My mum keeps trying to involve me in her divorce. I can't and don't want this.

[OvershareNightmare]

Parents divorcing after 35 years. I'm early 30s, no kids (soon, hopefully) and live abroad. The reason for divorce is my dad's historic infidelity which came to light many years later.

My mum has always been extremely emotional over most things, both big and little. e.g. finds it difficult to regulate conflicts with other people, will take offence at the most minor of issues and then tell you in great detail how offensive and hurtful it all was. Every year her birthday is a nightmare to navigate (she is only just cottoning on to the idea that people being busy is not a personal slight).

I'm not excusing my dad's behaviour, nor am I expecting my mum to not be upset, but she has form for phoning me in the evenings and ranting about "your FUCKING USELESS TWAT of a father" and "you will not BELIEVE what he did to me on FRIDAY", detailing another perceived slight. My dad is not an easy person either and plenty of this stuff has basis, but none of this is surprising and I'm completely over my mum calling me to overshare. I didn't ask for this. I'm in therapy myself because I don't know how to deal with any of it and my entire family (both extended and close) are a full on can of worms. My therapist says I am very pragmatic and too forgiving.

I don't want to be the receptacle for my mother's venting. Maybe she's lonely, but she has plenty of friends and apparently discusses all of this with them, too. And also, overwhelmingly, for me offloading to every man and his dog actually makes me feel worse because you stay upset for longer.

I actually would like to have a positive relationship with my mother. She's not perfect and living with her was a nightmare during my teens, but I'm an adult now and I can't hold it all against her forever, but the relentless oversharing and talking about her emotions leaves no space for any emotions anyone else might be feeling and also is making it hard to have a good relationship with her now. Any advice? Does the dynamic have any hope of changing?

Of course OP - but you are going to have to be the one to make the change. It’s not acceptable for your mum to put you in this position. Even if she had nobody else to talk to about this stuff (and she does) it would still be inappropriate for her to talk to you about your father in this way. Her relationship with him is separate from your relationships with them as individuals. Let her know that you don’t wish to discuss her issues with your father, and if she persists then remind her of this. If she still persists, politely disengage. And do that every time.
She has no reason to change while you are still engaging with the subject.

Have you spoken up?

’mum, I love you. I don’t condone what dad did and I understand your reasons for divorce. But I also love my dad, and I can’t be in the middle of this. Please don’t be offended, but my relationship with you cannot be about your divorce with my dad’

I think you need to tell her that you understand her frustration with him, but that you are not taking sides between your parents, will continue to have a positive relationship with both her and him, and that you are not the right audience for this conversation. Surely she must have some girlfriends who she can vent to?

Thank you all. I have told her before that I don't wish to talk about it. It is difficult having to constantly reassert this. Yesterday when she called I was noticeably unenthused and basically didn't say anything and she kept going, which she subsequently acknowledged ("I know nobody wants to hear it, but I AM HURT"), so she knows she is doing this. Her view is that we are all victims together, which makes it difficult to find nuance, and she basically continues to trample on my boundaries. She has already told me more than I need to know, in a way which makes it extremely difficult to address with my father.

@Catopia yes, she has girlfriends, lots of female colleagues who she can and does chat to (they all seem equally emotionally incontinent in her tellings)

You won't ever have a positive relationship with your mother because she is not built that way. Instead you're going to have to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. She was a nightmare to live with when you were a teenager and I would argue she has not changed at all since then.

Making you a confidant like this is unfair to say the very least and she has not cared at all let alone realised the impact such has had on you. These types of parents really have no insight or empathy. She's not really talking about her emotions either; she is talking about how absolutely wronged or otherwise slighted she's been by your dad. In her head she is right and no-one else matters.

Refuse to take sides and if she starts banging on about dad then end the call immediately. Keep disengaging every single time she starts on at you about dad. Cut down further the amount of contact you have with her.

You need to be super super firm with your boundaries which will be difficult.

If she starts these rants I would interrupt her and say

'Mum I would love to hear about other parts of your day but I don't wish to talk about dad and the separation'

If she adheres to this great, if she doesn't then you need to say

'Mum I have said I don't wish to talk about dad and the separation so I am going to go, please call me if you want to discuss something else'

You need to keep this boundary, stand up for yourself and not loose sight of it.

