My mum keeps trying to involve me in her divorce. I can't and don't want this.

[OvershareNightmare]

Parents divorcing after 35 years. I'm early 30s, no kids (soon, hopefully) and live abroad. The reason for divorce is my dad's historic infidelity which came to light many years later.

My mum has always been extremely emotional over most things, both big and little. e.g. finds it difficult to regulate conflicts with other people, will take offence at the most minor of issues and then tell you in great detail how offensive and hurtful it all was. Every year her birthday is a nightmare to navigate (she is only just cottoning on to the idea that people being busy is not a personal slight).

I'm not excusing my dad's behaviour, nor am I expecting my mum to not be upset, but she has form for phoning me in the evenings and ranting about "your FUCKING USELESS TWAT of a father" and "you will not BELIEVE what he did to me on FRIDAY", detailing another perceived slight. My dad is not an easy person either and plenty of this stuff has basis, but none of this is surprising and I'm completely over my mum calling me to overshare. I didn't ask for this. I'm in therapy myself because I don't know how to deal with any of it and my entire family (both extended and close) are a full on can of worms. My therapist says I am very pragmatic and too forgiving.

I don't want to be the receptacle for my mother's venting. Maybe she's lonely, but she has plenty of friends and apparently discusses all of this with them, too. And also, overwhelmingly, for me offloading to every man and his dog actually makes me feel worse because you stay upset for longer.

I actually would like to have a positive relationship with my mother. She's not perfect and living with her was a nightmare during my teens, but I'm an adult now and I can't hold it all against her forever, but the relentless oversharing and talking about her emotions leaves no space for any emotions anyone else might be feeling and also is making it hard to have a good relationship with her now. Any advice? Does the dynamic have any hope of changing?

You are too nice!

Reiterate that it isn't appropriate for her to rant because he is your dad regardless of what he has done. Remind her she can chat to her female friends about her marital/divorce issues. Tell her firmly- I'm going to hang up if you starts. If she starts, remind her once and then hang up.

I went through the same when my parents split after 23 years of marriage..I'd just turned 21.

My father had been unfaithful for most of the marriage, and my mother always knew, so it wasn't quite the same. My father finally left my mother for another woman 6 months after my younger brother turned 18.

When they split, I had to hear all the horrible details of their marriage and divorce. I'm the only girl and my mother said that 'as an adult I needed to know the truth about my father'... I was in shock and didn't have the guts to tell her to shut the fuck up. She demanded that both myself and my two brothers cut all contact with him, because 'he'd abandoned us as well'...the fact we were all over the age of 18 seemed to have escaped her...

That was 35 years ago and she's no better. She's never stopped slagging my father off, in fact I'd say she's worse, even more bitter now. I moved to the other side of the world when I was 24 and am now very low contact with her.

If I could go back in time to the point you are at now, I'd bluntly tell her what you've said here. That yes, he's behaved badly towards her, but he's still your father, always will be, and you want a relationship with them both going forward.

I tried to talk to my adult children about problems with their dad and they pretty much blanked me. Fair enough, that's their right, if they don't want to be involved, so be it. I've managed for quite some time although its been tough on my own. Then son needed a complicated bit of childcare which would involved grandad having DGCs one to one. And suddenly everyone wants to talk about it. Call me an old cynic if you like but I can't help feeling this is all a bit one sided. Maybe its time for a few 'boundaries ' of my own.

@Notthatcatagain I think it's absolutely fine if you say you don't want to be involved or hear about your ex-husband now you're past that stage and leave it up to them. But – without knowing your situation – I'm curious as to why you wanted to talk to your DCs about the issues with their father. Surely the issues are between the two of you? As the adult child in this situ, I feel like parents shouldn't be going to their children for validation about the other parent, even when it is tricky.

@OvershareNightmare Your point to @Notthatcatagain is right.

I've been having treatment for C-PTSD for a decade, and one of the things said by my psychologist about this situation is that my mother had absolutely no right in involving me in her marriage breakup - her marriage to my father is/was/should have been a completely separate relationship to the one where they were (and always will be) both my parents. Expecting your children, even as adults, to be your counselor is wrong. It's too much of a burden to put on them and is very selfish.

Likewise. I think the mother-daughter thing is tricky. I know if my daughter were to divorce, I would absolutely be there for her in whatever she wanted to vent about her marriage. I guess I have made the mistake of thinking that would be reciprocal and I've been guilty of over-sharing about my difficulties with her step-father. In truth, I didn't really have anyone else to talk to about it.

You let her rant at you for FOUR hours?! Bloody hell, you must have the patience of a saint.

Does she just talk and talk and talk, pausing only to take breath? If you do manage to get a word in edgeways, just say something like "Hello... hello? Are you there...? I can't hear you... hello?" and then put the phone down. As soon as it rings again, cut the call off after a couple of seconds. Very satisfying.

pavlovs dogs. Text her and state that you’re not prepared to discuss your dad full stop. This is not negotiable. Each time she does overstep be unreachable for a fortnight, minimise contact drastically, state you’re having a break from her calls because you’ve asked her not to discuss dad but she has continued to do so. If she goes on about how hurt she is, reinforce your boundary and immediately cut the call short. Be abrupt. Repeat repeat repeat.

The problems are because of his poor mental health and my inability to care for him alone. I never asked them to be my counsellors but a bit of moral support, the occasional visit or maybe taking him out the odd afternoon would improve my life no end. I hardly think its selfish of me to expect them to spare a couple of hours for their dad once in a while.

