Wife sees me as friend, says she still loves me as a family member?

[Longtimelurker12]

So I have been going through it over the past 12-18 months with my wife. We have been married for 15 years this year and together for almost 18 years. We are both 38 and have two children, between 9 and 15. about 12 or so months ago I was concerned about her lack of intimacy, hugging and kissing, just general loving nature so I asked her how she was doing, her mother passed about two years ago, and her family is distant, so I was concerned and wanted to talk with her about how she was feeling. She informed me that she just didn't love me like she did in the past, and that she had blamed me for not seeing her mother enough prior to her death, to put it simply she saw me as a lazy man whom she was not really attracted to any longer. She gave me a list of items that she wanted me to work through to see if she could find that feeling again, however her resentment towards me was clear, and I was not sure if it was a possibility for me to become someone she wanted, based on my schedule and limitations with work and taking care of the family. We came up together, started dating when we were 21 and I worked and she took care of the kids. we eventually earned enough money and live in a dream community with a dream life most would kill for. She has hobbies, but not many friends, she has a few, but still not many. I would classify her as very friendly and easy to get along with, but also holds herself and others to very high standards, sometimes so high that it can become exhausting trying to meet her standard of what she sees a person should be. Like any relationship we have had our troubles in the past, but nothing so large that would affect a marriage. Anyhow, like any blind man, I went on with life thinking that she was hurting and felt neglected, so i focused on being loving, caring and made sure to hug her and tell her i loved her, despite her clear aversion to this, I am the kind of guy that thinks love and affection will fix things, and I believe based on our most recent conversation that i was wrong. We have been making love, not on a schedule but sort of an expected time table, Fridays/Saturdays, but only once a week and this has been going on for quite some time. I am personally very fit, lean and would consider myself attractive, who knows, I haven't dated or pursued a woman in a looonnnggg time, but I am not blind and can see that women do look at me and are often complimentary towards me in the gym and in public places. She is also beautiful and exercises regularly and is attractive from what I can see in the public spectrum when we are at the gym or in public. I do love my wife, and I suppose I just don't have as high of standards as her when it comes to little faults, and am more forgiving because i believe in marriage you should be forgiving towards your partners faults, Afterall, its supposed to be a lifelong commitment, and it can be tough. She does complain that I have left my socks on the floor, need to clean the back yard more, keep the outside tidy, finish projects around the home etc... I am trying to be more frugal about spending, but it is tough with her current habits, she spends a good amount of money on just everyday life, and doesn't have to consider things like mortgage/taxes/insurance, really anything as I have made a decent living and have always paid for everything for the past 11 years or so, I don't think she sees that we spend about 10-14 thousand per month on our expenses and it is very hard to keep up with, so these projects around the house, the upkeep of the backyard etc. I have tried to do myself to save money, and it has turned out great, we have two or three projects that need to be finished, but nothing big. Anyway, this past week she asked me if i wanted to have sex, and I told her that I wasn't sure if we should because she was not really wanting to, more asking me to fulfill my needs, and I, being a passionate person really cringe at the idea of having a wife who just wants to fulfill my needs and doesn't desire me passionately. She coaxed me into sex and while we are making love, she is always satisfied, to put it mildly, multiple times; but i have found it difficult to enjoy because she doesn't like kissing me, and turns her head away when I do try to kiss her; totally kills the mood for me, after she is tired from sex she tells me to finish up and complains that I am trying to turn it into a marathon, truthfully i am just trying to enjoy the little bit of a passionate intimate moment i can with my wife. Anyway, I informed her that i was no longer in the mood to finish having sex and it created quite an argument. I told her how i felt and she let me know that she had lost romantic feelings towards me and sees me as her "friend" or "best friend" as she put it. I told her that i thought things were getting better between us and clearly i was mistaken. We have discussed this multiple times over the past few days, quite reasonable conversations and we have always been respectful towards one another, but she has informed me again that I need to make personal changes and become a person that truly loves myself and need to find happiness. I told her that I am very happy, and don't really have many things I want to improve. I simply told her i didn't know if I could be the man that she has envisioned, or created in her mind and that i was not really sure if I could be the person she was thinking of, hey, why lie right? I am not the begging type of person, but I did ask her, how she could live with someone she didn't love and sees as a friend, and she said that if I didn't want to see if she would come around and love me again as a husband that it was not fair for me to stay in the relationship. She has recently, over the past year or two been listening to some self help gurus and studying transcendental meditation, I informed her that I think a lot of these guys out there peddling these theories are trying to get wealthy women and/or unhappy women around 40 years old to buy their books and pay for their seminars and are not everything she believes they are, and could be damaging her relationships etc. I told her that i am concerned about her happiness and that I do love her despite the hurtful things she said to me. I told her that I personally think she should focus on her family and building our relationship back up to where it was, and that could be the true key to her happiness. Anyway, I told her I would give her space and let her figure her stuff out. In the mean time I did ask her to look for a job and inform her that if we were to look towards separation that we would need to sell the house and that i can find a place for her while she gets on her feet so we could divide up assets and all that fun stuff. Anyway, this is my story, for what its worth, I am not for divorce, but as a young, fit man who has been rejected for about 2 years regularly, not just intimately, but for any type of affection such as hugs, kissing or just general bonding I am sort of at my end with trying to be whatever she wants, I have discovered that I need to focus on my ability to take care of my family, which is my only focus really and figure out how I will take care of her and the kids in a two household situation as alimony and child support will be expensive. I told her that this was a very big thing for me to figure out and deal with the potential reality of and I may have to stay at families houses while we go through the process. This is just a rant, not sure what I can do or say at this point, but I did like the advice given on this forum and thought it might be a non judgmental place to get advice and perspective. The weird thing is she still wants to plan vacations to go to far away places with our kids, months in advance, still is discussing summer plans for things for us to do as a family, I don't know how to tell her that this whole situation makes me feel that I have lost my family and that I don't want to invest in these trips as a family because if we are about to separate, group "family" trips wont exist as I cannot take my "best friend" on a trip, while pretending to be a happy loving couple.

