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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Will this sound bitchy? Prudish?

66 replies

MrsSnape · 04/04/2008 22:24

I have posted before about problems I am having with a bloke a my karate class.

For a quick re-cap - he hits me harder than he should, hits me in "personal" places when he should be nowhere near there and comes out with odd comments such as "ok, I'll be your rapist..." during partner work and "I tell myself to be cool around you but I can never manage it" last week he asked me for my phone number so that we can "practice karate" at weekends . I'm 27, he's nearly 50.

Anyway you all advised me last time to simply tell sensei about my concerns but I decided to just 'let it go' and hope he discontinues.

Anyway, tonight was horrendous. we had to do this "attack/defend" sequence...I was the attacker. It was a fast paced exercise designed for stamina etc and I had to keep punching him and he had to keep blocking...everyone else was doing it silently but he just started going mental shouting "come on, hit me...hurt me...hit me...come on...come on..." but he seemed to be getting REALLY turned on by it, it was horrible. In the end I just said I had headache and backed right off but I had to take part in the 2nd exercise and he was the same then "come on, oh yeah...come on..." and then he said "I'm getting far too much of a kick out of this...hit me, go on..." and he was getting really excited and coming really close to me and everything. It was starting to make me feel a bit sick and I've decided I cannot let this continue, this is worse than the physical stuff from before.

I do NOT want to quit karate, it means alot to me. How do I approach sensei? what do I say without sounding like a trouble causer? am I being a prude and making something out of nothing. He's really spoiling it for me. None of the other blokes there act like this.

OP posts:

LynetteScavo · 04/04/2008 22:56

Wow, Carmenere really knows how to kick ass!

ravenAK · 04/04/2008 22:56

Ugh. What everyone else has said, really!

Totally inappropriate. Definitely talk to sensai & ask for his support.

Carmenere · 04/04/2008 22:57

Lynette - I have kicked the arses of a man or two the past..............

Original poster

MrsSnape · 04/04/2008 22:58

At the time I said we were ok (we were, it was just the little things back then), I said he was a bit heavy handed but I'd put that down to the fact that he was used to full contact fighting, not semi like at our club.

I havn't told him about the more wierd stuff, I will see him away from karate next week so I hope to mention it then if I can get him alone for a few minutes. I think he does have an idea that something is not right, just in his mannerisms, its hard to explain.

Lately he's started to hover around sensei's daughter (14) and told his wife that he thought she was his daughter and not his wife. If she's told him about these conversations (like she probably has) that maybe playing on his mind a bit already.

OP posts:

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/04/2008 23:02

Am loving CArmeneres approach actually......

Although it could risk spurring him on, weirdy that he seems to be.

bubblepop · 04/04/2008 23:12

this guy sounds like someone ive met before as a work colleague..a complete creep and a weirdo. the more you cringe and keep quiet, the more power he feels and he just keeps on doing it.

I confronted this person in my life, very loudly in front of other people,and I Told him to back off in no uncertain terms. It was'nt easy as he was my manager at the time, i was about 21yr old and he was about 50ish. It worked though, left me alone after that...just moved on to the next poor victim.

If i were you, i would tell the sensei you refuse to partner up with him again..if he does'nt like it then you will take your custom elsewhere, there will be other karate groups. your not trapped in this situation,so move yourself out of it. good luck

windygalestoday · 04/04/2008 23:21

im with carmenere,he sounds a right nutter

Candlewax · 04/04/2008 23:28

I think we all need to bow down to Carmenere! Wow! I am most impressed and influenced. I shall kick more ass because of you!

horsish · 05/04/2008 00:57

If he makes you feel uneasy you should not have to spar with him.
Tell the sensai.
This will not be the first or last time this has happened at a karate class.

A friend of mine suffered sexual abuse as a teenager at th hands of her karate teachers - a married couple.

It was her first sexual experience - being coerced into a threesome and scarred her for a long time.

I know of two others who were vicims of inappropriate behaviour in martial arts classes.

Speak up and stop this man now.

luvaduck · 05/04/2008 01:06

you poor thing - don't know what a sensei is but agree with above

please make sure this bloke doesn't know where you live etc...

what a sad liitle man. bet he has a small penis.

warthog · 05/04/2008 10:04

come on mrs. snape - show some balls and tell the sensei what's going on!

Original poster

MrsSnape · 05/04/2008 10:08

Thanks for the advice, I know I'm going to have to say something. Thing is he does exercise classes with sensei too so he's probably more friendly with him than I am.

I just don't want him to spoil the whole thing, its taken me years to gain the confidence to go back to karate and everything was fine until this started.

He kept saying last night "hit me hard..." and I actually said to him "no, we're not supposed to be hitting full force in this class, its about control" and so he just brushed it off saying "oh I don't care about all that, I won't hit you but I want you to really hit me..."

Why can't he just be normal like the other blokes there?

The whole thing is really pissing me off, I always end up being made to feel like shit by men no matter where I go or what I do.

I'm just worried that if I bring it up to sensei it causes bad feeling in the class which would be unfair to DS1 as he is doing really well there.

OP posts:

TheArmadillo · 05/04/2008 10:14

He is not normal.

You have done nothing wrong.

Tell your sensei person, you have nothing to be embarassed about. Any normal person would be shocked adn appalled by this.

You are not the problem - it's the wierdo.

