good setup because the passion has gone.
But honestly, someone failing to step up to parent their child and seemingly not wanting to is in fact a legitimate reason to leave someone, regardless of the other stuff. People will minimise it, or make excuses, but its actually a pretty big deal, and finding out your partner doesn't actually want to parent their child that you both created is a bit of a betrayal.

DH openly acknowledges that he has not been the best parent to DC. He regrets not being more engaged or less strict (which is what we argue about a lot.) But i know him, it has been 9 years, is he suddenly going to change his approach and be proactively spending quality time with DC... it has never happened. DC even knows it, she says that daddy always says he will do stuff with her but never does. Its just how DH was raised. His parents are not the taking kids to the park type, they never did kid centric day trips/holidays, they didnt offer a lot of emotional support or help him choose his path academically. Theyre nice but they are from a culture where the parents sit around and drink a lot socially and let the kids run around. Its just not what i wanted for my own kids.

Me and DH did have passion once but he has gained a lot of weight and he does not look after how he looks or smells or dresses really. But tbh what killed the passion was resentment and boredom for me. Also, a couple years back he accused me of being boring sexually and I think thats when i started to retreat a bit. Maybe i didnt realise how much that hurt me. He isnt seductive and yet he moans that im never in the mood.

I do wonder, observing friends/family, if my marriage isnt that different to the norm. Like, what am i looking for? In a weird way, being alone makes me feel more motivated and peaceful, im not sure why. But i have to say that lack of security is a huge source of stress for me and always have been, and i might be a fool to give that up. I just cant imagine me and DH having sex, for example. But i know we "could". he doesnt repulse me. It just seems transactional though. The other side of it is, if i ever raise grievances with Dh he doesnt want to hear it, and it would hurt him so much if i raised the weight thing as he is sensitive about that, so i know i won't.

I think the overwhelming problem is you’re not attracted to him and he annoys you. That doesn’t sound fixable. If it has only been a short term thing or you were in the menopause or just had a baby then it could be blamed on hormones
I wouldn’t have another baby with him either. One is fairly easy, two of a much more restricting especially if he doesn’t help. My DH doesn’t do the life admin for the kids but does look after them which does make a difference

You have only been apart 6 weeks and are sort of in the eye if the storm where it might feel tempting to just make it all go away, but you have made a huge decision and I think you need to see it through.
Not being attracted to him to the point you are actually repelled can quickly tip into serious resentment and dislike and you can't really get around that.

You could maybe try dating again (with him) without your daughter having any knowledge of it and I think that would very quickly help you decide one way or the other.

The other option is you have a relationship that is more a friendship/ Co parenting relationship but that is likely to be a mine field especially if he is in love with you.

Is everyone atttracted to their DH after the honeymoon period though? I just dont know.

I would stay on the condition of good hygiene, spelled out very specifically. As in shower every day, teeth twice a day, shaven and if you pick his clothes, he doesn't get to complain.

I would be neutral about another kid.

I would not get divorced over the rest of it.

Agree with PP you have to be 100% honest with him if there is any chance of him changing. That includes not looking after himself/personal hygiene.

Speaking personally, I could not go back to sleeping with a man who has to be told to keep clean. Omg.

To me it does not sound like you love him. It sounds like you could make a life for yourself without him. And also sounds like you could make a good go of coparenting.

I would not go back. I think you would regret it. Certainly I would not go back and have another DC. That would put you back financially and make you more dependent again which I suspect he likes the idea of as he can see you’re on your way out now.

Regardless of what his parents were like he could have chosen to be whatever type of parent he wanted. And he CBA. DC is 9 now. He’s missed that boat and it’s so sad but he had choices.

It sounds to me like you have so much potential to make a new and fulfilling life for you and DC. One that does not involve you picking up a smelly man’s socks off the floor or reminding him to wash himself.

Don’t rush into anything OP on the basis of your feelings today.

💐

You are trying to convince yourself that all will be well but you know it won’t. After a few months of effort it will be back to square one and the annoyances will come back. Not to mention the fact that you will have to have sex with someone you no longer fancy. Just stick to your original plan and move on.

Don't do it. I did. So don't.

He isn't able to see what you need. He can't understand what you are missing. Therefore he will always be impatient and dismissive of your needs.

He has ticked his side of the list, as he sees it. You are unreasonable for wanting more.

I warned DH that he needed to step up, or we'd end up divorcing. I thought he'd understand that this was serious, that he needed to pay attention, pull his weight, engage with me. He started saying what a shame it was we'd have to get divorced. He couldn't see there was anything at all he could do.

At that point I realised I was on my own and needed to decide whether to manage alone in a marriage with reasonable finances, or manage alone on half a wage.

I chose to stay and found my contentment elsewhere. Friends, books, community work. Once I wasn't depending on him for emotional support I was ok. But it's no marriage. And I was young to give up on sex (because who wants sex with someone you have no emotional attachment with?).

He's family. We get on fine. I have accepted a smaller life.

Do not go back, keep moving forwards.

