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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sister Argument- advice

89 replies

sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 14:01

Looking for advice, however harsh, although would appreciate some less harsh advice too.

I am one of three siblings- me (age 43) brother (41) and sister (38). Brother and I very similar; forthright, academically capable and have done well, work in “professional jobs” but deeply anxious and neurotic. Sister was diagnosed with autism in the 90s when she was about four and has always had problems associated with it. When she was diagnosed it hit our family very hard; my mum began having panic attacks and soon after my dad had a nervous breakdown, ostensibly associated with his job but I think my sister’s diagnosis didn’t help. It sounds mad now, but autism was so badly understood and hardly spoken about now. She was quite severe; non-verbal until aged around 8 or 9 and had to attend a special school. I think it hit my dad so badly as he had a brother with Down Syndrome growing up and therefore my sister being diagnosed with a “learning difficulty” as it was termed hit him really hard. My dad also has a sister who I think is autistic but was never diagnosed and who was in a bad marriage with a very controlling man (they are now divorced). I have a best friend- Fiona- who sister has never gotten on with because she thinks she doesn’t like her, but I think that really, it’s rivalry for my affections, although I may be wrong, maybe she just isn’t her kind of person (this is relevant). Fiona and I have been friends since primary school. Sister has never had a female friend and this is a big “missing” part of her life she talks about.

I have always been the “grown up” sibling. Even though I was only tenish when my sister was diagnosed and everything went to bollocks, I felt like I had to “hold everything together”. That has never really changed. I am very close to my mum but my dad is a depressive who is hard to get close to. I feel like my mum excuses a lot of my sister’s bad behaviour at the expense of me and brother and always has, even now we are adults. As a child and teen, I was made to take sister around with me and with my friends, which I didn’t think I minded but which as an adult I realise I did resent. I was very, very pious about never, ever criticising or slagging of my sister because “you have it so much easier” as both my parents and my grandparents used to drum into me. This also meant I have excused a lot of bad behaviour from her; she is very thoughtless and unreliable. She often forgets my birthday or just won’t turn up when we arrange to meet but I never call her out on it.

Fast forward to now. Brother and I both diagnosed in adulthood as being on the ASD spectrum and having ADHD. We are both married and have been since our late twenties, me with three kids and him with four. Sister lived at home until she was 34 and then at 35 married a guy she met online. No kids. Sister can’t hold down a job for reasons I think are associated with her diagnosis. Parents both still around by elderly and mum carer for my even more elderly grandad who lives with them.

My sister and my brother and I fell out around her now-husband and it all reached ahead around their wedding. Petty things, but things which hurt a lot at the time (for example sister paying for a £400 bridesmaid dress for her now-husbands sister and asking me to pay for my own – no big difference in our incomes and lifestyle- and asking his nieces and nephews to be bridesmaids/page boys but not hers). Sister has a history of MH difficulties, including suicidal thoughts in her twenties. Her MH got much worse around the wedding and afterwards; she was a nightmare to be around. What had always been a good relationship (I thought) with my sister started to sour when she met her now-husband and has gotten worse and worse over time, especially surrounding the wedding. I will admit to not being that fond of her husband; he is 18yrs older than her and very controlling in my opinion (and my brothers). He reminds us a lot of our ex-uncle. He feeds into her poor mental health struggles and is quite a gloomy character himself. I am always polite to him though and we have never fallen out.

Last weekend we all went to my brothers for a BBQ and sister found herself alone with my phone in the house. We were all outside and my four-year-old son came in and found her with my phone. She asked him for the passcode, which he knows from playing games on the phone and he gave her. She then proceeded to spend probably 15mins or so reading all the texts between me and Fiona going back over a year on my WhatsApp (that she is admitting to).

