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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Wife sees me as friend, says she still loves me as a family member?

77 replies

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 16:50

So I have been going through it over the past 12-18 months with my wife. We have been married for 15 years this year and together for almost 18 years. We are both 38 and have two children, between 9 and 15. about 12 or so months ago I was concerned about her lack of intimacy, hugging and kissing, just general loving nature so I asked her how she was doing, her mother passed about two years ago, and her family is distant, so I was concerned and wanted to talk with her about how she was feeling. She informed me that she just didn't love me like she did in the past, and that she had blamed me for not seeing her mother enough prior to her death, to put it simply she saw me as a lazy man whom she was not really attracted to any longer. She gave me a list of items that she wanted me to work through to see if she could find that feeling again, however her resentment towards me was clear, and I was not sure if it was a possibility for me to become someone she wanted, based on my schedule and limitations with work and taking care of the family. We came up together, started dating when we were 21 and I worked and she took care of the kids. we eventually earned enough money and live in a dream community with a dream life most would kill for. She has hobbies, but not many friends, she has a few, but still not many. I would classify her as very friendly and easy to get along with, but also holds herself and others to very high standards, sometimes so high that it can become exhausting trying to meet her standard of what she sees a person should be. Like any relationship we have had our troubles in the past, but nothing so large that would affect a marriage. Anyhow, like any blind man, I went on with life thinking that she was hurting and felt neglected, so i focused on being loving, caring and made sure to hug her and tell her i loved her, despite her clear aversion to this, I am the kind of guy that thinks love and affection will fix things, and I believe based on our most recent conversation that i was wrong. We have been making love, not on a schedule but sort of an expected time table, Fridays/Saturdays, but only once a week and this has been going on for quite some time. I am personally very fit, lean and would consider myself attractive, who knows, I haven't dated or pursued a woman in a looonnnggg time, but I am not blind and can see that women do look at me and are often complimentary towards me in the gym and in public places. She is also beautiful and exercises regularly and is attractive from what I can see in the public spectrum when we are at the gym or in public. I do love my wife, and I suppose I just don't have as high of standards as her when it comes to little faults, and am more forgiving because i believe in marriage you should be forgiving towards your partners faults, Afterall, its supposed to be a lifelong commitment, and it can be tough. She does complain that I have left my socks on the floor, need to clean the back yard more, keep the outside tidy, finish projects around the home etc... I am trying to be more frugal about spending, but it is tough with her current habits, she spends a good amount of money on just everyday life, and doesn't have to consider things like mortgage/taxes/insurance, really anything as I have made a decent living and have always paid for everything for the past 11 years or so, I don't think she sees that we spend about 10-14 thousand per month on our expenses and it is very hard to keep up with, so these projects around the house, the upkeep of the backyard etc. I have tried to do myself to save money, and it has turned out great, we have two or three projects that need to be finished, but nothing big. Anyway, this past week she asked me if i wanted to have sex, and I told her that I wasn't sure if we should because she was not really wanting to, more asking me to fulfill my needs, and I, being a passionate person really cringe at the idea of having a wife who just wants to fulfill my needs and doesn't desire me passionately. She coaxed me into sex and while we are making love, she is always satisfied, to put it mildly, multiple times; but i have found it difficult to enjoy because she doesn't like kissing me, and turns her head away when I do try to kiss her; totally kills the mood for me, after she is tired from sex she tells me to finish up and complains that I am trying to turn it into a marathon, truthfully i am just trying to enjoy the little bit of a passionate intimate moment i can with my wife. Anyway, I informed her that i was no longer in the mood to finish having sex and it created quite an argument. I told her how i felt and she let me know that she had lost romantic feelings towards me and sees me as her "friend" or "best friend" as she put it. I told her that i thought things were getting better between us and clearly i was mistaken. We have discussed this multiple times over the past few days, quite reasonable conversations and we have always been respectful towards one another, but she has informed me again that I need to make personal changes and become a person that truly loves myself and need to find happiness. I told her that I am very happy, and don't really have many things I want to improve. I simply told her i didn't know if I could be the man that she has envisioned, or created in her mind and that i was not really sure if I could be the person she was thinking of, hey, why lie right? I am not the begging type of person, but I did ask her, how she could live with someone she didn't love and sees as a friend, and she said that if I didn't want to see if she would come around and love me again as a husband that it was not fair for me to stay in the relationship. She has recently, over the past year or two been listening to some self help gurus and studying transcendental meditation, I informed her that I think a lot of these guys out there peddling these theories are trying to get wealthy women and/or unhappy women around 40 years old to buy their books and pay for their seminars and are not everything she believes they are, and could be damaging her relationships etc. I told her that i am concerned about her happiness and that I do love her despite the hurtful things she said to me. I told her that I personally think she should focus on her family and building our relationship back up to where it was, and that could be the true key to her happiness. Anyway, I told her I would give her space and let her figure her stuff out. In the mean time I did ask her to look for a job and inform her that if we were to look towards separation that we would need to sell the house and that i can find a place for her while she gets on her feet so we could divide up assets and all that fun stuff. Anyway, this is my story, for what its worth, I am not for divorce, but as a young, fit man who has been rejected for about 2 years regularly, not just intimately, but for any type of affection such as hugs, kissing or just general bonding I am sort of at my end with trying to be whatever she wants, I have discovered that I need to focus on my ability to take care of my family, which is my only focus really and figure out how I will take care of her and the kids in a two household situation as alimony and child support will be expensive. I told her that this was a very big thing for me to figure out and deal with the potential reality of and I may have to stay at families houses while we go through the process. This is just a rant, not sure what I can do or say at this point, but I did like the advice given on this forum and thought it might be a non judgmental place to get advice and perspective. The weird thing is she still wants to plan vacations to go to far away places with our kids, months in advance, still is discussing summer plans for things for us to do as a family, I don't know how to tell her that this whole situation makes me feel that I have lost my family and that I don't want to invest in these trips as a family because if we are about to separate, group "family" trips wont exist as I cannot take my "best friend" on a trip, while pretending to be a happy loving couple.

