Who is to fault? Muslim lifestyle.

[Meryemg]

Hi I am a married mother of 3 european citizen i met my muslim husband in hşs home country ıver 20 years ago he has alway been a practising Muslim and i converted after 5 years with him (non strict practice) we have always continued a very european lifestyle but been religious councious also. Recently 6 7 months ago he joined sufism which is a pathway to become closer to god he promised at the time it was to help his mental state(slightly depressed) but he within 6 months it has brought many changes to our lifestyle he no longer will wear shorts he gets up not only for obligatory prayer but extra too and spends at least 1 hour on each prayer he is constantly using his prayer beads and read around 1 hour of the quran a day we no longer watch films or listen to music oral sex became a problem more recently he has said he no longer wants to visit the beach as to see others sinful areas is a sin he isnt controlling of me in anyway and has always been a good husband father but i have told him this radical lifestyle isn't for me and he says it doesn't affect me and him being more religiously conscious doesent affect me it to do with him and i am to blame for the breakdown that is happening in our marraige for me all this is too much I like to live balanced between religion and enjoying the world here his has became a journey soley focused on the next life please someone advise I am wrong here ?

Erm, anal is strictly prohibited. There's a difference of opinion on oral.

depends on school of thought. the shafi school permits anal but discourages it. hanafi school forbids anal sex.
I had to do some research on this as I produced some literature and had to speak to several scholars.
never come across there being an issue with oral, but will take your word for it re difference of opinion.

If he's deciding music is banned he isn't exploring Sufism any more but going down a more radical route.

I think the best thing you can do is stop asking that question, because when you're assigning blame, you're not focussed on the actual problem. Which is that you are now leading incompatible lifestyles.

This

YANBU He has introduced changes to your established marriage that affect you, without consulting you.

I'd be pretty annoyed if my partner got up regularly in the night and woke me up. The films, beach and sex would also be issues. He's limiting you and your family's enjoyment of life.

He'll never take your dcs to build sandcastles or walk on a beach. Film night is off the agenda. Presumably going to the cinema too. And I can't imagine a life without music. That's horrible. To be honest he doesn't sound much fun any more. And this is only 6 months in. He'll get more controlling over time.

He is free to choose his path, but must understand that you no longer want the same things in life, and that creates incompatibility. Are you independent in terms of a career? Can you plan to leave? I'd want to get my dcs out of there before he tries to limit their lives too.

I might be wrong but I don’t recognise the way he is acting as ‘Sufism’

He certainly is becoming more stricter in his interpretation of what being a Muslim means.
Id be worried he is becoming sucked into extremism tbh.

Do you know much about who he is in contact with? What does his family say about his behaviour?

I'm pretty sure Imam Shafi prohibited it also in his Mukhtasar al Muzani. I've always heard it is prohibited in all 4 schools of fiqh but I may be wrong.

There's some rulings regarding the getting filth in the mouth etc so conditions but also a difference of opinion with in Hanafi fiqh

I think there is a lot of misconceptions re what sufism is. sufism is practising Islam, sufis are those who focus on cleansing their inner selves and are on a journey to remove their focus from the material world to the spiritual world and their relationship with God. so they will pray more, meditate, recite the Quran and read their awrad (various prayers). they also take part in collective zikr/prayer and express their love for God through music, poetry and art

so anyone truly going down the path of sufism will become much more serious in their practice of Islam. but again what is commonly perceived as "strictly practising Islam " are the taliban etc. when that is absolutely not the case.

if any woman had posted that they no longer wanted to do x y z sexual activity for whatever reason, the support would be universal. he doesn't owe you sex of any kind.

The problem of course starts when oral is how many women orgasm and by saying NO to oral he is actually stopping from getting an orgasm during sex. (If the OP is in that case but as she mentions it, I’m going to assume it’s a big thing for her). I doubt that people would be ok for a woman to say, ‘well I don’t want to do x and y that will lead to orgasm/ejaculate/pleasure for you and you just have to accept it’.