Thank You!

You need to cut this down by 2/3rds and use paragraphs. I can't be bothered to read a solid lump of text like this.

She's over it. Whether you think that's justified or not.

I don't think you're punishing her through sex, I don't think I could see through having sex with someone who told me they loved me like a family member, but can also see how you thought it might help to reconnect.

Her points also seem contradictory, you need to work full time, finish the DIY projects but also get hobbies and not be around the home too much.

Honestly when someone is like this they're just done and maybe she's not able to articulate that so is looking for tangible things to evidence how she's feeling, but it's like the she divorced me for leaving a cup next to the dishwasher thing, it's a combination and build up of drip drip, altering the dynamic in the relationship and the way she feels about you as an individual and a partner in the truest sense of the word.

I also think having a SAHP often leads to resentment and a lack of understanding of the others' stresses and burdens, it can work in some circumstances but I've seen it not work more often.

Also she's not having an orgasm in 4 minutes she just thinks that'll be the end if she acts like she has

I think she loves the lifestyle she has with you, but she doesn't love you. Sounds bored and spoilt as well. Sad, but there it is.

Too hard….use paragraphs

Have you completed these things yet?

"Clean the garage, finish the projects around the house (our handrail on our stairs needs to be finished) clean up the back yard, take pride in cleaning up my tools, things like that."

What @grinandslothit said. Have you completed the tasks? Have you started picking up your socks?

She is not having multiple orgasms off a few minutes of sex. She's faking to try and get you to hurry the fuck up.

Why does she not work? What does she do all day? 80/90 hours a week working is insane. Do you really have to work that much?

She is acting like a sulking child because you are enabling her to be a child. Why is she not working and earning her own way? Being ‘kept’ is not going to bolster her self esteem and happiness, but it will reinforce resentment and taking you for granted.

Also, are you blind or not? You’ve mentioned blindness twice when describing yourself. Replace ‘blind’ with any other protected characteristic and ask yourself if this ok. Not an endearing way to speak, op. I dare say it would leave many of us cold.

Where are the DCs when you are both at the gym at 5am?

Most women don't want a DP who works 80-90 hours then spends what free time they have in the gym. You must be going to sleep very early to be in the gym at 4am.

It's not a home life id want, even for the thousands a month! Just spend the money getting the work done.