Thank You!

OP posts:
Justcoincidences · 21/05/2024 22:01

I would give her a real apology.

DahliaSmith · 21/05/2024 22:06

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 19:52

Is this too long?

Yes.

MushMonster · 21/05/2024 22:22

I did try to read the whole novel!
That is a long one!
To be honest (and I know this sounds bad...), your wife sounds spoiled to me.
I do not think she is very mature at all.
She is rather weird around intimacy. Or either she wants you or not. No way I would stick around someone who refuses kisses and hugs regularly. And for whatever psychological twist, to have sex in this situation. I find her taunting. I would not play the cat and mouse with her, or the pick me up dance. No way I would tolerate a "I see you as a friend", followed of "where are we spending the summer as a family" convo.
Listen to what she wants, assess it and act on it only if it makes sense.
For example, if she is asking for date nights- yes.
If she asks you to help with the house chores after your 80 hours of work, while she has a cleaner+does not work- no f...g way!.
Now, if she needs help to set up a child's party and clean after- then yes (even if you have to take time off work- maybe you are working too much?)
I mean, set clear boundaries that make sense to you, your family and your own personality. Be clear with her, firm. Stay your ground regarding on who you are- not a toy in her hands. Me, personally, I find more attractive men with strong principles and personality and I do not want a push over at all. Not that I mean you are, but you do mention that you have tried to fulfill her list of high standards and I know that can be a bit of a rabbit hole. She needs to measure to your "standards" too, to consider your happiness and wellbeing too.
Maybe she needs to do something else? Like getting a part time job? Something to be herself?
Maybe you are too absent from the home?
And, really, I would say it once but if she does not engage, I would leave her.

Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:23

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 21:34

Yeah, where does this page originate?

Mumsnet is uk based so the majority of posters are women from the U.K. but there are ppl from around the world who access and post - you obviously know this ☺️ I’d assumed you were an American living over here. I hope you get the advice and support you are seeking.

