I might have helped dh make the wrong decision. confused. please talk to to me... <long>

[ratbunny]

there are loads of posts relating to this, but I have been unhappy in our relationship for a long while. In brief - we moved for dh's work, he works long hours (not as long as some I know, but long for me) meaning he doesnt see ds for more than 30 mins a day (if we are lucky), we had to cancel a holiday as he was called into work, I feel like he wants the weekends for himself and that he doesnt want to spend time as a family. the end result is that I am VERY unhappy.
we went away for a few days round friends, and the same things are happening again - he hardly helped out with ds for the first few days, left me wheeling a screaming ds round a site and eventually going home alone while he took photos, ds was really whingy in the night and dh got rather arsey to us both about it.
I think we entered the break with different expectations - he wanted time to relax and do his own thing, and I wanted us to be together as a family.
we had a discussion this evening and dh concluded that we are not happy together, regardless of his working hours, and that we should split up. I have been entertaining the idea myself for a while now, but now the decision has been made, I am not sure it is the right one.
I dont know what I want, or what to do.
please someone talk to me.

slim - that was kind of like what just happened with us more or less. I said I felt like I was alone anyway, then he took it to the next step. but now I feel so sad for ds.

just had a chat to dh, and he has agreed to go to relate. I think he sees it as me being demanding towards him and his hobbies, while I see it that he isnt living with us as a family (does that make sense? as someone said - he is still living like he is childless)
but I am worried as I tend to clam up in arguments. I hate confrontation, and tend to see things from the other persons point of view. I am scared this will all end up with me agreeing that I ask too much of him and not addressing the needs of our family.

Oh I really feel for you.

You are both entrenched in your positions.
You are asking too much of him if you want him to give up his hobbies. He does need downtime. We all do.

He's just got to understand that you feel the same. Only your "me" time you happily sacrifice at the moment so that you can have family time. He should at least recognize that.

Relate will help. Your are in a classic situation. They have seen it time and over and will guide you.

The other thing we discussed with DH was what being married meant.

We both agreed that we should not wave the threat of separation unless we really meant it.
If after lots of soul searching you decide individually that is what is best.

One has to reach that point of selfishness and be honest about it.

If he sincerely thinks his freedom and comfort is rated above making efforts to save his marriage and his relationship with a child he chose to have, then what can I say? You will be better off without him.

It's too easy to just say I'm unhappy I want out. It prevents any serious discussion. It's just a way to exonerate yourself if you can't look deep down into your motives.

Excellent advice from slim22. I am relieved for you, RB, that he wants to go to relate. Sincerely hopes it will help you all.

Ratbunny, I hope that you and your dh work things out.

I really needed to read this thread as things are difficult at the moment between dp and me. Thankyou Flum and slim for your words of advice.

Take care ladies.

I'm quite old school regarding marriage: you don't just give up for comfort.
Some have the opposite view: You don't just stay for comfort.

Both are valid. As long as partners are honest with themselves and talk it through between them even if that might hurt.

Can you get away somewhere on your own. No kid. Be the old you for a bit.

Do you have a proper dinner most nights at a table, with wine, and make-up and perfume on and the lights low so you can't see the (laundry basket and lego)? I think that helps a lot to avoid the feeling of being only a Mum and him seeing you that way.

slim - you are so right - I used to go to martial arts on a saturday but happily gave it up when dh said it interefered with saturdays too much (the class was right in the middle of the day).

sorry, this is just me writing to get it off my chest now.
I am here cos I went to bed and couldnt sleep - I felt so angry towards dh (this hasnt dissipated since we cancelled our holiday). I just feel like he wants (and gets) so much for himself - the latest thing he wants is a motorbike! - when I dont do it for myself. myabe I should, but the only things I want involve 'doing' things (like travel, days out, active things), and we dont have time for that. I can only give so much, and I feel like I have reached breaking point.

now I dont know what to do.
I didnt manage to make an appointment at relate as they were closed, and now dh says dont bother. he says he will move out, and all I can think is that hopefully he will miss us.
Its funny - to me this argument was about something to work on, to be more of a family. to him it has a totally different meaning, and he thinks we are totally incompatible and cant be bothered anymore.

ratbunny I know how you feel and I really hope things work out for you, going to relate is a really good step and the first few sessions may be very difficult, god knows I've been there, dh and I are currently trying to work things out after he walked out almost 6mths ago for various reasons, he'd even started divorce and I'd signed the papers but now we are doing couple counselling on the level of working out our issues and he talks now about when he comes home and not if.

having a children changes the dynamics of every relationship some people weather it better than others, you lose sight of each other and focus on your little one (which isn't a bad thing) priorities change and so does your lifestyle. And like Slim said its so much easier to walk away when you are unhappy than to stay and work it out, just hope everything works out.