You’re getting a hard time on this thread, which is regrettable given you’re in pain.

you might be better off talking to someone in real life-but bear in mind perfectionists, which your wife sounds like she is, are never satisfied

your wife is spoiled, doesn't realise how lucky she is to have a man that provides 100% without her needing to work. teach her a lesson and cut off her allowances, let her get a job to know how it feels to work hard for every penny and then maybe after that she will feel gratitude for what you do. until then, she will never be satisfied and just keep expecting more and more. you can give someone the whole world and they'll still expect more until you run dry.

Do you tend to only want to hug or kiss her in the hopes it'll lead to sex?

"while this is the only real intimacy I get out of her"
It sounds a bit controlling to be honest to be trying to make the sex last for longer. It's like you 'have her' in the bed so you'll try to make the situation last longer for your own needs.

A bit like if you were driving her in the car, you might slow the car down and then take longer ways home without telling her, just to prolong the time you have with her in the car.

You have no friends or hobbies with other people, am I right? Are you socially anxious? You say you are a passionate person but do you avoid meeting new people or getting involved in activities where you have to meet and talk to people?

Could it be that your wife feels the burden of being the only person in your life. Therefore your pool of people to connect with and enjoy life with is very small - it's just her and the kids. Have you made her responsible for your entire happiness in life?

You say you are 'concerned for her happiness'. Is it not your own happiness you are concerned for.

You say you are not happy with only having sex once a week.
If you are separated you won't be having sex even once a week.

I think the issue might be that you struggle to connect emotionally and sex is used by you to feel security rather than love.
If you are unable to communicate your feeling verbally and feel an emotional connection then that is part of your issue.

Are you having to rely on sex to 'communicate' because it's the ONLY time you feel any sort of emotional connection. In other situations, might it be that you avoid people and avoid emotionally connections because you are avoiding your feelings.

What is your relationship like with your kids? Do you take them out on hobbies by yourself or like teaching them to ride their bikes or take them camping or take them to the swimming pool on your own?

Do you leave the parenting and the emotional connecting with your kids to your wife? Do you tend to stay at work even when you could come home earlier, or look at emails during the evenings and weekends?

Do you see it as 'well I earn loads of big bucks for my family yet nobody seems to care about my feelings'

I strongly suggest you see couples counselling. If your wife doesn't wish for this then go to counselling yourself.

10-15 grand a month? On expenses?

She no longer fancies you. She's having sex with you out of duty. She's got the ick. Don't think it can be changed Not sure why you think you can't afford to move out ? She will
Have to stop spending stupid amounts so you can pay your rent !! That's when she will stamp her feet

What sstood out for me is that she gave you a list of things she was unhappy about and instead of addressing those, you decided it would be better to spend more time hugging and kissing her even though she told you she didn't feel comfortable and then you have mammoth sex sessions even though she tells you she doesn't want to.

You claim you think she should have more friends etc, but how is she supposed to manage this? According to you, you work all the hours. And then, when you're home, you're busy pawing at her. So how is she suppose dto go out? Also, her other request is that you find something BESIDES family, which suggests you're one of those men who want constant "family time" so everything must be done together, all the time. Of course, that's great for you but less great for her who is probably having to run around doing all the work to facilitate this, all the mental load, all the cooking and planning and meal prep.

You say your wife spends lots of money? On what? Because again, I'm guessing it's the endless amount of stuff that your family needs, not spa days for herself. I've heard of men whining about the constant Amazon shopping or whatever - but those purchases are toiletries and costumes for school plays and crafts for a school project and the new tupperware for lunch boxes and a set of new waterpoof bedding etc etc etc.

You have posted lots of words but very little about what your wife actually does or what she has actually SAID about what she wants from you and the few things you highlight that she HAS said or asked for, you've blatantly said you can't and won't do.

I don't believe your wife was travelling to see her mother 2500 miles away every single weekend. I bet it was much less often. But you got whiney and she had to cut even that back.

I really like this site sometimes but when a man posts it just seems that no one actually reads anything he says! It’s so frustrating and childish. Yes the post is long but jeez, it’s hardly unusual ffs.

