Divorce and finances, views

[Notsurewhatiswhat]

Hi All

New to posting but read several threads with interest, appreciating both the impartial views on divorce and those that lean a particular way. I was interested in people’s views on my particular situation as it is good to see the views of others that aren’t involved.

My OH and I separated at Christmas 2021. We have the decree nisi but want to sort finances before the final step.

I’ll keep this as short as I can.

We have 2 children aged 9 and 7. When we split up, we alternated weeks at the house, doing all child care and school runs when it was our week and staying elsewhere when it was not. She stayed at a friend’s empty flat and I moved between a friend and my parents. After 6 months her arrangement was no longer possible. I agreed that as a temporary measure that she could stay at the house and I would have the kids every weekend and half of all holidays. This has now been the status quo for almost 2 years as she refuses to stay at her mother’s. I know that her mother is relieved at this as my OH is hard work, but the option is available.

I’m not happy being just a weekend Dad but to avoid arguments I’ve maintained it, despite each weekend being a 300 mile trip (over 16,000 miles last year). On a handful of occasions she has agreed to do a 20 mile round trip to make my journey easier but that is no longer a battle worth having.

I work from the family home on a Friday as it is near the school. I pay half of the bills and last weekend she asked if I could work elsewhere. I’m not happy with this as she is starting to treat it as though it is all hers. It is our main asset and it is falling into disrepair. I want to sell but need 2 weeks to get it back into a sellable condition. She promises to try to arrange something and then changes her mind at the last minute.

Background to finances
We bought our first flat together in 2011 and her Dad gave her a £100k deposit. In 2012 we married. Over the years he has given more so it is just under £250k, which is essentially an early inheritance as he has 2 children similar in age to ours, so they will receive everything else. We did a deed of trust in 2014 stating that she would get the first £250k if we ever split up. In 2015 we had our first child. In 2020 we moved to a new house.

We now have about £600k in equity in the house. She kept our savings (about 10k) as it was in her account, and we both have pensions, hers is about 50k and mine is about 280k. I’ve been paying into my pension for 26 yrs and she has done half that. There is a 5 year age gap between us but she didn’t start work until 27 as her dad paid her to study.

During our time together, I transferred all my salary to her bar £50 for ad hoc expenses. I have always earned about £300 a month more than her until 2 months before we separated when it jumped to £1200 difference. She has never been the main carer with us both sharing childcare equally (her doing drop offs and me doing pick ups). I did the cooking, shopping, dressing and bedtimes, before eventually also doing drop offs as she found it too stressful.

We have been trying to come to an agreement on financials. We have tried one mediation which was a waste of time. I suggested that she keeps the first £250k and her pension, I keep my pension and we split the remaining equity 50-50. I explained that ideally I need £180k but understood that would only be achievable if the house sold for what we hoped would be the minimal. I also said that if it sold for more I would cap it at £180k.

If there was enough for me to get my ideal £180k, this would give her £430k and her pension (£480k total), I would have £180k and my pension (£460k). This would considerably reduce her mortgage requirements in comparison with me, where the majority of my share I could potentially never see. If I didn’t live to see it, it would go to the children as inheritance.

I think this is fair but she is fixated on being mortgage free and informed me last weekend that she should get the first £250k, and the rest would be split 50-50, so she would walk away with half my pension, or I protect that and end up with insufficient deposit to buy.

Interested in people’s thoughts. She is of the opinion that no court would think she is being unreasonable. I think otherwise and so does everyone that knows me. However, I appreciate that my friends and family will always side with me, especially when they all think she is walking all over me. Interested in views from impartial people.

For info, there has been no violence or abuse in or outside of the relationship.

You need to get proper legal advice as to where you stand, as your situation is complex. I would imagine though, she would be entitled to some of your pension, possibly half - you need to speak to a lawyer.

I’m with you. You need to be able to house yourself and accommodate the children. You are being more than reasonable. Good luck with it all.

Hmm you agreed that the 250k would be excluded, so taking that out of the equation generally pensions would be added together and then shared 50/50.

So 175k each from the house equity (if it sells for that much) minus selling fees etc. Plus 5k from savings to you. Could be 180k to you.

