Manopause? Angry husband

[WinterWonder]

The first time I wrote this I said ‘we’ are in a cycle of falling out, but it just isn’t true- my OH falls out with me over tiny inconsequential things, and then we hardly speak and just tolerate each other for days or weeks. Last week he wanted me to show him a certain film. During the film at an important point he was distracted & I drew his attention to what he was missing- that was it. Silence/minimal contact for days, no affection at all. He always refuses to talk about it when this happens, & trying to talk makes him really angry. I much prefer to talk about my problems, but he never will. I feel miserable when he is like this, as when he isn’t like this he is extremely affectionate.
it feels like it is just more and more frequent, and when he is ok I’m just waiting for whatever it is that blows him up again. He is in his early 40’s and we’ve been married over 20years- is this normal? What should I do to snap him out of it?

No, this is not normal - it is the nice/nasty "cycle of abuse". As you are experiencing, abuse never gets better and it never stays the same, it invariably gets worse (and will continue to escalate).

He is not abusive because he is angry, he is angry because he is abusive. I would ring Women's Aid and have a chat with them. Men don't have to be physically violent to be abusive, in fact the worst abusers are able to control another person simply using psychological abuse (which is what stonewalling and refusing to talk to you is).

You are desperately trying to alter your behaviour to minimise his abuse, but as you are discovering that is impossible. The only thing you can do to reduce or end abuse is to remove yourself from the vicinity of the abuser.

You may find the books Why Does He Do That and Living With The Dominator very eye opening. Do you have anyone in real life you can talk with honestly about how your husband treats you? Your husband should treat you with respect, love and care. Not contempt.

@TusconTrain
Not really. It’s hard to open up about how bad I feel to friends or family, because when he is ok I don’t want them thinking about it.
when he isn’t being moody we are good together, but the moods are just so frequent now.
often his bad mood pushes me to feel really low, but this week I decided to try to ignore it. I’ve just carried on as if nothing is happening and done my own thing.
we’ve been married over 20 years and for most of it I’ve really felt like I’m his favourite person, but for the last 6 months whenever he is ok I’m just waiting for it to flip

@MateyMusings this is what I’m hoping it is. He is just so resistant to any discussion, and when we are either happy or just rubbing along and not arguing I’m afraid to try to raise the issue as I know it will lead to upset

I think if it helps do more ignoring him at these times. Just do your own thing. Make sure when these times stop, it's because he starts interacting first, not you. I don't think I could hold my tongue, I'd have to say something sarcastic at the moments he starts to interact again. "Decided you've moped long enough have you?" Probably guaranteed an extension to the mood, I'm not for placating.
"Just let me know when you've finished being on one" is another phrase that springs to mind when it starts. Kinda shows him up for the frequent arse he's being.
Not sure how you flip back into being nice with him in between, I'd find that too hard and stick to doing my own thing, probably until I'm independent of him enough to leave.

Silence/minimal contact for days, no affection at all. He always refuses to talk about it when this happens, & trying to talk makes him really angry

This is absolutely unacceptable.

At the very least, he needs to acknowledge this is a problem and show that he is taking steps to address it. If he isn't, he may become worse & worse over the years. He's only in his early 40s now, so God knows what he'll be like in time.

What he's doing is lashing out at you. It might not be physical or verbal, but that's what is is. He may be genuinely angry, in which case he has an anger problem, or he might be doing it to punish you deliberately, in which case its abuse, but it's still affecting you either way.

I wasn't in the exact same situation as you, but I know what it's like to practically have to fawn over someone so that they're nice, or at least normal towards you. Mine often used to totally deny that anything was wrong, even though I could clearly see that it was. I thought this was unintentional, until I realised one day that part of him enjoyed the service I provided. It more intentional than I thought. I think he kept quiet and made no attempt at self-soothing so I would fawn over him even more. It didn't matter how it affected me it seems - I think he enjoyed the attention, at my expense.

You see, it puts people in a subordinate position where they have to work hard just to clear the atmosphere and avoid any further disrespectful behaviour.

Unless you can pin it down to something like work stress, I'm guessing he is getting increasingly neurotic or bad tempered with age, or he's had his head turned.

Days of silent treatment over a film? He’s controlling, not angry. No wonder he doesn’t want a discussion about it.

Go and stay with a friend every time it happens and tell people what’s going on.

@Opentooffers yes this is broadly the way I’m coping currently. It helps it’s a time of the month I feel less vulnerable. I know exactly how it will pan out- he will eventually make some comment about my being cross or not wanting to be with him, and when I remind him he started it he will act like he doesn’t know what I mean.
i just wish he would have it out when he is upset and we could sort it at the time.

@EarthSight i have in the past just tried carrying on as usual (being affectionate to him and pretending not to notice him being cold back) but it really takes its toll.
He is exactly as you say- denies there is anything wrong though there clearly is, and my asking him what’s wrong becomes another thing to be angry about

@Olivia2495 id love to, but I can’t leave the kids. They aren’t young, but they can’t bare the brunt of his moodiness without me

It’s not going to stop no matter how much you grovel. It’s going to get worse when there are no witnesses once the kids leave. And what sort of relationship will either of you have with them when they have grown up tiptoeing around their moody abusive father?

