Difficult situation with daughter and grandparent

[Hopingforadvice79]

Sorry, I probably won't give too many details as a little worried about outing myself - it's an unusual (and probably recognisable) situation.

My eldest child is with their grandparent due to me getting ill (mental health crisis - quite severe) eight years ago.
It had been a long time coming and was my rock bottom. I've been in a very good, healthy and stable place since then, two younger children, have got married etc.

I'm trying my very hardest, everything I can think of to help, support and be there for my daughter, but she's not very interested and just gets in touch for money, which is probably normal for her age! (15), but also because she feels I let her down? And the trust went?
I never left but there was a period of 2 to 3 weeks eight years ago when I was in hospital, almost died, and generally was a mess. She wasn't allowed to come home right then when I was at my most ill, but that was only temporary. But in her mind, I did let her down/leave her and that's what's important. Her grandparent stepped in to help, and what was temporary turned into permanent - she hasn't come back in the following years.

I'm grateful for grandparents help of course, for looking after her and providing stability in a very unsettling time for her. but I worry about the distance between me and my daughter emotionally, and that I haven't been able to repair some of the relationship. I'm honestly trying my best to.

Does anyone have any advice how to handle this? My family in general treat me like the black sheep because I've always been difficult, a let down - I proved them all right by letting my daughter down. I don't really care what they think as it washes over me now, but I care very much about my daughter and want to do right by her, but I find myself either giving in to her and spending lots of money on her (which I don't have!) or if I don't, she'll be upset and I won't get to see her, then I get painted as the bad guy by the family (again), bad mother, manipulative, difficult etc.
I wish I could turn back the clock and be a better person and mum, but I can't.

You can’t undo the past but you can make different choices for the future.

Your daughter experienced something very traumatic when she was 7 years old. She was likely aware that you were very ill, perhaps even witnessed behaviours from you prior to your hospital admission that she found frightening/upsetting/confusing. It may have only been a few weeks in hospital but likely there was a long time prior where your health was deteriorating and many months afterwards while you recovered. Time moves much slower to children so what to you as an adult was a short period to a 7 year old would have felt like an eternity.

Her grandparents were her safety net at the most difficult time in her life and her continuing to live with them after you recovered meant that you never had an opportunity to prove to her she could put her trust in you again. You then went on to have another family which to your daughter most likely felt like she was being replaced, further widening the emotional gap between you. It also sounds like she has/is potentially hearing negative reinforcement about you from her grandparents, further cementing her belief that you are not a safe person for her to trust.

At 15 she is at an emotionally difficult age anyway and many parents find their children pull away from them at this age but you have the added disadvantage of not having a secure relationship with her to begin with.

Unfortunately all of this has led to the breakdown of your relationship with your daughter. By keeping you at arms length she is subconsciously protecting herself from being hurt further. She likely has very mixed feelings towards you that she may not be able to identify but probably include a huge amount of anger, frustration, abandonment, sadness, confusion, loss and rejection. All you can do is reassure her that you love her, that you aren’t going anywhere, that you are sorry for the way things happened but your health was not something you could control. Offer to answer any questions she might have and remind her that she is still part of your family. Perhaps write it in a letter so you can make sure to word it right and give her the time to process in her own. Regularly invite her to your home, even if she keeps saying no, make sure she knows she is always welcome. Ensure she is included in family occasions and encourage a relationship with her siblings.

Things may not improve but may be one day they will, perhaps when she is a little older. Ultimately it sounds like she could really benefit from some counselling/therapy to help her process her emotions so she is more able to get to a point where she wants to build a better relationship with you.

As for the money requests this is up to you - you either comply to keep contact and maintain civil relationships with everyone or you stand your ground and accept that this may cause further distancing. You can’t buy someone’s love or affection but teenagers are fickle!

Thanks NZDreamig - it's incredibly helpful to have another independent perspective. So much of what you mentioned is accurate. I think that's why she does keep me at arms length, to avoid getting hurt, and all her mixed emotions about what happened and the aftermath make so much sense.
I include her in everything - I'd love her to be here more (I always ask but it's usually a no), but I'm also conscious of not putting too much pressure on her as ultimately I want her to be happy.

I wish I could do something about the negative reinforcement she's receiving about me from wider family as -never mind me- it doesn't help her long term to only feel like she can trust them and no one else. But naturally I understand why she might feel like that given everything she went through which was very traumatic.

Just to say I've said sorry to her for everything, I tell her I love her at lot and also tell her I'm not going anywhere. But a letter might be a good idea

Also, sorry I'm waffling now! Just to say - we do have some lovely moments together. Chats on car journeys when she opens up about schools, chats on FaceTime about once a week. I help her with her little creative business she's starting.
whats hard is that every time we start to get close I feel like the grandparents almost draw her back to them? But it could just be her emotions pulling her back? I don't know. Sorry, I don't mean that to sound victimy

Can I ask why your daughter didn’t return to live with you once you were out of hospital? Even if you needed the first few months to recover and get settled, there must have been times where it would have been natural for her to return, particularly once you met a new partner and started a new family.