But then pensions added together - 330k. You'd have to transfer her 115k of yours.

Sorry, can't comment on likely outcome of financial split but she's taking the piss with the living arrangements. Move back in, it might help focus her mind on an agreement.

I think a court is more likely to agree with her unfortunately.

What she is proposing is to remove the £250k legally ringfenced and then split 50/50.

While what you are proposing might seem more fair, and she sounds like she's being unreasonable about living arrangements and the children, financially what you're proposing pretty much ignores the inheritance arrangement and just splits what you have currently.

Inheritance can be considered marital assets if comingled for a considerable period of time but that seems unlikely to fly in light of the document you've described.

I think the deed of trust is a bit of a red herring in relation to the division of assets for the divorce - it's in no way comparable to a prenup and it doesn't mean she's entitled to more because of it. So what I'd expect happen is that the court takes it into consideration and respects it (i.e. makes sure she gets at least 250k from the house equity). But that's pretty much a given anyway, so they can just chop the whole lot down the middle and the deed is still observed. Which is basically what you're proposing anyway.

She wants to have her cake and eat it - i.e. her house deposit off limits, while your entire pension (most of which from before you were together by the sound of it) shared out. In most circumstance it does seem really unfair that pension entitlements earned before the relationship started put in the divorce pot. Especially when she was so late to get into work and start her pension.

I think you are right to push for what you're proposing, which seems pretty fair. However, the court also has to make sure the children are adequately provisioned for in respect of accommodation with the primary carer. Given the current contact 'arrangements' they might favour awarding her a higher proportion of the house equity anyway. Maybe the court will award you 50/50 shared care if you push for it, but as the current contact has been ongoing for quite a while they may stick to the status quo - especially if she pushes for it.

All in all, I think if I was in your position I'd strongly consider moving back into the home at this point. At least for 50% of the time, so you can re establish the original contact pattern. If she really doesn't like that she can always find somewhere else to stay on the week that you're there.

Just noticed that you made the deed after you were already married, which I think is a bit odd/pointless. Even if the deed were made before you married the it would be superseded upon marriage by the Matrimonial Causes Act. So the deed is effectively worthless in the scheme of things. You could point that out to her and say that if she comes after your pension you'll go after her house deposit!

Why is her pension so low? Did she stay at home with the children for a few years or work part-time?

Did she take maternity leave?

you agreed to the set aside her deposit. The starting point for splitting the rest of your assets is 50:50. You will need a good argument to justify any other split.

expecting either of you to impose on friends and relatives for housing is ridiculous. You are adults with children. You need to get your house sold and found affordable housing for both of you in close proximity so you can share custody.

How does someone get 50% of your pension? Sorry I literally had no idea this was the case. I though pensions belonged to individuals and essentially died with them and were non transferable

It can be tricky and expensive to split a pension. I ended up giving my XH cash in exchange for keeping my pension in one piece. It was cheaper in the long run which was better for both of us and gave him immediate liquidity which he valued at the time. He could have invested that cash in a private pension of his own, but I know he used it for more immediate concerns.

I would move back into the house, I think you're in danger of her being considered primary parent and all that comes with that because you've tried to be accommodating but she's just taking advantage now.

It may well focus her mind on getting the house sold & an agreement made. FWIW I think your proposal sounds reasonable.

It doesn't seem unreasonable as a starting point when you go into court/mediation. You have written about agreeing to set aside the deposit or the other monies gifted by her dad but I missed any info on what, if any has been legally protected or not.

It doesn't matter what anyone may think is fair. Division of assets on divorce is based on needs. Needs are assessed by reference to the factors listed in section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act. These include current earnings, earning potential, any time taken off work to care for children, etc. the starting point is a 50/50 division of all assets (including pensions) and if both parties' needs can be met that way then that's it. If one party, often the wife who may have taken a career break or worked part time when children are young doesn't earn enough to house themself with a 50/50 split of capital, 50/50 can be departed from. It sounds as though you now earn quite a bit more than your wife, so it may be the case that your needs are less than hers.

You need to speak to a family lawyer. I'm not sure about this but I don't think the deed of trust is relevant since you are married and it relates to your family home, not a separate asset and that property is therefore "commingled" in the marital finances.