Do you think it's completely impossible?

Contact-wise it's ok, I speak to her about once a week, though she does visit from time to time which is more intense. She seems to harbour notions of being a full-time nanny for my children (not happening)

Yes re not being able to have a positive relationship with her and I would also keep her well away from your children. If she is too difficult for you to deal with, its the same deal for your children too.

I agree with @AttilaTheMeerkat. It's not that you will never have positive moments with your mother but you need to let go of any hope you have for a loving mother daughter relationship, it's not possible for your mother to be that kind of parent to you.

Take a firmer stance with her and if she calls you to rant make up an excuse 'oh, sorry mum the dog is on fire, got to go' and put the phone down, you're not available for venting to, she needs to find another more appropriate audience for that.

but the relentless oversharing and talking about her emotions leaves no space for any emotions anyone else might be feeling and also is making it hard to have a good relationship with her now

I'm going to hold my hand up and say this was me. I was venting to any and everybody trying to get help, or sympathy, or good advice, on how to cope. Cope with him, cope with my feelings, cope with my new reality, cope with life. I was borderline suicidal and was drowning.

What changed it all was me making a decision. Taking charge of my future. Knowing what I wanted but mostly how to get what I wanted. So I suggest you ask her what she wants in her future going forward. She cannot change the past. She cannot change him. So she either needs to have acceptance (therapy, marriage counselling, or both could help here) that this is her life until she dies or she chooses her own path. That can be divorced, or living a separate life under the same roof or separate houses. But she needs to take a deep breath and decide.

EDIT - stupid me didn't notice the first sentence. They ARE divorcing 🙄

I would suggest that your mum get therapy ASAP. My folks also divorced after 35 years of marriage but there was no infidelity. My dad was just rooted in the patriarchy and my mum suddenly had a form of feminist awakening and said she wanted more from her partner than just being a cook and cleaner. He wouldn't change as he was never going to do "women's" work. My mum talked about my dad until her dying day. Every single conversation we had since their divorce would somehow segue into my dad being a prat. I can understand that your mum feels extremely betrayed by your dad and she is struggling to come to terms with this, but speaking poorly about your dad is not going to solve anything and you are the wrong audience. If she doesn't want therapy, perhaps tell her that you will only listen to her trash-talking your dad on the last Friday of each month. That way she can save up all her stories about him and it can be over in an afternoon. Good luck!💐

The crap marriage she endured was one she enabled by putting up with it. It is not appropriate or acceptable that she discusses that relationship with you.. the product of that marriage. When she phones and starts her rant tell her to stop or you will hang up. And do exactly that! Each and every time. You are an adult and rightly decide who you will have in your life. And who you will not tolerate.
She either respects your decision or loses you.
I decided a long time ago to give my time, care and energy only to people who enhance my life and make me feel good.
Stick to that.. it is completely liberating.

She thinks she doesn't need therapy. She started it last year after we told her she had to go because she was phoning us every single day to cry and shout about him, but has since stopped for financial reasons, which are not entirely insurmountable, she's just choosing not to prioritise therapy over e.g. her holiday to Spain

Yes, if anything since the decision has been made the ranting has been worse again. A lot of it seems to be sympathy-based ("the lawyer said this" or "the counsellor gave me a discount because there is SO much to unpick"). I feel for her, very deeply. But a lot of it is completely inappropriate and/or sexual stuff I never wanted to know about either of my parents

I agree.
OP my late mother did this too. Every phone call was her moaning about my dad, even years after they were divorced. When I told her I didn’t want to hear her constant complaints about him - and there was nothing I could do to help - she called me selfish.
I eventually went LC. I really wanted to go NC but just couldn’t do it to her when I was expecting DC. And what did she do? Came to see me in hospital the day after a very traumatic birth, emergency CS, me lying in bed with swollen legs, DC in special care - she mithered on about how awful my father was!
Protect yourself. Do what @AttilaTheMeerkat said. Otherwise she’ll do this forever, and most likely get worse as she gets older.