Nothing you have written about him suggests Asperger’s and that word is not used these days re the autistic spectrum. How dare he use that too as an excuse for his slob like and otherwise poor behaviours to you and your child, it’s an insult to your intelligence frankly.

Never accept a smaller life, it just prolongs the agony and does no party any favours whatsoever, be brave and make the break permanent.

NC. This is actually one of the best and honest posts on this subject. Op has clarity of issues.

i would go see a therapist on my own to work through what you put in the op.

i think, with enough help, OP can salvage the marriage.

after therapy, OP needs a businesslike meeting or email sent to DH which will have to be honest and brutal if OP wants the marriage back.

DC- she is 9. Ask her to come up with a list of days/ times she wants to spend with DH and the activity she wants. Unfortunately DH will have no say in this, but accept it. Find one or 2 more routine activities or set date with varying activities plus gaming time.

i agree with you on weight. I couldn’t put up with the smell sorry- that would be a deal breaker for me. But then I voice my opinion swiftly. When DH had to recover his business which also it collapsed so he was a bit depressed by it (not clinically depressed); I noticed 2 days would go without a shower. I just started asking him: ‘oh have you showered today?’ As if I haven’t noticed he also didn’t shower previous day. He soon started showering at midnight when it was his end of day time although he worked until 5/6pm
then did his gaming and then worked again for 1 more hour (banking stuff) before sleep.

likewise, I can’t stand too much weight. He started sitting in lounge without his gown (long story). I started bringing his gown to him - just so I didn’t see the tummy starting to overhang.

I spoke out when his T-shirts started looking ludicrous! He was quick to claim it was a ‘bloat’. I didn’t stop. Soon he started his daily 30 min workout in our hot tub at 22:00. Within 2 weeks, he was back in shape. After 1 week although I started to see the change, I opted to say nothing for fear of him stopping thinking job done.

DH can eat anything and does golf. I however hate the sight of a grown man eating a 500g mix (fruits and nuts) in one go- just the sight of stuffing is off putting. I especially know cashew nuts are fattening. So I would comment. So he knows to eat before we go shopping as he is terrible with bad food when hungry.

he eats one meal a day and a toast. In summer he only likes salad. All I am saying is, you need to be clear about the weight and you need to tackle it. I am slim and like fasting etc. my DH always comments of fat people on TV so I know he wouldn’t want me overweight (he thinks I am underweight so no concerns about me putting on weight as I keep it in healthy range). So the hypocrisy of pausing the tv remote to comment was not lost on me either when I need to deal with his.

after he lost it, I did say to him, no spouse wants an overweight spouse unless it is for a medical reason/ has a med condition. He agreed.

good luck OP. You have bad things to work on, but you also seem to have a lot of good things going- hence you need outside help/ prof to help you come to the middle or not.

No!! I would bet 90% of spouses are not attracted to each other long term.

Like I said before marriage is about money and kids. Long term marital couples who are still in love and attracted to each other just got lucky and hit the jackpot because that is VERY rare.

Millions do it to some extent - half the posts on here boil down to that trade-off.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I has this dilemma 2 1/2 years ago. In the end, I couldn’t stand it any more. What it was doing to me, what it was doing to DD. He kept implying I made him unhappy so I figured I’d let him go. Ironically he jumped straight into a new relationship, moved in with her and her teenagers, so now he has more responsibility than ever!
The first couple of months were tough. Starting to go it alone, trying to get a handle on finances. DD struggled with it and kept saying she wanted us back together or him to come home for a sleepover 🤷🏻‍♀️ but she gradually adjusted.
It’s still a financial hardship. It’s tough going from two incomes with savings to living month to month. But I feel freer, less anxious, less depressed than I did before. I’m progressing my career, a move a may not have made if we’d stayed together. DD has adjusted. Her Dad sounds a lot like your’s (gaming, lack of pride in his appearance or hygiene). She tolerates going but I doubt she’ll spend loads of time with him when she has full control over the choice when she’s older.

I think alot stay for the lifestyle or get caught in the promise of it and are stuck.

One of my ex friends met someone who convinced her he was wealthy, had a good job and she uprooted to buy a very expensive house. Within days she found out he wasn't wealthy and his job was on the line. They married and he refused sex. He was then sacked. She's worked 2 jobs for years whilst he pissed about gambling and "writing". He's been retired for 25 years now and she's with an old man who would be entitled to half if they split up.

My bf's friend's ex is only with her DH because of the lifestyle. She's never wanted to provide for herself and he gets fed up with providing.

I would never want to be in either of those positions.

It will get better OP. We all had 'what have I done?' moments after a marriage break up but 18 months on I've never been happier.
It's hard, it's tough being skint, it's hard hearing your children cry or hearing from teachers that they're upset, but is it worth sacrificing your happiness? For what? The chance that you could go to all inclusive resorts on holiday? A cage is a cage.
Tell him it's over and get some counselling.

@AGlinnerOfHope please get out, you deserve it

@Lucy807 thats kind, but we’re ok. He’s family. We look after each other. I’m not in the best of health now, and we can have a happy life.

not an exciting one, but happy!