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 22:25

Olivia2495 · 21/05/2024 21:48

She gave me a list of items that she wanted me to work through

like what

Clean the garage, finish the projects around the house (our handrail on our stairs needs to be finished) clean up the back yard, take pride in cleaning up my tools, things like that.

the main emphasis is that she wants me to focus more on being happy (I am pretty happy) She wants me to focus on finding purpose outside of the family and our personal relationship. I told her that for a man, and husband/father that their pride in their family and relationships is very important, and that was something I couldn't do as I think it is healthy to depend on your family and take pride in your personal relationships.

OP posts:
Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:28

I think ppl on here are giving you an unnecessarily hard time for posting a long OP, you’re a first time poster and may not be familiar with the usual way ppl post, that’s not your fault. Also, if you put information up in chunks ppl would accuse you of drip-feeding 🤷🏼‍♀️ which is a bug-bear on here!

You have a lot which concerns you and have written all your thoughts down which is understandable, almost like a stream of consciousness. Maybe write the key points you need help with.

Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:32

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 22:25

Clean the garage, finish the projects around the house (our handrail on our stairs needs to be finished) clean up the back yard, take pride in cleaning up my tools, things like that.

the main emphasis is that she wants me to focus more on being happy (I am pretty happy) She wants me to focus on finding purpose outside of the family and our personal relationship. I told her that for a man, and husband/father that their pride in their family and relationships is very important, and that was something I couldn't do as I think it is healthy to depend on your family and take pride in your personal relationships.

It sounds like she may want some space herself which is part of encouraging you to find hobbies and interests outside the house. Do you socialise much with your own set of friends? Does she? Would you like her to pursue her own interests or prefer her to stay at home with you and the kids? Do you take time to go out as a couple and spend time alone together?

Sorry if I’ve missed all this.

DancingFerret · 21/05/2024 22:35

Sorry, OP, I took one look at all that script without a paragraph in sight and just couldn't read it.

Haffiana · 21/05/2024 22:36

Anyhow, like any blind man, I went on with life thinking that she was hurting and felt neglected, so i focused on being loving, caring and made sure to hug her and tell her i loved her, despite her clear aversion to this,

Why didn't you ask her what SHE was feeling instead of deciding what she needed? It wasn't what she needed it was what you wanted to do.

I told her that I personally think she should focus on her family and building our relationship back up to where it was, and that could be the true key to her happiness. Anyway, I told her I would give her space and let her figure her stuff out. In the mean time I did ask her to look for a job and inform her that if we were to look towards separation that we would need to sell the house and that i can find a place for her while she gets on her feet so we could divide up assets and all that fun stuff.

What strikes me here is you telling her again what she should be wanting for her happiness. So you are not listening, dismissing what she wants, and also getting a little threat in.

Everything she says to you, you dismiss - she should be more forgiving of you blah blah.

She coaxed me into sex and while we are making love, she is always satisfied, to put it mildly, multiple times; but i have found it difficult to enjoy because she doesn't like kissing me, and turns her head away when I do try to kiss her; totally kills the mood for me, after she is tired from sex she tells me to finish up and complains that I am trying to turn it into a marathon, truthfully i am just trying to enjoy the little bit of a passionate intimate moment i can with my wife. Anyway, I informed her that i was no longer in the mood to finish having sex and it created quite an argument.

I don't know if you realise from your own words how obvious it is that you are punishing her during sex. If a man did that to me, I would be utterly repulsed and I would not sleep with him again, ever. If you are a man who does that to his wife, then you need to get the hell away from her. When the sex becomes angry like this then it is over.

When we were younger, she would visit her mother often, every weekend as she was in somewhat bad health, but i only objected on occasion due to the fact that i did not get to see her or my children as she would go with them to her home for the entire weekend while i was working 80-90 hour work weeks.

So why does she feel that you kept her away from her mother?

Longtimelurker12 · 21/05/2024 22:37

Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:32

It sounds like she may want some space herself which is part of encouraging you to find hobbies and interests outside the house. Do you socialise much with your own set of friends? Does she? Would you like her to pursue her own interests or prefer her to stay at home with you and the kids? Do you take time to go out as a couple and spend time alone together?

Sorry if I’ve missed all this.

