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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friend's life has fallen into chaos. To help out or not?

69 replies

tellmmeyourstory · 04/06/2024 16:32

I met K 17 years ago, when we worked together in a short-lived, crazy business venture run by a bonkers owner. We were on the same wavelength and managed to have a lot of fun before it folded a few years later. We stayed in touch. We were both professionals in our field, both earning reasonably well and she was on top of things. She was married with a little boy, I was single. She and her husband had a nice flat in Notting Hill. When we all lived in London we'd meet up every few weeks and do cultural things. Then they moved for his work and later they divorced and had career changes. We'd talk every month, visit a couple of times a year. Things were different and sometimes difficult for her, but everything sounded pretty much okay. She owned her own home, had decent work, seemed to be doing well.

Three years ago I moved to within 40 miles of where she lives and we caught up properly. These days she lives with a local musician who plays a couple of gigs in a good month in the local pubs. He occasionally earns some cash in hand with a bit of gardening or DIY but apart from that he's a bit of a waste of space. He's a gentle bloke but it didn't take long to work out that she was working two jobs in order to pay their bills. They lived in a nice house in a nice area of town: I assumed they owned it.

They seemed to practically live in the pub. It was a weird situation where she'd grumble about never having any money, then insist we take a taxi to the pub for supper when we could have had beans on toast at home. I even used to offer to take something for supper when I visited in order to save her money. I used to pick up the tab when I visited as a way of showing solidarity but it started to get so expensive that these days I tend to visit her at weekends and go home when pub time beckons.

It all got even weirder when it became clear that she was earning 30% more than me (in higher management and also with a couple of side-hustles) while also apparently being penniless. Then last year she was offered a redundancy package and took it. Somewhere around £40k. Then they were forced to move from the house they were renting (I hadn't realised) and suddenly she had a crowdfunder going, looking for £4k to help them with a deposit and moving costs. I donated £50. The place they've moved into is in a rough area and is in very poor condition.

I tried talking to her, asking if they had money worries and she just laughed and said 'Who doesn't?' I've tried gently asking what's going on but got nowhere. I'm sure she's embarrassed about how this has ended up.

After Christmas she asked me if I'd lend her £1000 to help her son out with his bills. I did and she paid it back within the month, as she said she would. She's not currently working. She's 55 next year and is planning to take her private pension then and see if she can get by without working. Her choice, but I do miss the old K who was full of curiosity and ideas and possibilities. This K just seems to have settled for rock bottom.

I've run through all the possibilities I can think of. I don't think she's an alcoholic: I've known alcoholics and I don't think she is. I've seen or heard nothing that would indicate either of them are gambling. I'm sure they smoke the occasional joint, though never when I've been around. I don't think they're doing anything heavier than that. I just get the impression that money goes through her hands like water. No evidence of mental health issues. It's all meals out, taxis, takeaways and piles of clothes bought online.

Now she's messaged me to say she's damaged the wheel and drive shaft of her car by driving into a pothole. It's going to cost £2,400 to sort out and she's suing the council to get them to pay — but in the meantime she needs to get it fixed and she doesn't have any money. Could I help?

I just don't know what to do. Any ideas about what could be going on with her?

OP posts:
1stTimeMummy2021 · 04/06/2024 21:28

@tellmmeyourstory I have a family member like this, they'd pay £5 for a taxi home from the train station rather than walk the 10 minute journey home. It's all designer this, why go to a hairdresser who charges £20 when you can go to one who charges £200, that one has to be loads better right (I'm talking for a standard barber cut). Don't get dragged into it. She wants to live a lifestyle she can't afford, don't help fund the craziness.

Ethylred · 04/06/2024 21:40

OP, maybe she was always like this and the only thing that has changed is that she can no longer hide it under a veneer of being young, beautiful and glamorous.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 05/06/2024 11:02

You can only lend her it if you don't mind never getting it back and I'd be saying gently "this is the second time, with respect Trisha, what's going on? Im worried for you"

LalaICantHear · 05/06/2024 11:18

Ethylred · 04/06/2024 21:40

OP, maybe she was always like this and the only thing that has changed is that she can no longer hide it under a veneer of being young, beautiful and glamorous.

Agree with this - I wonder if she's not hugely financially literate and never has been? Not that unusual.

Many people are genuinely like this - when they're taking home a decent monthly wage it covers the spends, so don't really think too much about saving or budgeting.

Especially if their job takes a lot of headspace, they're very used to their next payday covering a big spend month.

Nothing to do with job title or professional status or income level.

Money out equals (or exceeds) money in, and then there's nothing left (or debt).

It's quite easy to just gradually overspend or not have savings without anything dramatic or abusive happening or obviously paying for first class flights or diamond rings!

Obviously more income is good, but I know people doing part-time min wage jobs who save and budget well, and doctors who are always in their overdraft!

Maybe nudge her towards sites like moneysavingexpert.com rather than lend her money.

But you can't throw yourself under a bus for her - she has to have a point of crisis where she makes the decision herself.

Nomdaplums · 05/06/2024 11:34

Could be a very mysterious or very simple answer to your friend's predicament - they are either hiding some expensive vice or they are just bad with money.

If friends and family stop bailing her out, it might force her to become better with money. Partner sounds like he could have at the very least a steady part time job to help with bills - but I don't know how funding him could be that expensive - unless he is buying lots of expensive musical equipment?

I'd give a wide berth to be honest.