Also, where is her dad in all this? My mum was in hospital for a while when I was a baby and my sister was 6, and we stayed at home with our grandmother coming to look after us as dad was working. I don’t remember it, of course, but my sister does and has spoken about how upsetting it was despite being at home and still having that comfort and routine.

Thanks for your reply Ellie.

I don't know is the answer. I've been 'well' for eight years, but I've left it down to my daughter to choose essentially, and she chose to stay there (grandparent always says she's closer to them/loves them more/ trusts them more etc). It's hard because I'm already labelled as difficult, so if I push too much with her I'm supporting that narrative. Also, importantly, I want her to be where she wants to be if that makes sense. As much as I love her and I miss her, and want her here, it's not about how I feel. But you're right, there have been many times it would have been natural for her to return.
her Dad lives a few hours away and she has only a little contact with him.

Really sorry to hear about your experience when your mum was ill when you were little, it sounds like it had a big impact on your sister, who was about the same age my daughter was.

She has experienced childhood trauma and she had had neither of her parents actually parenting her. And she is 15 and facing challenges of her own. Of course this is going to be a difficult relationship.

do you pay maintenance directly to your parents on top of what you give her when she asks? Is that what is difficult to afford, the spending money on top of child maintenance?

Have you had an honest chat with her about the whys? Not necessarily every single gritty detail, but what your illness was, how it affected you, what happened etc.

I'd also explain what you said here , about wanting her to be happy and stay where she wanted, but now you see that it was wrong, that you were the parent and shouldn't have put that decision on her shoulders and fought harder for her.

Sometimes an honest ,heart felt mea culpa where you do take full responsibility for your actions is the first (and most important) step in rebuilding trust and bonds.

Huge mistake to let a 7yo choose where to live. The courts don't do that. You should have taken her back as soon as you were well enough - she'll have thought you didn't want her.

All you can do now is consistently be there for her with your time/presence rather than money, regardless of how she behaves.

Thanks for your replies.

I did fight, I fought hard again and again when I was at my lowest point.

As soon as I got ill they took me to court for special guardianship and won (it was early days and I hadn't long been ill), they present very well and I was a messy single parent that no one gave any credibility to or believed was a decent person. It is what it is and I take responsibility for where I was mentally and the impact at the time. I own that and the repercussions. It's about recognising what happened and then moving forward positively for my daughter I guess, validating how she feels and helping her.

Sorry if seemed misleading when I said about her choosing where to stay in the aftermath. I meant I haven't fought to get it revoked because I felt I would lose because of where she wants to be and she would say she wants to stay there.

I hadn't wanted to give to give too many details because of 'outing' myself, but it doesn't really matter!

Why did you never bring her home? You don’t give your child to someone to look after for a temporary hospital stay, and then never collect them! She’s been completely rejected in her eyes, I don’t get why it was other than ‘the second I’m well then I’m coming back for you’. You’ve passively abandoned her for no good reason other than she’s a small child and felt more comfortable with the people who made her feel more loved. As her mum that should have come from you. You’ve reinforced that you didn’t love her enough by discarding her

My family in general treat me like the black sheep

I think this is incredibly important. I suspect that in the build up to your daughter living with her grandparents it was also an unsettled time because I don’t believe you reached a crisis point overnight. Therefore, your daughter possibly doesn’t really remember a calm and settled time with you as it’s not just what happened when she was seven but the months or years beforehand.

Ever since, she has lived with her grandparents who openly regard you as not good enough and a failure. So your daughter will almost certainly believe that because it’s now so ingrained.

How receptive would you and your daughter be to shared counselling? I think you all need to speak to your family about how harmful their actions and words are to your relationship. Given that your daughter is now unlikely to ever live with you, they might be more open to supporting your relationship because they won’t feel that their guardianship will now be revoked.

Gopd luck. I hope it goes well. (Also, I think most 15 year olds do mainly want money and little else off their parents a lot of the time so that’s fairly normal).

Thank you TheSnowyOwl that's really helpful.

I shielded her and held it altogether (or so I thought..) from a lot until it all collapsed eight years ago, but in reality children are very perceptive and it would've have impacted her already I'm sure.

I think shared counselling would be really helpful. I don't think family would be receptive to me saying about their words and the impact however. In their option I am bad, I messed up, I hurt people (there is truth in that of course, I did hurt my daughter) and they are the saviours. I don't feel it would be worthwhile.