Edited

Agreed, and I think she wants some friends of her own. She does have a close friend, and I have actually introduced her to a few people whom she has become close with from the gym. My only hobby is the Gym and Gardening, I go to the gym at 4am daily and she normally comes to the gym around 5am. I have never put restrictions on her interests or desires. We used to do date nights every Friday, but ultimately stopped about 6 months ago. Who knows, it could be as simple as a few date nights per month, however, as a husband it is hard to look past the obvious things she stated. guess I am kind of lost with it but hoping to figure it all out before its truly out of my control.

OP posts:
Monty27 · 21/05/2024 22:37

@Longtimelurker12 yes it's too long. I tried my best but scrolled down after 3 chapters HRTH in other words.
You came across as arrogant from what I did read.

MushMonster · 21/05/2024 22:40

That list.... as PP says, it sounds to me like she is the one that needs (badly) some space of herself.
It is easy enough to lose view of who you are as a person when you are a mother and wife.
Maybe a job? Back to school? A business of her own? Anything that she loves in particular?

TheFormidableMrsC · 21/05/2024 22:44

user1984778379202 · 21/05/2024 21:39

Have you posted about this before? There was a near identical thread posted a few days ago.

There is a similar thread currently but not the same OP.

Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:57

Could you try couples counselling where an objective mediator helps to ask the difficult questions and allows you both to speak and listen to each other ‘fairly’ for lack of a better word?

A difficult question, but have you considered she may have met somebody else, which is why she is less interested in intimacy with you - although once a week (it sounds like you’re disappointed with this) is a lot more regular than a lot of couples with children manage to have in all
honesty! She wants to do this though and even ‘coaxed’ you into it you said, which is a good sign. Or do you think this was more for her benefit than yours?

Icedlatteplease · 21/05/2024 23:04

If you want the relationship to be fixed why not start with the simple stuff she wants fixed? Show her the stuff that is important to her is important to you.

Getting someone in to fix the bannister or the back yard is peanuts compared to a divorce.

Atm it's all I love my wife and this is what matters to me.., but I can't possibly do what is asked of me despite there really being little personal cost. And I work 80-90 hour weeks so my wife should prioritise my need for my family over her need to spend time with her dying mother... despite the fact I clearly don't really prioritise time with family in the 80-90 hours a week I work.

What you are doing doesn't really match what you are saying. The stuff she is asking you to do is really just a symbol for the fact you value her needs and wishes at the same level as your own. The gods honest truth is you can't be bothered.

You work out at the gym not because it is good for your health and wellbeing but because being fit is considered an attractive status symbol.

You need to work out whether you have a family and wife because you generally care for them or because they are status symbols, trappings of wealth and success. You need to see them as individuals with superate, equally valid, needs and desires.

Knitgoodwoman · 21/05/2024 23:08

Would she be receptive to therapy? Some of the issues look similar to my husband and I and honestly therapy has seriously helped. In fact I can’t believe how much it’s helped.

Vanillalime · 21/05/2024 23:28

Am I reading correctly that you can work 80 hour weeks and your wife does not work? I assume the children are at school, so why is she not in paid employment? If I was her I’d get back to work asap.

And if she has so much free time why does she not tidy the garden & fix the bannister? Surely she can tackle these tasks during the week?

You mentioned leaving socks on the floor - why can’t you put them straight into a laundry bin? She probably sees this as lazy & like you are a 3rd child.

What was the list of things she wanted you to work through?

Overall it reads like your wife feels taken for granted & she’s fallen a bit out of love. Coupled with the death of her mother she may be feeling resentment too. But I think some couples counselling may help you both reignite the spark. It doesn’t feel unsalvageable to me.

Longtimelurker12 · 22/05/2024 18:17

Sceptical123 · 21/05/2024 22:57

Could you try couples counselling where an objective mediator helps to ask the difficult questions and allows you both to speak and listen to each other ‘fairly’ for lack of a better word?

A difficult question, but have you considered she may have met somebody else, which is why she is less interested in intimacy with you - although once a week (it sounds like you’re disappointed with this) is a lot more regular than a lot of couples with children manage to have in all
honesty! She wants to do this though and even ‘coaxed’ you into it you said, which is a good sign. Or do you think this was more for her benefit than yours?

