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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it me or him who is unusual

39 replies

Oldsadmum · 25/04/2024 12:27

This is my first post - and I'm honestly not sure if I'm losing my mind, so please bear with me and be gentle. I am truly incredibly upset, perhaps wrongly.
I have been with my husband for over 30 years. We have two daughters together and in many ways a good life. But we have reached a crisis point. Or rather, I have.
During our whole relationship, for context, we have had problems because he tells lies. Not necessarily big lies, just a lot of lies all the time, even about small stupid things that don't matter. He says he doesn't lie about any big things, so doesn't see the issue really. Although obviously that is his definition of big things, certainly not mine, and as he lies, who knows if it's true? His lies have affected his career as well as his marriage.
He has various mental health issues, which are mainly under control now because he is on antidepressants. Apparently the lying started before I knew him, he remembers lying a lot as a child. He lies to everyone, not just me.

The help I need is to know whether I'm over-reacting to our latest problem. When my children were small, over a decade ago, I came to realise that my husband was watching a lot of porn. By a lot, I mean every day, sometimes multiple times. Not only was he watching it, but he was also watching porn instead of spending time with me and our children. He had a senior job and would work long hours with a lot of extra hours at home in the evening- he rarely if ever spent an evening with me.

When I discovered his porn habit I checked his laptop and it turned out when he had been telling me that he couldn't help put the children to bed because he was working, or couldn't spend time with me because he was working he was actually watching porn. It also wasn't strictly just porn sites, but also sites where there was potential to chat with the women if you paid. I found no evidence he'd done that. This caused a lot of upset and he agreed that he wouldn't look at porn any more. Not so much because I had an issue with porn (which I didn't then - I've kind of changed that view lately after a few documentaries I've watched about the way women are treated, but I'm not strictly anti porn) but because it was replacing our relationship. I accepted that and basically never checked his internet history again.

About two months ago I walked into my husband's office during the work day (he works from home one day a week) and something about the way he covered something up caught my eye. I asked him what he was hiding and he said it was nothing. I asked him if he was lying to me and he said "I'm not lying to you". I said I felt like he was gaslighting me and he swore he was not gaslighting me. I felt uncomfortable, but I left the room.

About 30 seconds later instead of sighing and ignoring my instinct that he was lying to me like I usually do, I went back into the room and - surprise, he tries to hide his tablet but he's looking at porn again.

To cut a long story short, it turns out he's been doing this again for at least the last five years. He told me it was once a week, which actually I would not have really cared about other than the lying part, but when I looked at his internet history it was every day, sometimes more than once. Again sometimes at times when he was 'working' in the evenings. Also when he slept in the spare room after disagreements that I'm now wondering if he was deliberately starting so he could go in there and watch porn.

This time it's also mainly on Twitter rather than porn sites and looking at the videos there are a percentage of what he's watched which are made by escorts touting for business or women from onlyfans. I don't know if he clicked through or interacted. His internet history also has searches for "have an affair" and strip clubs and brothels near his office. He says he didn't click through or visit them and says he'd never search for that stuff so he doesn't know how it's in his history. Obviously this is bullshit. I can't tell from the data I saw how far this went, because most of it he has deleted. Some of what he watched is pretty extreme. Not illegal, but slightly unusual by general standards - I am not a prude and was aware of his prefs around some of this stuff - was happy to explore it with him when we were still having a normal sex life, although it's really not my thing.

He says the reason he was looking at porn is because we don't have sex much any more. This is true this time (although not the first time) - we don't, about five years ago I caught him in a lie that made me distrust whether he is sleeping with other people/escorts (I have no hard evidence he was so had to leave it there, with a suspicion level that I couldn't get comfortable with) and so I stopped wanting to have sex with him. We probably only had sex fortnightly. When we did, he often couldn't orgasm anyway which he blamed on his antidepressants. Ironically I thought they had taken away his sex drive - turns out it was just because he was watching porn every day and was more interested in that than in me. He still had a sex life and wanted it, it just didn't include me.

About two weeks before I discovered this we had had a conversation about his lying where he told me emphatically he never lies to me about big stuff and specifically mentioned that he no longer looks at porn, never has affairs etc. Unfortunately, he is a very good liar. He seems completely believable when he lies and I think I believed him although I knew I was stupid to. If you met him you'd think he was a lovely guy and very charming. He has always got away with lying because he is charming and attractive and a very good liar.