No one is going ot blame you for this or think you are overreacting.

tigermoth · 05/04/2008 10:17

I wonder if this is the first time this creep has played dirty around women at the club? It's possible your sensei already suspects what he's like and has had complaints in the past. Or perhaps your sensei acutally wants you to complain to give him the final excuse to ask this guy to leave. I cannot believe the sensei is oblivious to all this.

batters · 05/04/2008 10:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alexa808 · 05/04/2008 11:40

Dear MrsSnape,

I did Shotokan Karate for 6 1/2 years and kick boxing for 6 months and have encountered the same problem that you have. One of the guys we frequently saw at tournaments would wisper stuff in Portuguese to me (I speak French n Spanish and could piece it together) about wanting to see how I looked under my suit and seeing me in the changing rooms after the fights and how I'd never had a real man. Really offensive stuff and he always pulled and pushed way too hard and also slapped me in the triangle of the face which is off-limits in semi-contact. In the beginning my sensei said I should ignore him until he slapped me, then he took the issue up with him and his sensei about inappropriate behaviour and mentioned the sexual harrasment. I was mortified and sure as hell some people said I was over-imagining. I was never paired with this guy again and after a skiing accident my knee wouldn't allow me to do Karate and I left.

I agree with madamez and others, this guy is a menace and hates women. He enjoys abusing and tormenting you. He probably has rape fantasies about you and you never know what could happen if something snapped. I'm saying: take this serious and keep a diary of when he does/did what and if it leaves bruises, photograph it. Go to your sensei or speak to anotyher female in your class. Is he only like this with you? Has anyone else ever been subjected to this?

I cannot understand why you have to be paired with him only, despite the same weight, etc. I was paired with different types and weights as you can get lanky people of the same weight as you which are way taller, etc. Also, IMO, in a defense situation, your 'attacker' will not single you out because you're the same fighting class as him/her. Get a diary together, document it, speak to other team members and then, wit the evidence, go to your sensei. Even if they are close, he has to hear you out and be fair. If he's good mates with the guy he can tell him to back off and behave professionally.

Karate is all about discipline and well measured, fully controlled movements . It's about stopping an inch from the nose of your partner, not how hard you can punch him in the solar plexus. If that's not what he's about, then he should leave.

Original poster

MrsSnape · 05/04/2008 12:23

Apparantly he used to do full contact karate before he joined ours (I can't remember the name of the style he practised) but he was there 18 months without ever been graded. Makes me wonder...even with strict instructors you normally get to grade at least once in your first year.

Alexa808, I am going to keep a diary, thanks for the suggestion. I also agree completely with the controlled movements, this is what I try to tell him but he says he has trouble with this as his last club was full contact...point is even if he has trouble with control, this doesn't explain why he wants me to hit HIM full force...

And I also agree about the rape fantasies, that is how it is starting to look. I just hope to god Sensei doesnt give him my phone number if he asks him for it disguised as "enthusiasm about training".

OP posts:

Katisha · 05/04/2008 12:39

If that is at all possibility (giving out your phone number) then you MUST talk to Sensei asap. Seriously. Today really.

madamez · 05/04/2008 12:40

MrsSnape, stop worrying about your sensei's feelings. If your sensei is too thick to pick up on the utterly unacceptable behaviour of this obnoxious dangerous man then your sensei is not doing his job properly. You must tell the sensei that you don't want this man given your phone number, that this man is sexually harassing you and you want no contact with him outside class and minimal contact with him during it.
It sounds very much as though the sensei is aware that the man is behaving in an inappropriate manner and is just waiting to get enough evidence to expel him from the group. So please don't hold back, make your complaint as soon as you can.

krang · 05/04/2008 13:03

ABSOLUTELY tell your sensei.

If he has ANY knowledge or respect for the martial arts he should put a stop to this RIGHT NOW.

I used to do jeet kune do with some of top people in the country and if there was any suggestion of this kind of thing they would be on the person in a SECOND. It is disgusting that you are being made to feel like this. It is not what martial arts are about and people like him give them a bad name.

If he has trouble with non full contact, that is HIS problem and something HE should discuss with the sensei.

I would tell the bloke, extremely loudly, that I don't want to partner up with him any more and why. But I appreciate that not everyone feels that's the right route for them. Tell your sensei now, please...don't let this idiot spoil things for you.

CarGirl · 05/04/2008 14:35

Who's to say he's not partnered with some 14 year old in another class/club

Original poster

MrsSnape · 05/04/2008 15:09

Its awkward because before all this started I actually enjoyed having a regular partner who was an adult as before I was having to partner with 5 and 6 year olds and it was all starting to feel a bit pointless. Then he came along and I thought "great, a proper partner" and to make matters worse, I even suggested to sensei at the time that he be allowed to take the first grade when I took mine so that we remained the same grade (he hadn't really been there long enough to grade) and sensei thought it was a good idea. How stupid do I look now

I know he's away at competition all weekend (sensei) and the next time I'll see him is Monday for karate but this bloke is normally there before me. I'll see him seperataly on Tuesday.

Surely he wouldn't give out my phone number though? I really don't think he would, I reckon he'd just advise him to ask me for it...which thinking about it is maybe what has already happened and thats why he asked?

I just can't help thinking that I'm blowing it out of proportion or being paranoid. I was abused as a child and so tend to be ultra sensitive to these things

OP posts:

cyteen · 05/04/2008 15:18

You don't look stupid at all - you did those things before all this started. You're not a psychic, how were you supposed to know that this bloke would start acting like the worst kind of intimidatory space-invading creep?

You are right to be concerned and you have a right to have those concerns dealt with. Please don't ignore your instincts here, this guy is a sleaze.

Prufrock · 05/04/2008 15:19

You are definately not blowing this oout of proportion. The guy sounds perverted - it seems like he's getting off on the physical contact with you and that is not what martial arts is about.

MissPaulaYates · 05/04/2008 15:26

mrs snape - i dont think that you are being extra sensitive ( i know where you are coming from when you question this btw)

he sounds rank !!

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