I admit absolutely that I have bitched about my sister in messages to Fiona, especially last year when they were moving house and there were some similarities between how she was behaving then and how she was around the wedding. I also bitched about her husband in these messages. They were bitchy but they were also a space for me to vent. I also told some stories there about them for comic effect about stupid things like when my BIL shut his foot in a car door on a family day out. I wasn’t nice about it at all and exaggerated elements of it for the laughs, I admit that, but I wasn’t saying it to him or my sister. I know that’s weak sauce as an excuse.

Anyway, sister has gone mad and is saying she wants us and my brother to have therapy together or she will no longer have us in her life. I don’t want that and will do the therapy but the situation just feels like a huge mess and I can’t see the wood for the trees… I would appreciate any advice you have. FWIW mum and dad think she was wrong to read the messages and say we all talk about people behind one another’s backs and brother agrees, but sister is very black and white and is behaving as though I have actually committed a murder (and claims to never have ever spoken about anyone behind their back).

I do see that slagging her off now to Fiona is a flip side of the years and years I never ever would spoken ill of her or have her spoken ill of.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice. I do think I need to talk about my relationship with her and my wider nuclear family with a therapist. My husband and teenage kids are all angry on my behalf as they see how hard I try with her. I apologise for the length.

OP posts:
NosyJosie · 23/05/2024 14:07

She went on your phone. Used your child to do so. Sneaky and weird.

Let her be. allowed to have resentment about certain things in your family and Vent at your friends.

Sakura7 · 23/05/2024 14:15

I think therapy would be helpful for you, but only for your own well being and at your own discretion. I would absolutely not be doing it as some sort of penance to your sister, who is the one in the wrong.

Just disengage from her, it doesn't sound like she brings anything positive to your life.

Do not apologise, she should be apologising to you for snooping (and for all the other thoughless behaviour).

Leafalotta · 23/05/2024 14:20

While your sister was very wrong to read your messages, overall I felt quite sorry for her reading all this. So your family basically blames her diagnosis for your father's mental breakdown, your mother's mental health issues and the collapse of your childhood? None of that's not her fault. You were made to look after her as a teen? Also not her fault. Your mum favoured her and excused her behaviour? Again, not her fault. Your frustration over your childhood should be directed at your parents. I'm sure your sister feels very blamed for all these problems. No wonder she's suggesting family therapy.

And yes it's pretty unforgivable to write bitchy messages about her and her husband, we all think these things but putting them in writing is a risk, anyone can share messages. I'm sure she knows you disapprove of her husband and this has compounded the hurt. Unless he's abusive you need to accept he's her husband even if you're not keen on him, and respect him as such.

sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 14:25

Thanks for the views so far, especially the one going again the small consensus so far @Leafalotta. Just to address a couple of points that you make- those things are my recounting how things are to my eyes and perception. I would never say them to her and that I know of no one else has.

OP posts:
sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 14:48

I will add that I feel quite violated she went down my phone but the guilt is unreal too as I know I'm the "lucky" sibling.

OP posts:
SaturdayFive · 23/05/2024 15:19

Has anyone thanked you for all the efforts you've made for your sister over the years? Or has it been a one way thing? Who is looking after you now you've had your own diagnosis? I bet it's not her! It sounds like you don't get on anyway, so I'd take the opportunity to put some distance between you after this gross breach of trust.

BMW6 · 23/05/2024 15:32

Tell her to get stuffed. She had absolutely no right to read your phone and deserved to read what you think - her actions prove that you are not wrong! She IS a bitch!

CulturalNomad · 23/05/2024 15:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

CulturalNomad · 23/05/2024 15:39

Anyway, sister has gone mad and is saying she wants us and my brother to have therapy together or she will no longer have us in her life

I don't allow people to blackmail me no matter what their backstory is. Your sister has become quite adept at manipulating people to her advantage. Don't fall into the trap of excusing all her shitty behaviour on her diagnosis.

You might find therapy beneficial for yourself, but don't be coerced into attending family sessions because she's threatened you.