Thank you for wishing me luck, my daughter is lovely, amazing, doing brilliantly at school and I'm holding on the moments we do have together when we connect. I'm hoping we can build on that. And I'll do whatever she needs to support her emotionally with all this.

Were drugs an issue in your problems? I ask because drug issues and the behaviours and mental health issues they cause are often never really forgiven by parents who have had to pick up the pieces and take in grandchildren. I sometimes deal with teenagers- who have continuing issues- who live with grandparents because of a single parent who has had drug problems. The grandparents usually find it very difficult, even years later, to let go of their anger and resentment about the choices that were made and the chaos it caused in their lives. They are very protective of their grandchild and feel that they are the de facto parents.

I'm not saying you haven't fought, but in her eyes (very likely supported by the grandparent narrative) , you didn't. I think you should acknowledge that and take ownership for it and apologise. In a kid's eyes there's always something more you could've done if you wanted it hard enough. They don't see the legal system, the failings of it, the prejudice,the injustices , the struggles. You also can't badmouth her grandparents as they're her safe and stable place and she will be loyal to them. You're between a rock and hard place.

In her eyes , not only are you unpredictable (again, very likely this narrative was also supported by her grandparents), but you never came back for her (because they definitely won't tell her you fought in court), and then left her behind,moved on and replaced her with a brand new family, that you "suddenly" could cope with. She will blame you and blame herself. It will be easier for her to keep away the person who makes her feel that way.

Tell her and show her that she's loved, she's valued , you miss her and no matter what she is your daughter, she is your first born and she will always have a place with you and you will be there for her no matter what.

I wanted to ask that but decided not to. I was trying to imagine someone’s lifestyle where they may not want their kids back, or maybe kept putting it off, and all I could really think of is a drug or alcohol addict whose habit is made easier with them not being there. And also the addiction becomes more important than their kids

Thank you Arsehole, that's so helpful and I appreciate it.

that makes sense - she won't know how hard I fought and I was patently incapable of changing the situation at the time. Though it was my actions, my fault, I do own that.

Your last paragraph struck a real chord with me, I'm just on my way to pick her up now and I feel much more equipped to help her with what she actually needs, not what I think she needs.

Whats your daughters relationshi like with her 2 half siblings?

I ask as this must also have been hard watching you (in her eyes) "want" her siblings but not her?
Ie you didnt go for custody of her but did choose to procreate and have 2 more children

To previous poster - no drugs. I barely take paracetamol as I'm sensitive to everything.

I really appreciate all replies, sorry if I've not replied to all questions yet. This has really helped. I'm going to pick up my beautiful eldest daughter now. I can't wait to see her.

She loves her two half siblings, they clash sometimes like normal siblings, but are very close

Also, I should maybe have mentioned this earlier, but wasn't sure if it mattered? I'm ND (diagnosed in the last few years, since being ill)

I don't understand why the grandparents are getting a bashing on here. They took on OP's child, protected her, provided for her, gave her stability when the child's parents couldn't/wouldn't. That's a huge undertaking. I have grandchildren and can't imagine how tough it must be when you've done your child raising and are looking at an easier life in old age just to be thrown back into being 'parents' to a young child - along with the worry and stress of the situation with your actual child. I think they deserve some respect rather than comments such as this, which has no basis in fact...

In her eyes , not only are you unpredictable (again, very likely this narrative was also supported by her grandparents), but you never came back for her (because they definitely won't tell her you fought in court).

What would have happened to your daughter if your parents hadn't stepped up OP?

My DH is an older child who was brought up by his grandmother (for different but similarly traumatic reasons as your own) , and his Mum went in to have younger children.

He understands why he was ‘left’ with his grandmother. He loves and cares for his younger siblings. And his Mum. But underneath all that he also has deep unresolved issues. The fact that his Mum had ‘new’ children before getting him back is part of this. Never feels he is worthy of love, needs constant proof’ that he is loved (in truth, I think only having children who offered unconditional love sorted that), and in the past has engaged in self destructive and self sabotaging behaviours.

I am not saying this to bash or blame you, just to give a perspective that it took DH years to understand. it is good that you have developed a stable life.

But Emotions are complex and operate at different levels of our conscious and unconscious life.

It wasn’t your ‘fault’ that your MH collapsed , it happened, just as physical ill health can strike I wonder how much your ND is a factor and whether your family have any understanding of that, and whether you had any support.

Anyway, I think counselling would be good for your Dd, and if possible some sessions together. It would be good for her to understand her trauma, as she is the only one who can manage it, really, and understand that your love for her is not expressed in pocket money!

It is really good that you have lovely moments with your Dd, you are obviously doing an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.

You seem to think your daughters impression of you is from family members as opposed to your actions. Am I reading it right though, you didn't go back to court when you regained your health?