Clearly he is trying and has clearly said he tried to do some DIY himself to save money, which seems sensible when you’re spending 10000 per month on expenses! The wife doesn’t work and they must have some kind of regular childcare if they are both at the gym at 5am.

OP, it sounds like your wife is over the relationship and but realises that without you her lifestyle would probably change drastically. If you want to try to salvage the relationship, counselling may help with a proper list of what needs to change and each of you agreeing to put it into action. Sorry to say, but I think the chances that she has met someone else is also quite high, given that she’s cheated before. Either way, you should prepare herself for the fact the relationship may not last long term. How old are your children?

Your wife has actually said quite clearly what her issues are. It's your right to argue against that e.g. 'yeah I leave projects lying about but I also work all the time so dont have a load of spare time'. But...'winning' an argument isn't going to suddenly make your wife sexually attracted to you again.

Giving loads of affection which she doesn't like..because that's what you would like is also not going to do a thing for her attraction. It's exceptionally self centered.

I think the fact that she doesn't want to kiss you even during sex is a clear indication that your marriage is stone dead.

I think she likes the ££££££ you bring and would be perfectly happy to carry on as you are. Are you?

I think if you need affection, let alone Love, you need to end this marriage and find someone who will love you - or at least want to kiss you!

I reckon she'll feign affection if you tell her you want a divorce, the house will be sold and she'll need to get a job. But it won't be real and it won't last long.

I think you have to accept the marriage is over.

The fact she kissed another guy and you just accepted her behaviour says a lot to me.

Maybe she's actually having an affair and wants to continue her good life with you providing.

Maybe she's just outgrown you.

So for some reason they canceled my account on here. I thought i would come back on and tell everyone what happened. So I told my wife before separating we should sell all assets and just divide the money so we didnt have a messy divorce and have to deal with property being caught in the court process. She was accepting of this and the property is currently on the market, has been for about a week and we already have a few good offers. Just before listing the home, she expressed something that i would like your opinion on. she said

"The way you have been acting lately is really great, you got the projects completed, the house looks better than ever. I still dont love you, but if you keep this up, I could see myself falling in love with you again in the future "possibly""

This is very difficult for me because I really do love my wife. But I told her that the fact that she has already started the divorce process, and is comfortable breaking the home apart and has watched me crumble to the thought of all of this with little to no emotion, shows me that she does not love me now. Of course there are things I have not told everyone here, but the real reasoning for me not giving into this possibility is that the whole process has crushed me, and her as well, I do believe the fear of the future of her life is what drove her to trying to tell me "I could potentially see myself loving you in the future again, if you kept acting in this manner" frankly i didn`t want to take advantage of her weakness in the situation and her asserting that she could possibly love me again in the future simply was not how I wanted to move forward.

Your update is so unclear.

'So I told my wife before separating we should sell all assets and just divide the money so we didnt have a messy divorce and have to deal with property being caught in the court process. She was accepting of this and the property is currently on the market, has been for about a week and we already have a few good offers.'

this implies that the money side is being sorted before the divorce

but

' the fact that she has already started the divorce process,'

so when did she start the divorce ?

and to clarify - you and she are now separated ?

How are the children taking it ?

She wants to file after we sell the house, but in my mind it’s only paperwork.

kids are upset, but she and I get along so well, I think that has helped them in some ways. My 9 year old is a little young to understand, my 14 year old is pretty upset, but doing well considering. He and I have a great relationship, so we talk things out and I let him express himself. My 9 year old is a little more reserved than my son, she is an absolute daddy’s girl and I believe she is just trying to keep the peace and enjoy the last month or so that we will have as a family.

it’s a little unconventional, but I guess I am just doing the best I can. Some days are better than others.

Hi,

I'm reaching out because I'm in the exact same position as yourself right now. I don't think your post is too long... if you relate to it, doesn't matter how long it is.

Carry on moving forward, you'll both get cold feet some days. It's scary out there.

But you're both thinking of your children which are what matters post relationship.

Sometimes love fades.

Sorry but I really do believe she's trying to reel you in.

She likes the lifestyle but doesn't want YOU.
I'm afraid I have a very low opinion of people who manipulate like your wife is.

Please carry on with the divorce and get some real love. I really hope you do.