As for your text messages...you were venting to a friend that you trust. Sometimes offloading those feelings is what enables you to deal with a difficult person/situation without losing your cool. There's no excuse for your sister snooping through your messages. What a gross invasion of privacy!

I think a cooling off period would benefit both of you. I wouldn't be dancing to her tune right now because you've been forced to do that since childhood and it hasn't benefited either one of you, has it?

CulturalNomad · 23/05/2024 16:06

And yes it's pretty unforgivable to write bitchy messages about her and her husband, we all think these things but putting them in writing is a risk, anyone can share messages

I strongly disagree with this. And nobody "shared" anything - what the sister did is a gross invasion of privacy and there's no excuse for it. How could the OP anticipate that her sister would be pawing thru her phone messages on her locked phone?!

Unless you have a therapist on retainer who's available 24/7, venting to a trusted friend is a good way let off some steam and diffuse a stressful situation. We are all allowed private conversations and correspondence. When people snoop they get what they deserve.

Newestname002 · 23/05/2024 16:16

sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 14:48

I will add that I feel quite violated she went down my phone but the guilt is unreal too as I know I'm the "lucky" sibling.

  • Have you changed your pincode for your phone now? And
  • Are you able to add facial recognition? 🌹
sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 18:50

SaturdayFive · 23/05/2024 15:19

Has anyone thanked you for all the efforts you've made for your sister over the years? Or has it been a one way thing? Who is looking after you now you've had your own diagnosis? I bet it's not her! It sounds like you don't get on anyway, so I'd take the opportunity to put some distance between you after this gross breach of trust.

To be fair to my parents, yes, they've thanked me over the past couple of years. And since she's been with her now husband they have acknowledged what a tricky character she can be. However at the time no, no one thanked me. And it's really only her treating my parents thoughtlessly that's made them thank me; until they were on the business end of her bullshit they never acknowledged all the work and help I'd given her.

And no, she's not been there for me. In fact, I'd go as far as to say she's never done anything for me. She's never supported me with anything, never showed me any real kindness, never been there to help in times of need. I've told myself over the years it's "because she's the way she is" but it's dawning on me that that's not really an excuse that's washing anymore as she heads towards 40.

OP posts:
sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 18:54

CulturalNomad · 23/05/2024 16:06

And yes it's pretty unforgivable to write bitchy messages about her and her husband, we all think these things but putting them in writing is a risk, anyone can share messages

I strongly disagree with this. And nobody "shared" anything - what the sister did is a gross invasion of privacy and there's no excuse for it. How could the OP anticipate that her sister would be pawing thru her phone messages on her locked phone?!

Unless you have a therapist on retainer who's available 24/7, venting to a trusted friend is a good way let off some steam and diffuse a stressful situation. We are all allowed private conversations and correspondence. When people snoop they get what they deserve.

This is what I think. I didn't send those messages TO my sister. I didn't screenshot them and share them on social media. She's a lot to cope with, and I was venting to a trusted friend. And she went LOOKING for those messages, she picked the phone up, asked my son for the passcode and found and read them. For context Fiona and I text between 5 and 20 times a day, every day. She said she went as far back as January 2023 because it wouldnt load messages prior to that, meaning that she - conservatively- scrolled through about 2,500 message looking for her name. She didn't just stumble across them.

OP posts:
sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 18:56

@Newestname002 I have Face ID but if you don't get in with that you can override it with the passcode. It's an iPhone and I can't find a way to make it so you have to have my face... if you have the passcode seemingly that's that. I have changed it now but the damage is done it seems a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

OP posts:
sheoaouhra · 23/05/2024 18:57

about 5% on you for bitching, and 95% on her for snooping.

I would take this tack. I would say to her,

"ok, it wasn't something I would ever have chosen for you to find out, but now you know how I feel, and that can be a positive thing to move our relationship into a more honest and open adult phase...."