I am open to counseling, but our conversations are very civil, we share our feelings and discuss things without raising our voices and we are both very kind to one another, despite things we don`t really like hearing.

Of course I have considered she may be interested in other people, we do attend a gym in a very populated area and she is beautiful and fit, given our issues we have experienced and being together for 18 years, I have no doubt she has looked at other men wondering if the grass is greener, there was a time about 4 years ago she went out with a girlfriend and did kiss another man at a nightclub, her friend threatened to tell me about the incident, so my wife, begrudgingly told me under the threat of her friend spilling the news first. I dont know the full story and I just figured I would believe my wife and never spoke to her friend, they are no longer friends after that incident and it has left me wondering if that was all that happened. Like a putz, I came to discover i picked up her friend and my wife from the nightclub after it happened, so I know they didnt go anywhere afterwards with the guy, but who knows what really transpired.

I don`t necessarily have a problem with the frequency of sex, I can deal with my sex drive being higher than hers, but i do enjoy intimacy with her, she is my wife and I love her a great deal. We enjoy sex together, however she normally climaxes about 5 times to my one, and she does so rather quickly - literally 4 minutes and she is done, while this is the only real intimacy I get out of her I use this time to initiate a little foreplay while she is more on the thought process of can you just get it over with. I get it a bit, but I am a passionate person and usually this attitude makes me lose the desire to have sex at all and makes me feel guilty as if she is doing it out of obligation. It certainly leaves me feeling confused because she must enjoy it if she is having 5 or more orgasms each time we make love. i think her rejecting hugs/kisses from me adds on to this and just makes me feel rejected, because this is how i express my love towards her. Literally, no kissing, no hugging whatsoever unless it is initiated by me for years.

OP posts:
Sceptical123 · 22/05/2024 19:00

Is the lack of intimacy a new thing or were you always the more physical of the two when you first met? Ppl’s libidos can wax and wane. It’s a cliche that women’s deteriorate as they get older, but this could possibly be true in your wife’s case. It’s a very special thing for you to be so in love with your wife after so long together, but it sounds like maybe your wife would appreciate some more time out of her ‘mother’ role. You could perhaps facilitate this by being a bit spontaneous with date nights (or not if she doesn’t like surprises). But maybe try to make them more frequent and exciting/imaginative to see how things go and if they improve things between the two of you.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/05/2024 23:59

I skim read this but my two bits of advice are

  • follow @jimmy on relationship on Instagram (with an undercover between the words) who will explain everything your wife is feeling but can't put into words.
  • google things like the mental load
  • counselling if you both want to stay together
OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 23/05/2024 00:10

Wow that was a llllooooonnnggg opening post.

I tried counting the amount of times you used the word ' I '
but gave up...

but in reply to your question - ' Yeah, where does this page originate? '

Mumsnet is a London-based internet forum, created in 2000 by Justine Roberts for discussion between parents of children and teenagers. Wikipedia
Founders: Justine Roberts, Carolyn Longton
Founded: 20 March 2000
Headquarters: London

HTH

FiveZoo · 23/05/2024 00:13

Stop looking for reasons to blame your wife.

Own it.

You are just fed up with monogamy.

Do we know whether you are going to fuck your life up, we don't know, but chances are you will and you may regret it further down the line.

Choices.

BarbaraWoodlouse1 · 23/05/2024 00:20

She sounds spoilt.

Josette77 · 23/05/2024 00:25

FiveZoo · 23/05/2024 00:13

Stop looking for reasons to blame your wife.

Own it.

You are just fed up with monogamy.

Do we know whether you are going to fuck your life up, we don't know, but chances are you will and you may regret it further down the line.

Choices.

Except it's the wife that was making out with some guy at a bar. Not Op. The wife cheated.

Not all men want other women.

Josette77 · 23/05/2024 00:27

Op what does your wife do all day? Is she bored? Lonely? Why doesn't she work?

Also just pay someone to finish those chores. She's told you it's frustrating. You have money. Just finish them.

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