Relate do some really good books, one i got was I love you but i'm not in love with you by Andrew Marshall, really good

Oh Im so sorry to hear this.
Bumping for those who've been there before and can help.....

Have you been arguing a lot lately or are you just ignoring eachother?

Oh, Ratbunny, I'm so sorry. I don't know what to say now, except do you think it's time to work on you rather than him? You can't change his mind although, hopefully, he will miss you, as you say.
I wonder if it isn't time to start working out what you need and deserve, what your dc needs and deserves, and whether or not dh is capable of delivering. It isn't all about love. There has to be kindness, liking and respect, too.

Yes littlewoman you are right!
Kindness and respect for you and his child FGS!

What an immature thing to do!
Listen, you need to start preparing yourself for the fact that he may not come back.
And also that if he does miss you and even comes back begging you'll keep a level head and explain in no uncertain terms that he has breached your trust and let his child down.

Any family or frind in RL that can mediate? (well if there is someone you both love and trust to open up to, otherwise leave them well out of it)

thank everyone for your support. I am rather burying my head in the sad. It feels so out of the blue, and I just expect him to go away for a bitm then come back. you are right, I DO need to prepare myself for the fact that he might not.

well this morning I reitereated that I dont want him to go and that we can work things out. He came back with how when he goes on his computer or gts his camera out I make him feel guilty.
I guess I have given him a hard time about it, but thats cos I always felt like I battled with him to spend time with us not doing his hobbies, especially when he was always working so late. he used to spend all morning on his computer before going to work, then not even see s in the evening cos he got back from work late. then, at the weekend, we would go out as a family and he would bugger off taking photos, leaving me with s just like I am every week day. See any of my previous posts about how he does bugger all round the house, and how I feel like I compete with his work.
so now I think he is being a selfish git, and by moving out he will have time for his hobbies AND still get to see s.
there's no winning really.

but now I am also scared - he will have all the time he wants to go out etc, and once again it's ME who will not be able to go to sports clubs etc, and I dont have any single friends to go out with either - everyone I know has young kids / babies. I think - how CAN I move on when I dont get time for myself?

and to answer slim - dh has been spending a lot of time on his hobbies and ignoring me and ds recently, and that has led to lots of arguments.

Dh did the hobbies thing when ds was born. He pursued a hobby every weekend leaving me isolated and alone. It very nearly destroyed our marriage. Eventually I said that I could not go on in this way any longer and I was more lonely than I had ever been in my life. He was shocked and I realised that he really had no clue how isolating the entire experience was. I told him that of course he was entitled to pursue his hobbies but for every hour he did something, I had to have a corresponding hour. We soon ended up doing more family things as dh did not like to be alone too much with ds.

Does he really understand your position? If not, can you talk? If he does not want to talk and just intends leaving, then perhaps you should discuss contact details with him. Maybe he can have ds Sat and you Sun so you both get some down time at the weekend. Perhaps having to spend an entire day alone with ds will either (a) improve their bond or (b) make him realise how bl*&y hard work it is and that you really were not going on about nothing.

However, I also agree that you need to prepare yourseslf for the prospect that he might not come back.

thanks for all of your advice and support

I have been talking to a rl friend about this. dh wans ds every weekend (ds is young and I work 2 days a week, so thats not too much of an issue - maybe 3 in 4 weekends?). either he will have to give up his hobbies to look after ds from sat til sunday. OR (which worries me) dh will carry on his hobbies and ignore ds's needs.

I am unsure whether he realises how isolated i feel while he is off doing stuff.

I am booking a session at relate, either for both of us or just for me. Its a step.

It's very hard to prepare yourself for the fact that he may not come back, especially if you have been together for a long while, because you really can't imagine that they WON'T come back. It almost like you belong together. But sometimes they don't, sadly. So if you can start to look at yourself as an individual already, and focus your aims on you and your ds, rather than doing things in the hopes he will change his mind, it will help incase he does decide to stay away.
For example, don't get your hair and nails done in the hope that he will see how gorgeous you really are, do it because you are going to need all the confidence you can get for facing the world alone (IYSWIM). That way, you are prepared for the worst and really strengthened in your appreciation of your own worthwhileness, and if he comes back it's a bonus - but you are no longer dependent on him.

Wishing you all the best, Ratbunny.

GooseyLoosey has a very good point with alternate days on weekends.

I think it will be a total shock for him to spend a whole day as sole carer for DS. That might wake him up to the fact that it's non stop and you have zero downtime.