Ball is then in her court. She can build a better relationship with you, taking into consideration your feelings more -- or she can decide not to, and tbf, that would be her loss, not yours.

sisterHelp1 · 23/05/2024 18:59

Thanks so much to everyone who's replied so far. This thread is genuinely helping. I'm still feeling wretched and very guilty and anxious but- tbh- as time is going on I'm feeling increasingly angry that she's invaded my privacy in this way. I know that I have no right to be righteously angry as I'm in the wrong, but my sister has always been sneaky ever since she was a kid and I feel like this is a really sneaky move. She also likes to be a victim (as does her husband, they have that in common and feed off one another) and I feel like she's gone looking for something to be a victim over.

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 23/05/2024 19:03

You've been lazy and irresponsible letting your ds have your income instead of unlocking it for him yourself each time. And now you have this situation. Commiting things to writing is always dangerous. Personally I'd back away from your sister a bit, you sound resentful of her amd I think you need to focus on your nuclear family and friendships if that's what makes you happy. It will soon be forgotten .

Thighdentitycrisis · 23/05/2024 19:05

I understand you must be really resentful about all the caring you were expected to do, in the past and maybe the difficulty you still face as siblings but still I’m thinking that someone who was diagnosed at 4 and went to an SEN school clearly has a learning disability that needs to be taken into account.

I also think therapy could be a good idea, but if you go into it feeling you have been coerced it’s not. Only you can decide that

Candleabra · 23/05/2024 19:06

I think you do have a right to be angry but it’s interesting you think you don’t. Have you always felt like you have to suppress your feelings and emotions, to rise above those feelings, whilst allowing your sister to “feel” however she wants? I think the whole family is entrenched in an unhealthy dynamic. You were expected to have grown up responses to normal emotions as a very young child. It’s not unusual - everyone tiptoeing round the younger or “sensitive” sibling.

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 23/05/2024 19:22

I won't go to therapy with you. I owe you nothing. You have always been high maintenance and I've had to put you and your needs first, my entire life. I am tired of it. You are selfish and I don't especially like your husband either. I am entitled to vent privately to my friends. You only saw those messages at all because you deliberately snooped on my phone without my permission.

I will not jump when you say jump and if you no longer want me in your life on that basis then it really is your loss and I wish you a nice life.

Hocuspocustoasty · 23/05/2024 19:32

What @HeadDeskHeadDesk said 100%. Summarised perfectly what you should tell her

Greatdomestic · 23/05/2024 20:03

Agree 💯 with Heaadesk.

How dare your sister use your child to invade your privacy.

gingerlions · 23/05/2024 20:39

That is awful behaviour from your sister! She could have read some really private things that your Fiona trusted you with/ private things that you confided in Fiona about.

Also very sneaky asking your child, I hope they don't hold any guilt about providing the passcode if they saw that it caused a family argument.

I would only go to the therapy but if I was prepared to be very open and honest about my true feelings. It may help you both to let go of resentments and move into a more healthy dynamic, although I suspect that's not your sister's motive.

Outlookmainlyfair · 23/05/2024 20:39

RedHelenB · 23/05/2024 19:03

You've been lazy and irresponsible letting your ds have your income instead of unlocking it for him yourself each time. And now you have this situation. Commiting things to writing is always dangerous. Personally I'd back away from your sister a bit, you sound resentful of her amd I think you need to focus on your nuclear family and friendships if that's what makes you happy. It will soon be forgotten .

lazy and irresponsible? Really? That is harsh and I disagree.

CulturalNomad · 23/05/2024 20:51

I know that I have no right to be righteously angry as I'm in the wrong

I don't know why you'd think you are in the wrong. Venting in private to a trusted friend is not wrong. Your sister was the one who did something wrong here.

I think you've been expected your whole life to put your sister's needs and wants first and you're going to have to find a way to break that cycle. It wasn't fair to you as a child and isn't fair to you now. Time to say "enough"!

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