Harvestfestivalknickers · 05/06/2024 11:48

CHOICES. Choices have consequences. She has chosen to stay with work shy partner. She has chosen to retire early. Consequently they have no money. Not your problem. Your choices have led you to have more money and a nicer home.

Snappers3 · 05/06/2024 11:50

bonzaitree · 04/06/2024 20:15

All you can do is offer to help her go through her finances.

If she says « no » (which is likely) you literally cannot do anything more than that. So you need to prepare to let this issue go.

At the end of the day it’s her life. It’s not your problem to solve (unless she lets you).

This.
Loaning money spoils friendships when it is a regular thing.
You have done more than enough
You have your own financial concerns and she certainly will not be there for you.
I think she knows you are soft.
She should have gone to her ex for money for her son.
Funny how some people are very selective about who they will try and tap for money!!

mindutopia · 05/06/2024 12:06

It just sounds like they are living beyond their means. Dh and I earn well above average, but I'd never take a taxi anywhere (I'd walk or not go) and we might have 1 meal out a month. That said, she could very well have substance abuse or addiction (gambling/shopping) issues you aren't aware of. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I can guarantee you that absolutely no one in my life, except dh, had any idea how much I was drinking. I wasn't going out to the pub. I wasn't crashing my car or falling over when we had friends/family around. I was overspending on booze though. Given what you say, it wouldn't surprise me at all if she is drinking too much or using a bit of coke (it's expensive!). But whatever it is, she's spending more than she should and has no money.

Caterina99 · 05/06/2024 12:06

I think it’s completely reasonable to say no I’m sorry I don’t have 2k to lend you (insert info about your work issues). Her reaction will presumably tell you a lot

Id tell her you’re worried about her, and does she want your help with looking at her finances or a listening ear for her woes? But either way you don’t want to fall out and you won’t be giving her any money.

Lindy2 · 05/06/2024 12:08

You are not responsible for your friend's poor financial decisions.

She had other choices available to those that she took.

You can already see that the requests for money increase in value each time she asks. I think you're going to have to say no. She might back off from the friendship. If she does you'll know you were just a source of funds for her rather than an actual friend.

tribpot · 05/06/2024 12:23

Is she one of these people who mirrors the personality of the person she's with? She was dynamic and go-getting when she was married to a dynamic, go-getting person. She's now a feckless sponger because she's with a feckless sponger.

That's obvs a big simplification, but as you're struggling to work out why/how she's changed so much, I thought it was worth considering.

I also wouldn't rule out alcohol or drugs. You say She's bright and awake early in the morning (messages early in the day) but you're not hearing from her every day, I assume? She's practically living in the pub and you're actively avoiding spending time with her when it's pub time, that sounds concerning.

Fairyflaps · 05/06/2024 15:04

It does sound like a couple of friends of mine with alcohol problems, who also worked in high-powered professional roles. The work kept them at a functional level because it gave their lives structure and restricted the amount of the day they could spend drinking. And while they were earning well, this was enough to cover the amount of money they ran through while drinking. This could be poor financial decisions made while drunk, including extreme generosity, the costs of repeatedly losing and replacing phones, keys etc. Spending every evening in the pub drinking is not cheap. In your friend's case the poor financial decisions probably include her choice of partner.

Based on my experience, if it is alcoholism or any other addiction, she will go to great lengths to conceal it from you and other people. And there is nothing you can do about it until she acknowledges there is a problem and decides to help herself.

If my suspicions are correct, I would be very concerned about her plans to retire next year. Without the structure of work, and the income it provides, she has the potential to hit rock bottom pretty fast. But this is not your problem (though it is very hard to watch a friend slowly kill themselves) or something you can do anything about.

tellmmeyourstory · 05/06/2024 17:45

Thanks for your ongoing feeedback. I've explained to K that because of my own uncertain employment situation I'm not in a position to lend her any money and she's said she knows it was a long shot. I've mentioned claiming on her insurance and she says that she might give that a go.

There's something hopeless about her. I sometimes wonder when we're talking whether I make her feel worse about her current circumstances. When we met, she was living a good life in a trendy part of London and everything seemed golden. Now she's living in a really grim house in an area where no one would live if they have a choice. I think possibly I remind her of a period when life was better, and perhaps that's difficult for her.

OP posts:
category12 · 05/06/2024 17:55

That seems weird to me - surely if your car gets damaged, first port of call would be insurance.

If you get refused, you then you might start panicking and asking for help from family or friends.

It just doesn't sit right with me.

Pumpkinpie1 · 05/06/2024 18:29

Only lend money you can afford to lose .

She is not the person you knew. She’s changed .
Stop expecting her to morph back into the person you knew, that person is long gone.

If you want to maintain a relationship with the person she now is that’s fine. But don’t be her piggy bank . She can find her own lifestyle

tribpot · 05/06/2024 18:35

Agreed, @category12 . The two reasons I can think of not to claim on insurance are:

  1. It would make the premium unaffordable next year
  2. She hasn't got insurance.

Neither of which speaks to a robust plan to repay OP.

Isitsummer2024 · 05/06/2024 18:37

If she’s that broke and chaotic is it possible she doesn’t even have car insurance?

SheepAndSword · 05/06/2024 19:40

Sounds like she has lost her joie de vivre and is downcast and making bad decisions.

You have been a good friend to her, don't lend her any more money you can't afford to disappear. Boyfriend doesn't come across well.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 05/06/2024 21:24

Oh dear poor woman. It has to be very hard to have lost the carefree years.

But you've made the right decision. You can be a good friend in other ways.

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