As part of the divorce process, a pension sharing order is produced, which is sent to the pension company, who then divide the pension according to the order. A pension is seen as part of the assets of the marriage.

I think you should move back in to the family home. I’m not surprised that your ex is dragging her heels wrt the financial situation. She has a great set up!

Just get legal advice. The sums you’re talking about are worth it. You only get to do this once, so get it right first time.

Please get legal advice as soon as you can. Main aim will be that you both end up with enough to house your children. As others have said I think you need to ensure you have the children 50% of the time again.
She needs to realise the house is a joint asset, moving back in might get her to focus a bit more and get things moving. The process can be slow anyway so get things going asap.

Get advice but your proposal sounds fair.

I'd recommend speaking to a solicitor as well - can you access some advice through your employee assistance programme? Might be worth checking as it gave me some piece of mind at the time.

She took a years maternity for each. I think the first 9 months on full pay.

I rearranged my working hours so that I was home between 3:30 and 4 to relieve her. From arrival home I did everything, nappies, dinner, bedtime etc.

When they went to school and nursery, she did drop off and I did pick up. In between 3:30 school pick up and 6pm nursery pick up, I cared for my daughter and prepared dinner, which I served up when I got back from nursery.

We moved house during lockdown, so both worked from home. Initially I did drop off and she did pick up because she finished at 3pm. After a short period this was too stressful for her so I ended up doing both.

I did quite a bit of DIY on the new house. At this time she took over evening childcare, cooking and bedtime routine. I did mornings, waking them, dressing, breakfast and all school runs. I had my shower whilst they ate breakfast. After a month of that I took over bedtime as she again found that too stressful.

Nobody who knows us would ever consider her the primary care giver during our time together.

During her second maternity leave she did get a promotion at work and that was a part time role (4 days over 5). She changed this to Monday to Thursday so that she had Friday to herself. When we moved house she changed back to 9-3, but certainly not for childcare reasons.

I also did all the food shopping, usually at 10pm when I had finished house stuff for the weekend.

So, I guess I’m trying to say that she never sacrificed a career for child care purposes.

I was worried at first that this was part of a plan to make her appear the primary carer and manipulate how her involvement with the kids looks. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, but with my working week and having the kids every weekend I haven’t had the time to take a breath.

When we agreed the deed of trust, children were not on the radar as she didn’t want them. The solicitor did advise that it didn’t offer that much protection but it is something I’d like to honour, but at the same time I don’t want it to affect my ability to have my children 50-50.

She has used the argument that now going 50-50 would destabilise the kids, but she didn’t say that when she wanted to change the original arrangement. She loves the current arrangement as it gives her every weekend to herself.

I have emails to evidence that it was a temporary arrangement to accommodate her for a while, but I can’t stand back and let her create an artificial picture of how our time and childcare arrangements have been prior to this.

Update

Received an email today from her solicitor saying ex changed locks and alarm code because I refused to work elsewhere on a Friday. Cited invasion of privacy because I went to the en-suite bathroom to find the source of a leak. Something she asked me to do a few weeks ago but it had got significantly worse. Found the issue and messaged her to let her know, telling her to put a towel over it to reduce the water that could get through until I could fix it. Even cleaned the shower drain for her 🤷‍♂️

Can she do this? I’d just spent all day drafting an email explaining my intention to move back in for alternate weeks. Only reason I didn’t hit send was because I wanted someone else to read it first.

Yes, she can change the locks. But she can't deny you access to your own property. You can gain entry however you need to, although it might not look to good to use force! Maybe have to get a locksmith out, and then just sit inside with the alarm going off until she comes back. Send her that email once you're safely inside. And make sure to stay calm to avoid getting arrested because the easiest way for the police to diffuse anything that looks like a developing domestic situation is to do that.

You shouldn't be asking mumsnet you should be getting proper legal advice. When I got divorced I made damned sure all my assets were protected. He got not no legal advice he was in such a hurry to go off with OW that he lost out big time. I cant tell you how much he regrets it now but you know...tough.
Get proper legal advice. I cant say this too many times.

This happens when you divorce. The two pensions' values are listed side by side and it is divided to make an equal provision for your both going forward.