To cut a long story short, he says I'm abnormal at being upset about this and has been pretty horrible to me about it - even when I'm crying. He seems more angry than contrite. He says he shouldn't have lied, but all men watch porn and I'm the unusual one being upset about this. He says as far as he's concerned it causes no harm and he enjoys it and he thinks I'm essentially unreasonable not wanting him to do it which is why he did and lied about it. He also says he's sick of talking about it.
I think for me the issue is that it's so frequent and also it seems that he has chosen ways to view it that would allow interaction if you wanted it. He also says "I'm not even on Tinder" as if that's some great moral accomplishment. When I replied 'because you're married' he said 'most people are on it' and when pushed said "fine, maybe not most people who are married". Frankly I think he has a lot of issues, even when we are out he regularly stares at other women in front of me. I presume he's addicted to porn and I guess reading this back he's definitely not attracted to me any more.

I suppose I just want perspectives on whether I'm being crazy and unreasonable as my husband says. I don't know how to move forward with this. I have been with him since I was a teenager and I feel like I'm ripping the whole family apart if I leave him over what he sees as trivial. I think about what it will be like at my daughters' weddings and the plans we had for retirement and our future grandchildren and it just breaks my heart. I can't ask anyone around me for perspective because I'm embarrassed - embarrassed by what he's doing and by my stupidity for not leaving him sooner.

Stupidly, and I know I'm an idiot- trust me I feel bad enough about myself - I still love him enormously despite all this. I wish I didn't. We have spent our whole lives together and often it was good as long as I buried my head a bit about the lying. I'm also in my fifties and I can't face the thought of having to date etc. and honestly, I think I'd find it very hard to find someone interested now. I was attractive when younger but I'm definitely not now.

OP posts:
RollnRock · 25/04/2024 13:31

Your husband is not normal to spend every evening watching porn instead of helping to look after his children.
It sounds like he has an addiction.
As he doesn't see any issue with his behaviour this will not change.
You and your children deserve better.

Octavia64 · 25/04/2024 13:35

You are normal.

It's perfectly reasonable not to want sex with a man who is clearly addicted to porn, quite possibly having an or multiple affairs and is lying to you.

You just need to decide what to do about it.

Pinkbonbon · 25/04/2024 13:36

You do know it's OK to be single right?

He sounds vile op. Give yourself permission to get the fuck away from this asshole.

Ps, randomly saying 'I'm not even on tinder' out of the blue, means he is on tinder. Or similar. Or thinking about it.

I mean the use of the word 'even' too. Implying it wouldn't even be a big deal if he was. What a fucker he is.

Get him gone. Enough is enough.
You've many years ahead of you op. Don't waste it with this loser. No more circular, headfucking conversations. Just get yourself a bloody good divorce solicitor and get out.

Ladyj84 · 25/04/2024 13:37

I wouldn't be with a man into porn, if a guy needs something else other than me then bye bye

vincettenoir · 25/04/2024 13:47

The lying and porn are compulsive behaviours (I imagine he has some others too). If he was in a place where he understood that this was not ok then he could work on this, perhaps.

It's really shitty that he's trying to pretend that this is your problem and not his. Sorry you are having to deal with this.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 25/04/2024 13:51

He is choosing pawn over his wife and children. His behaviour is seriously messed up, he is an addict and like all addicts his addiction matters more than the people in his life. He is a shitty husband and a shitty father. Id want to get my kids out of that environment and away from his addiction and the associated behaviour. He's not normal at all.

KrisTheGardener · 25/04/2024 13:52

You are normal. Someone I know broke up with a man over something like this. It wouldn't be okay in my marriage either.

Ofcourseshecan · 25/04/2024 13:55

Either the lying or the porn addiction alone would kill my love for him. Those two together would make life with him unbearable, to me.

He spends his time watching porn instead of caring for his children or enjoying time with you or, now, even doing the work he's paid for. And lying is so disrespectful, it's destabilising to a relationship. You can't trust a word he says.

He's a dead loss, OP. He's far too lucky, still having your love. He would make my skin crawl, and I would leave him.