Same with not watching films with her.
Yes he can spend his time however he wants. But he is also eliminating one way when couples are getting closer (wo words or sex). It’s often an intimate time, just cuddled together on the sofa. Again what disappears is intimacy. And for it to be replaced with something HE wants with no look as to the effect on the OP or on the couple.

@therealcookiemonster thats why I was asking how does his family see the changes. (I wasn’t feeling I could pass a judgement on that. I’m not sure anyone on here could do either tbh)

My own experience (as an outsider) of people who follow Sufism was of people who were practicing with a strong emphasis on spirituality. None of them were concentrating so much on ‘religious rules’ (for want of a better word) such as no music or no TV or no oral sex.

Now it might be that following his religion to the letter is the direction he wants to take (and yes wo him becoming an extremist). But I think it’s also ok for the OP to say she doesn’t want to live her life with no music, no cuddles on the sofa and no orgasm from oral sex.

The reality is that, often, when people become more religious, it’s also coming with some form of selfishness.
All their life is geared towards some religious goals, not towards their family anymore. Mental space occupied by praying and how many did I do, and how long did I study/pray/meditate today etc… at the detriment of all other life responsibilities.
They expect people to accept their new life rules and adjust their behaviour accordingly Wo ever having discussed the potential consequences of it.

I totally agree that no one here can really pass judgement as its so hard to get a true picture.
but the no TV, no music are not really religous rules pertaining to islam? Islam doesn't forbid any of those things. also music is integral to sufism. what could be the case is that he is spending more time in prayer and wants to remove distractions (which is very common in serious sufis) but he shouldn't be enforcing that on his family (I am unclear if he is doing that)

to be sufi, one has to establish basic elements of the faith first. it's like trying to run before walking. so students are encouraged to develop consistency in their religious practice before advancing onto the spiritual development.

have to disagree with you re religiosity. if someone is truly religous, no matter their faith - it must stem from a true understanding of God and therefore an appreciation of our responsibilities to God's Creation, with a focus on fulfilling our duty to our families. Islam puts a massive focus on husbands fulfilling their duties to their wife and children (and vice versa). so if anyone is using religion as an excuse for renaging on their duties, they have massively missed the point. sufism specifically is about erasure of the self and destruction of the ego. if anyone on that journey becomes selfish in their religous practice, they have lost their way.

agree with you that OP is fully within her rights to leave given that her values/expectations may no longer align with her husband's. and they have to work out between them how they can either compromise or call it a day.

Let's not forget that OP isn't the one changing the goalposts here, she's not the one checking out of family life. Not sure why she's being called controlling, he's the one telling her that things are changing, most of which aren't due to religion

@therealcookiemonster oh I totally agree that if anyone is using religion as an excuse for reneging on their duties, they have massively missed the point!!

My circle is more along the lines of Buddhism/meditation/Taoism, but I have seen that happening so many times. Esp with men.

yep, sadly there are many people like that around. humans are always looking for excuses to be selfish.

some time ago there was a thread posted by a dad whose wife was having a midlife crisis dressed up as a spiritual awakening which she was using as an excuse to have an affair (no joke) but also wanted to stay in the marriage

let's hope for OP's sake that her husband is not in this category.

You may find the Muslim Woman’s Network helpline helpful. They understand the issues Muslim woman in families face. Admittedly they do get a lot of calls around DV issues but they can also signpost for issues outside of their remit.
It can be a shock to find your husband has taken on a deeper faith commitment. It can take a bloke a while to find the work, prayer and family balance that works for everyone. If MH might be muddled in the mix it may be worth seeking support from an iman you like and respect as well as looking at the charity MIND for resources for what friends and family can do that could help. There is a difference between a faith the deepens from love of God and running away from the world you struggle to cope with.

TBH when mine announced he wanted to become a priest it was awful. I had a very shrewd idea of the impact that would have and the timing of it was horrible for me as both my parents had just died. I could have screamed and more. It is okay to say such and such is making you unhappy and such and such makes you feel loved and supported as a wife. In honesty it took time, a heck of a lot of time, and a willingness on both our parts to keep communicating, set agreed boundaries for what was okay and what was not. It is hard work but in our case it was worth the effort.