Why don't you agree to trial separation on the condition that he spends a full day every weekend with DS.
For DS's sake of course but also to give you some leisure time but you'll never admit to that of course!

little woman - tbh I am not even sure I want him back - not with things as they are. I want to work on it - to work out a compromise so we can stay happy as we often are together, but without the resentment on both sides.

slim - you have loads of good advice! absolutely right about how it would shock him to look after ds for 2 full days. but I would be tempted to say sat morning til sunday morning, so I can have a night off!!

Sorry I have only had time to read the OP, but my question is this Ratbunny:

Where does your ds enter into your dp's plan for his new life if you DO go your separate ways.

Is he planning to be involved?
Does he realise that this means time with your ds all by himself where he is primarily responsible for ds?
Does he plan to abandon your ds just because the two of you are no longer together.

I would be very clear with dp that EVEN IF THE relationship ends with you, he MUST always be available for ds, so your lives can never be completely separate.

I do know of relationships that have run their course where the father has become more involved with the children and where both parents are then free to lead their own lives, but they are unfortunately not the norm.

The two of you need to make the right decision for yourselves, but as you know the wellbeing of your ds should be forefront in BOTH of your minds (meaning dp too) if you decide to split.

Sorry if I have not been particularly helpful and I am so sorry to hear about your situation.

How are you holding on.

See this thread.

You are not alone

here

thanks slim
dh and I sat down for a long and calm chat last night. we talked about loads of things to do with our relationship, and I think the issue is really that we are not spending time as a couple. perhaps I wouldnt resent his long hours and hobbies if we still spent time together.
when I think back, it's really when we had ds that problems really started. and since then I can count on 1 hand the number of times we have been out together as just us.
I still want family time, but we tend to 'be' with ds rather than each other.
so he is staying for the time being, but we have loads to work on, and he is coming to relate with me. there are still issues though - we are planning on going to the zoo tomorrow, and we have had a short discussion about him taking his camera. and neither of us were very happy...
but we are friends again
but now I think we can work through it..

One step at a time. Be patient with each other.

Find a good babysitter. I know they are not cheap but one evening or saturday afternoon just the 2 of you, once in a while is money really really well spent at this stage in your relationship.

And it's give and take. Why are you so rigid about the camera. You ARE having a family day out aren't you?

Only just read this - and it sounds so familar.

I read a book which really helped me - one section was about relationships and said that your partner should be your best friend and that you should treat him like one. That really struck a chord with me and once i statrted being 'nicer' to h we started to get on better.

Little things like thinking about him (making cups of tea, a meal he likes, arranging something just for him.....). Show him how its done first - what would you like him to do for you? One thing i did was to run a bath for h and light some candles, poured him a glass of wine and let him have a bath in peace. It soon was my turn .

You cant 'change' him but if you show him how it can be i am sure he will soon learn.

I agree about having some time for you as a couple too.

Could you make some sort of rules? Each have some 'you' time some couple time and some family time.

Make a list of places to go as a family and say once a month make it your outing.

When things dont go to plan rather than looking for whos fault it is try and forget it and make more effort in the future.

You seem to still have some resentment for the holiday (which is understandable) but to move forward you must now make sure it will not happen again.

Dont make everything a competion either - be kind to each other and yourselves - you will make mistakes - but if you both threaten to throw the towel in at the first problem you will both be too scared to really open up to how you are both feeling. You need to both make a commitment to really give this your best shot.

If you can do this for yourself he will either see what a fantastic person you really are and want to give it a try or still leave in which case you will know you have done everything you can and will know it really was not meant to be.

Good luck and i hope it works out for you.

I thought I would carry on this post rather than start a new one.
We went to Relate and it wasnt really helpful tbh. We are on a waiting list now.
But we became friends again, got babysitters and went out, started having better sex etc. I thought things were going pretty well and we were on the mend.
I recently went away with friends for a weekend (this has been booked for a while - since the last holiday fell through). I called him every day, and he seemed fine.
But when we got home he said he wanted a trial separation. Just when I thought everything was on the mend!!!!
He claims our sex life is still rubbish, our life is twee, I dont do things anymore, I have too many demands of him to do things as a family.
It seems to me like there is no point in carrying on with him anymore. I thought things were improving, but in his eyes they werent. Basically he wants to be free to do his own stuff (imo) and doing stuff with ds when it suits him.
I told him if he wants a trial separation then he can go, and he wont be coming back. If he goes away, spends his time doing HIS stuff, no pressure to join in the family etc, how can coming back seem better?
I told him he can go off, find someone to have great sex with daily, see ds once a week, do all of his hobbies when he wants, and basically be single again. Meanwhile me and ds will struggle financially, I wont go out as we left my friends when we moved here.
Then he said, maybe we can work on it.

But really I dont know if I can be bothered anymore. How can me and ds compete against freedom? How will I ever know if things are working, if they seem ok to me, but are crap to him?

any advice?