Nextbitoflife · 25/04/2024 13:58

Just no. And don’t let him convince you it’s because of something you are doing/ not doing. He has a problem that unless he takes responsibility for the impact it is having on your marriage won’t go away. I’ve also shifted my views about porn over the years and am probably less ok with it than I was- but anyway there is a huge difference between it being part of your relationship that you discuss and sometimes enjoy together than this massive ongoing lie.

Wasityoubecayse · 25/04/2024 13:59

Hello love!

From what you described you are in a l9ng time relationship with someone who has sociopathic tendencies but is non violent and has some support on managing any disordered thought processes as they occur? Your not crazy but if the assessment ab9ve that I have had about my ex you might be able to work through this if you get tailored support for spouses of individuals like this?

Nicebloomers · 25/04/2024 14:03

He’s minimising his lies and behaviour because he’s an addict. I think your instincts about the use of sex workers before was probably spot on. Same with instigating arguments do he can slope off to the spare room for more porn. He sounds awful and I wouldn’t trust a word he says. I’d rather be on my own than with this bullshitter.

madameparis · 25/04/2024 14:18

He sounds awful @Oldsadmum it’s definitely a him problem and not a you problem.

Yes lots of men watch porn. My husband does sometimes and I have no problem with that. But if he was watching it every day, plus lying, plus dodgy stuff in his search history, plus neglecting spending time with me and our children to watch porn ……. nah it would be over.

Some things you have mentioned;

  • He seems to have an unhealthy porn addiction
  • He is a compulsive lier
  • He is “horrible” to you when you are upset
  • He avoids spending time with you and the children
  • He has likely slept with sex workers
  • He darvos and gaslights you to make you think you are being the unreasonable one in the situation!

Can you write us a list of positive things about your relationship? What positives does he bring to your life? What things do you love about him?

Do you truly love things about him - or is it just a codependent situation. As you have been together since you were young? With a fear of being alone?

madameparis · 25/04/2024 14:20

And your username @Oldsadmum makes me so sad for you. You sound like your confidence has been truly broken by him. I’m “old” but please don’t define yourself by that - there is so much more to you than that 💐

Yankeescot · 25/04/2024 14:31

OP, This sounds like an exact description of my ex-husband. It wore me the hell down. The constant lying about everything, even little things that don't matter. The porn addiction, gaslighting, cheating etc.

Your Husband is most likely engaging with lots of different women in real time, either online or in person. And he's so firmly entrenched in lying about everything since he's been a little boy, he'll never be able to break out of that. I really feel for you as I've been there. Totally soul destroying.

You deserve so much more than to live like this. I divorced mine after 8 years. There is a better life out there waiting for you!

Wasityoubecayse · 25/04/2024 14:37

He sounds like a senior exec whose probably well liked and even very attractive. Completely might be wr9ng. But if he is and he is in the most competitive phase of his career he will be unbearable on so many levels for the next decade I would assess your position. 8f you were good looking once you can be again you need to get some power back. If it was me I would leave as I need honest respect and decency you need to dec8de what your bott9m line is.

Changingplace · 25/04/2024 14:56

He sounds utterly vile, he lies, he prioritises porn over you & your family and then tries to make you feel you’re the one with the issue!!

The Tinder comment for me is the worst, what a completely weird thing to say??! I bet he has been in the past, no wonder you don’t want to have sex with him, the thought of him makes my skin crawl.

You’d be so much happier on your own, he’s not bringing any happiness to your life is he?

madameparis · 25/04/2024 14:56

I forgot to say - please go get a STI check if you think there is any chance he’s slept with a sex worker.

OverTheCountryClub · 25/04/2024 15:02

You need to stop trusting what he says and look at what he does. Words are cheap. He watches porn regularly. He wants to / is actively seeking / possibly having an affair. He is / was / is planning to be on dating sites. He shouts at you, makes you feel bad, lies to you and has demonstrated time and time again that he prioritises his wants over your family. The only choice here is whether you are going to accept him as he is (he won't change) or leave.

Xenoi24 · 25/04/2024 15:05

To cut a long story short, he says I'm abnormal at being upset about this and

You are not remotely abnormal to be upset about any of this.