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/

Can you list the practical changes which are a problem for you, and try to find an acceptable compromise together? E.g. "you are spending less time with the family in the evenings" - compromise: 7-9pm is dedicated family time, he can read the Quran afterwards. "I miss watching films together" - compromise: you watch U-12 films together, and 15-18s without him.

He's allowed to change his relationship with his faith, but if it changes his relationship with you then you also get a say!

He's allowed to change his relationship with his faith, but if it changes his relationship with you then you also get a say!

I agree there.

The problem is that he already has said that if she has a problem with it, it’s all her fault.
and i am to blame for the breakdown that is happening in our marriage (from OP)

He isn’t taking responsibility for the impact on his marriage and family of the deepening of his faith.
Actually he is already putting the blame if any issues on the OP’s feet.
That, in itself, is an issue.
But it also shuts down any possible ‘negotiations’ and compromises.

Has his mild depression been relieved with this shift in his religion? Perhaps that's where you should focus. Why was he depressed. Is he unhappy in his marriage?. Is this religious shift a way of causing disruption to your marriage. Just a thought.

Doesn’t sound like Sufism to me, more like he’s getting closer to Deobandi Islam.

Yes ge hasent stopped me doing as I like but obviously won't be sat on a room were there's nudity etc on the tv and as most shows now have nudity etc its difficult to watch anything as a family like we used too

Oral sex isn't specifically mentioned as helal or haram like anal is total haram. But many scholars and laws in islam are against it as the mouth which is clean and pure for reading quran etc shouldn't be used in unhygienic manners so it's classed as frowned upon something allah would like so as he wants ro become more conscious of everything it includes oral sex for him now

I totally understand were you are coming from and have asked myself many times is it me. And he is very welcome ofcourse to change and decide he wants to live a certain way I respect that always have as he has always been more religious councious than most. But for 20 plus years this wasent our married life ofcourse I van live without oral etc but I feel like I have lost him as the person I choose to marry I never made a choice to marry a slightly extreme Muslim I made the choice to marry a very balanced Muslim who because of the peace I felt helped me to find my pathway to. He doesent just prayer the 5 prayers and sunnah he does all the recommended he is assigned 7000 zikir per day and this will increase every 4 months up to 120.000 that is the sufi part he comes to bed for one hour then gets up and comes back to bed at around 5 am. Days out at the beach and our holidays were important for me I have many special memories and we will no longer make those maybe I am mourning the loss of these things but I no longer feel content and if I am to blame or too controlling then we will have to accept that and possibly break our family apart which isn't easy either as I would need to return to my European country and start again wither way one of us would loose the children

I do empathise with your situation with you feeling like you have lost your husband.

sounds like he is going through a very significant process of transformation. my experience with the longer zikrs is that they are usually shortlived. some sufis do devote themselves very deeply to worship but this should not be at the expense of them fulfilling their duties. do you feel he is not fulfilling your rights as a wife? do you feel you understand the process he is undergoing?

a true sufi shaykh would always instil balance in their students. there is no Islam without balance and certainly no spirituality without balance in both external and inner lives. remember, Allah SWT tells us islam is the middle path. and making your wife ir husband happy is also worship.

I have been on this path for almost two decades now. certainly at the beginning people around me, especially my family found the changes in me difficult to understand. it took me time to find the balance. I am not married, so its easier. if you want to discuss specifics, please feel free to dm me.

We just fast forward. I have no interest in seeing simulated sex or naked actresses/actors. It’s rare that it impacts the plot to just skip.

I cant help but feel rather than being his obstical as he says he's never felt this happy & I either accept this or walk away pretty much the right thing to do is to walk away now and let him find what he is looking for in life he is going to need a wife that understands and also has the same kind of devotion anyway is my thoughts I can't be that person allah blessed me with belief elhamdülillah but not the strengh to live as our holy prophet's may have in all aspects of life its not an easy time to tackle world and religion we are living.