Have you spoken to your therapist about this OP? I'm guessing you have. My DSis used to have non-existent boundaries and her life was miserable as a result. A therapist helped her to develop firm boundaries, to assert herself, to not feel guilty for doing so, to respect and fiercely protect her own mental health and wow! It's literally changed her life. What I read in everything you've written is that you don't have clear boundaries with your DM and she doesn't respect you or your right NOT to be talked at endlessly by her. To her, you're someone she can just rant and vent to ad nauseam, she's the victim, she has that right as the victim, and she has zero empathy for you. But that's partly because you don't respect your boundaries either. Build a barricade and defend it.

@Thatcatdrivesmenuts You are looking for practical help with your husband, @OvershareNightmare 's mother is demanding emotional support during her divorce, asking her to take sides against her father, which is inappropriate.

If your children are having issues with childcare, perhaps they aren't in a situation where they can offer practical support in looking after their father?

Even though my DM wanted the divorce she never stopped bitching about my DF. She had this weird way of talking about it (because every single thing had to be about her) as if I wasn't privy to it. "When I was married ... My husband did". She also tried to prise herself in his next relationship. I think in part it was regret and she hated that he moved on when no one wanted her. I eventually went NC with her about this and about her abuse.

For your DM I bet everyone has had enough of her going on and you are the only one left to listen to the ranting and raving. 4 hours of it is abusive.

When she starts tell her to stop. He is still your DF. If she doesn't stop put the phone down. Each and every time. She has to grow up and find a way to process this without offloading on you. Otherwise it will never stop.

@user1471538283 "When I was married ... My husband did".

God yes! My mother does that as well! If I dare to remind her that, actually I was there as well, as he's my father, she gets defensive to the point of being personally nasty. She's even - a number of times - turned to me or my older brother and said 'I hate that you look so much like your father'...a fucking awful thing to say to your child. Of course the one time I cracked and said 'well you picked him Mum' all hell broke loose....

I experienced very similar when my parents split three years ago, from both sides.
I was very calm, didn't let myself get emotional and when I was told things about their marriage (there's things I don't need to or want to know about why they weren't working), I'd say 'you're making me uncomfortable. Please stop.'
My mum was prone to emotional outbursts and would start screaming about things, and my dad would not scream but still tell me things so I repeated it as many times as I needed to. And they got the hint.
Fwiw I have great relationships with them both now, and I get it was tough for them but I wasn't going to be used an emotional punching bag or as a pawn for them to use against eachother.
Be strong OP and don't stop asserting yourself.

I should add I would speak to them when they were down and always validate their feelings, I just didn't want to be a part of it when it got personal or when I heard 'your dad did this' or 'your mum did this'.

@FreeRider - I'm on another really helpful thread where we are dealing with our narcissistic DMs. They are all the same despite thinking that they are or were so unique.

My DM is long dead now thank goodness but I'm still processing what she did to me. I hope you are managing okay with yours x

@user1471538283 Thank you! Yes, I cope by being on the other side of the world from her. It's come at a high personal cost, I'd rather be living in my home country, but the last time I did she drove to the point where I had a massive nervous breakdown and attempted suicide. I came to the UK with less than £50 to my name and was homeless for a month - it was worth it.

I've not actually seen her in 15 years and I'm in no hurry to. Both my parents were narcissists - it amuses me now how my mother can't understand why neither myself or my two brothers have had children of our own.

Wow I feel like I'm reading a thread about my own mother. When my Dad left her she handled it horribly and irreparably damaged her relationship with me in the process. I was late teens at the time, now 46 and we hardly speak after decades of me trying so hard with her.
She could never see past her own hurt and upset, I was never allowed to be the upset one despite the fact that I lost my dad too (when he left he properly left, left the country and made no contact with any of us).
It was a truly awful time but even after she remarried, visits would still involve hour long sessions of her tears.
She has a new husband, I'll never get a new dad! But still, it's all about her.
I'm sorry OP, as previous posters have said, you may need to distance yourself to protect yourself. I did, and it's better than the alternative to be honest.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. @cheezncrackers you've hit on a really important point around self-respect. It's something I'm working on, and really building these boundaries with my parents is the reason why I am seeing the therapist (early days though and I think it'll take a long time).

Interestingly my sister has similar problems and is trying to do the same, in terms of role modelling I don't think having boundaries is something we've been shown how to do particularly. If I were asked honestly, would my mum put up with this and listen to her mum for hours on end, I think the answer is yes. They have their own weird relationship. There's a bit of cycle-breaking to be done, essentially.

@FreeRider where are you from? I'm in the UK now but my family are all in NZ.

@Thatcatdrivesmenuts I think there's a clear difference. I would 100% give moral support were one of my parents ill. This is a version of "he cheated on me and has stolen my youthful years where I was hot, why did he have to do this to ME" every week, on repeat.

@Mainats I do dearly love my mum and I'm her eldest daughter and I want to support her. There are factors that it tricky when you look back on how it all unfolded, my siblings are all much younger. I am the only pre-infidelity child, so I'm the only one who would always have been born, which my mum regularly points out. But we are not sisters, nor can I fix this for her. And she does have other people to talk to.

@OvershareNightmare I was born in Australia, mother Australian, father French.

@Shudacudawuda But still, it's all about her. I think that sentence sums up the experience of many on here. My whole childhood, my parents put their own feelings, and wishes first. Myself and my brothers ALWAYS came second. For a long time I thought that was 'normal', until I started witnessing families - like me ex-husband and partner - where that wasn't the case. The anger that realisation has released is something that I still struggle with on a daily basis.