He is full of shit.

There are few women aline who would be ok with this.

And if they were, I'd imagine it would be because they saw their marriage purely as a financial transaction, and/or were unfaithful themselves.

I also think there are too many clues to suggest he's used sex workers or cheated for it to be unlikely.

MMmomDD · 25/04/2024 15:12

@Oldsadmum - i get the fear of divorce in your 50s. Tbh some of my friends in this age group who divorced have ended up even more unhappy than they had been.

However - your relationship is a disaster right now. You don’t have sex. You are obsessively policing his porn/masturbation. You both are resenting each other.

If nothing changes - you two will get more and more angry and unhappy. And it’ll all fall apart anyway.

I don’t know what can change.

His lying is not going to change - maybe if he underwent extensive counselling? But by now - i don’t think he is capable to just stop it. (My guess it was a coping mechanism as a kid; and it’s now ingrained)

His porn and your broken physical relationship is important. But i am not sure how you can change that around given your history and where you are at atm.

So - I am not sure there is a solution or happy end here. And it’s not about who is ‘normal’.
Even when hundreds will tell you he is NOT - that will not make him change. Your marriage issues will stay what they are.

Realistically - your choices are - to decide what is harder or better for you.

  • Pull the plug - scary as it is….
  • Stay and try to rekindle
  • Stay and ignore the physical side. Make your relationship about everything else.
Xenoi24 · 25/04/2024 15:15

I'm also in my fifties and I can't face the thought of having to date etc. and honestly, I think I'd find it very hard to find someone interested now. I was attractive when younger but I'm definitely not now.

Why do you have to??

You don't have to date.

You're allowed to be single.

You can be so and there's nothing wrong at all with that, for as long as you want.

If he has a good job, will you not get a decent settlement.

You need to consult a good experienced divorce solicitor and probably a forensic accountant - given his lying.

Oh I know a lady who was single til her 50s after a divorce, she's not conventionally pretty or good looking but she makes an effort. She met a widowed man through his niece (she was at ceili dancing with the niece) and has had a good relationship since, for years.

My aunt, who is no spring chicken, but is outgoing and makes an effort with her appearance married a man she met at country gigs and is apparently replacing him with another man she met at them!

Not all men are looking for younger women.

But the whole thing is not obligatory anyway. You can enjoy your life without having to have a partner.

TheCultureHusks · 25/04/2024 15:16

You don’t have to start a new relationship. I wouldn’t. I’d be thinking of that cosy wee place of my own where no-one is disrespecting me daily.

I’d also have some satisfaction at the thought of him mournfully washing his own pants with half his pension left, wondering how he fucked it all up so badly.

Wotcher · 25/04/2024 15:18

Gross. No, this isn’t normal. I agree that probably most men watch porn (even those whose wives believe they don’t), but every day is a problem. Especially when it’s affecting your actual sex life and marriage.

I think the following are all abnormal and problematic:

  • watching porn every day
  • watching porn while “working”
  • failing to perform dad duties because of watching porn
  • even THINKING it’s normal for people in a relationship to be on tinder (???)
  • the lying
  • being on interactive porn websites/cam/OF
  • not caring he’s upset you

No, these things are not at all normal

MightyGoldBear · 25/04/2024 15:23

Hello op this is classic porn addiction.

You will need to seek therapy for yourself betrayal trauma therapy with a qualified therapist in this to understand the abuse that goes with it. If you're UK based check out the laurel centre.

Head over to reddit love after porn sub lots of resources and support there. You are Normal and not alone in this.

Do some reading on Omar minwhalla secret sexual basement.
The porn paradox and your brain on porn website will give you lots of insight into this addiction. The bloom website is a great betrayal trauma resource for you.

Podcasts to listen to

Choose to be
Pbse
Helping couples heal
Btr.org

Read up about it all first so you know what you are dealing with. You absolutely do not have to stay together this isn't a case of support him through his addiction. He will have to choose recovery and sobriety for himself. Get yourself support first before you make any decisions. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

LifeExperience · 25/04/2024 15:23

Porn is cheating. He is receiving sexual satisfaction from others--the definition of infidelity.

You will have to decide if you want to stay with your lying, cheating, gaslighting husband or not.

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