What is stopping you from ending this miserable marriage? You really need to find your outrage that he is bullying you all like this.

All that time and energy you're currently using up on trying to work out why he's doing this, what you could do differently to change his behaviour and which pretzel shape you should be bending yourself into to appease him could be being spent on getting your ducks in a row to separate you know OP. Think about that, and look up Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why does he do that?' online, there are free pdf versions you can download. There's a section on the different types of abuser, pretty sure yours would be a 'water torturer'. It's a bit of a revelation when you see all their behaviour described to a tee and given a name, makes you realise how abusive they actually are. You and DC deserve better than this

If this is a recent development, have there been any other changes that might point to an affair?

Some men get very irritable or uncaring when their attention moves elsewhere (really hoping that’s not it)

OP, you said he's been different for the last 6 months. You should make every effort that the two of you have a proper conversation about what's going on but be prepared to find out that he's having an affair.

He may be mentally breaking up with you although he won't actually tell you for awhile.

I really don’t want it not to work out. We have been married a long time and mostly been happy.

If you have kids then that's even more reason to leave.

In staying you show them this is what relationships look like, that it's normal fir men to act this way and women to tolerate it. That fucks your kids up for life. They end up in abusive relationships themselves.

Show them we do not stay and be abused.
You'll probably find his 'moods' are not a feature when you leave anyway as they only ever existed to control you.

But if they do start with the kids, it's vital they have one safe home to retreat to with you. And one healthy parent who listens to them and is understating and agrees that dads behaviour is not OK.

Speaking as a someone who saw a parent stay with an abuser...I always felt she was choosing the abuser over me. It made me mad even as a kid that she just stayed. My gran focused much of her nastiness on me. So if your hubby did start on your kids, you staying does not make it better for them. it simply reinforces the idea that they might ve the problem. That maybe there's something wrong with them and that's why they are being treated this way (and mum must agree otherwise why would she stay with them and see them treat me this way). Or that there's something they can do or say to change him. Which is where you're at just now.

It also puts unfair responsibility on your kids who will see you sad from his treatment and may start trying to shield you, from him, as they age. Just as you try to do them from him.

Staying is the wrong choice. It continues the cycle of abuse for you and, for your kids.

Leave and show them we do not stay with abusers. Give them one safe home to escape to. Choose your children.

I do agree that the sudden change points to an affair though. Or looking for one (eg: tinder on his phone).

@Theothername @Ethylred an affair is not something I worry about (maybe I should). I found a thing he wrote anonymously for a newspaper (which was published) a few years ago where he describes his total devotion to me sexually. He doesn’t know I know about this, but it gives me reassurance. I think it’s the stark difference between that husband who idolises me, and the moody one who has as little to do with me as possible because of some minor slight that makes it hurt so much.

He does get really stressed out about the kids- one is fine at home but plays up in school and is not doing as well as they could. The other is great at school but really hard work at home. He does lots of practical things to help them, but also loses his temper- to be clear, he is never violent or even threatening, but it isn’t nice. He hates it when I’m ‘being nice’ to them when he is cross, but I never contradict him to them, but I try to find a way to work things out for everyone. I feel like I’m always the peacemaker, but I get unhappy too.

I should add, I think he is so focused on the kids getting a perfect diet, fulfilling their potential at school etc. because he own parents were self obsessed and did nothing for him. But being normal teenagers they have no understanding how much he does for them so don’t appreciate it- I’m sure we all find this tough!

It's always the ones who proclaim 'I would never cheat!' the loudest that, well, do.

This article would further back up the idea that he has to make you the bad guy in order to justify his cheating.

The article would worry me more, not less.

It sounds very 'I'm a nice guy, honest'.

@Pinkbonbon he has no idea I know about the article. When I found it I figured no one knows it’s us, and he clearly wanted it to be a secret so why would I spoil that for him. I’ve never mentioned it

Catalogue

It sounds extreme but it is easy to forget what was said and when. When he does this make a brief note of date, time and what was said/done to trigger it. You will be able to see if a pattern is emerging or at the very least ‘remind’ him when he claims to not know what he is talking about.

He will try to gaslight you if you tell him you made a note but if you choose to share that information with him you could say that you wanted to remind both of you what caused this behaviour as he has ‘trouble remembering’ (🙄) and can work together to finding if there is something he needs help with to deal with his emotions.

I don’t think this will be successful as he won’t admit he has anger/emotional issues, but for your own sanity it might be worth thinking about. You might decide to share this with a therapist who could help you through it without him to begin with.

Good luck x

Yes but it sounds very 'I'm a very loyal person and a good guy' brag to other people (the readers). Someone that has a big ego and wants praise for loyalty (that duh, he's SUPPOSED to have, because he's married!).

Or trying to convince himself he'd never cheat.

Of course I haven't read the article so I've no idea. But I'm not talking about him writing it to fool you or anything. Merely that he felt the need to be like 'oh I never cheat' so vocally. When really, that should be a given.

The article means, at the very least, the idea of cheating is on his mind.

The issue with the children rings bells with me too. When my dad cheated and ultimately left (not to be with the OW, he dumped her too) he was clearly leaving the family unit - wife and children equally. He just want to go off and live his own life unencumbered.