@FictionalCharacter goodness, that sounds awful. Not nearly the same but a few weeks ago I had minor surgery, hadn't caught up with her in a while so phoned once I'd got back home. I was lying in bed with stitches in my swollen face and she went on about him for almost four hours. I was exhausted.

Edited to add – she acknowledged my bruised and swollen face maybe twice and didn't seem bothered at all

Why did you let her talk for four hours when you were tired from surgery?
You need to learn some stock phrases and keep repeating them as necessary and be prepared to put the phone down if she keeps crossing your boundaries. You can't change her, you can only change your own response.

Hang up, everytime she starts to switch to inappropriate subjects hang up, the abruptness will hopefully shock her into realising you've had enough.

OP a positive relationship takes two. You can't make it happen on your own and your mum has her own version of a positive relationship, one where you listen to as much as she throws at you and then you agree and sympathise with her. And if you won't do the second bit she'll make do with the first.

Being blunt you're not going to get what you want so you have to take a step back and decide how you're going to interact with the mother you have rather than the one you would like. You don't have to be her emotional punchbag/sponge and it's fine, good even, to have boundaries for yourself that you don't allow her to cross.

Be proactive. Put the phone down. Be prepared to tell her in words of one syllable that you are not taking sides and you don't want to hear it. You're not the one being selfish, she is. So change your mindset.

I totally hear you op. I was a young teenager at the time, but i was constantly put in the middle of my parents’ divorce like this and didn’t feel able to speak up at the time.

My mum sounds a lot like yours and tbh, our relationship is tricky. At around 30, i suddenly realised i didn’t have to take her hullshit any longer and starting calling her out on more things. Just continue to tell it to her straight, that you’re not there to be put in the middle of your parents and you’re no longer willing to listen to her vent. Sometimes our parents need to be called out on their ridiculous behaviour and they struggle with hearing it as they firmly thing they are right as they are the parent in the relationship. But they need to hear it.

and/or sexual stuff I never wanted to know about either of my parents

Ooooof!! Yeah, I'm with you on that. And after reading about your 4 hour conversation after surgery I think you need to do one big discussion and lay out some boundaries. What do you think your line is? Perhaps start with:

No sexual or deeply private information must be given. Ever. Or the phone is put down immediately.

She needs to acknowledge that she is talking about your father, someone you have strong emotional ties to that is independent of her emotional ties. By venting about him she could actually be hurting you in the process. Is this something she understands?

You need to practice
"Sorry mum, I don't need to know this".
"Im sorry you feel like this but maybe you need to discuss this with your therapist - you don't have one? - well I think you need to prioritise it as I cannot help" .
"If you continue then you will force me to hang up. I don't want to do that".
but the best one to practise is "I think it's best if we changed the subject for now".

You shouldn't have to add sorry to the statements but I find it can soften the delivery enough for them to feel heard and therefore will hear you in return.

You need to enforce your boundaries even when it's difficult and exhausting. No way should you let her rant for 4 minutes, much less 4 hours! She has friends to talk to, and she should not talk to you about sensitive, intimate things regarding your father.

I'm probably your mum's age, if not older, and she is self-centered, inappropriate and abusive of your time and energy.

EVERY time she starts her rants tell her you won't listen and hang up. EVERY time. She will eventually stop. If she rings, pick up if you feel up to it (don't if you don't) and tell her right away that you won't listen to her complaints about your father. EVERY time. You can change her behavior, but you must be consistent--EVERY time.

Thanks all, I appreciate the scripts and stock phrases in particular, because they're something I struggle with when she's in full flow. I can easily do "mm", "ok", "right" but being more active is challenging and something I very much need to work on.

Would it help you to draft out an email/text and send it to her?

Something along the lines of 'I understand that you are finding the divorce incredibly difficult, but I am not prepared to take sides or get involved with it. This is causing me distress and I need to protect my own mental health. I am happy to talk to you about other things, but be aware that if you bring up either Dad or the divorce I will just put the phone down and not answer if you call back. This sounds harsh, but you are starting to make me ill'.

And then stick to it. She's so utterly swept up in her own ego that you will need to spell it out really clearly to her. If she's 'hurt' then tough shit. She can either deal with your boundary or lose the relationship altogether. You don't have to take this from anyone. (I'm probably your mother's age)