Am I a bad daughter?

[bad2daughter]

This happened many years ago but it frequently pops into my mind. An impending visit by my parents is causing anxiety again about.

Imo my parents weren't the best parents. I was born in the 90s. I don't have many "happy" childhood memories. I remember being belittled on an almost daily basis from my earliest memories, called "stupid", told to "shut up", "you should hear yourself, you should listen to yourself" etc. it was normal that myself and my siblings were hit with wooden spoon/plastic spoon. I also recall being choked by my mother on a couple of occasions.

I wonder sometimes if I have dramatised my own memories, like maybe it wasn't daily? Maybe I remember it all wrong and it wasn't as bad as I keep thinking?

I also remember myself to be a well behaved child. But could I have this wrong? I know I did very well at school, I was absolutely terrified of getting into trouble (probably because of home?). I didn't really do a lot of go out a lot until I rebelled around age 15/16 and left home shortly after.

Anyway. I have children myself. I was visiting my parents when my eldest was around three, I also had a new baby. My eldest was being a bit boisterous/tantrums but nothing horrendous. Obviously a lot of change with a new baby. I was just doing some time outs and more gentle methods. I'd never physically harm my kids, because of my memories of my upbringing.

My mother said to be that my son needed a good "belting" to sort him out. I calmly said that I didn't use physical punishment on my kids (I really don't think I said this in a way to make my mum feel bad I just said it like matter of factly).

My mum said red and said "I KNOW what you are getting at there!!! I KNOW what you are saying about me!!! You think you are better than me!!!" And on and on you get the idea. She told me I was a hideously naughty child and I had no idea and to "just wait" and see when my kids are older if "I'm so good" then.

She didn't really speak to me for about 9-10 months after this.

My eldest is a teenager now and such a good lad, never in any trouble and always helpful and respectful and home and at school.

I think sometimes I don't know why I ever made up with them. But I've always been so terrified of my parents, I'm terrified of falling out with them, even though I don't like them very much and I don't think they were good parents.

They are coming to visit soon. They've been okay grandparents. I don't live near them anymore and haven't for a long time so never been in the position of leaving my own children with them and don't think I would have felt comfortable to anyway, given how I feel my childhood was.

But last time they visited, they actually asked me if they were good parents, and they said they think they were! I didn't know how to answer so sort of just changed the topic quickly but I'm worried of questions like this again.

If I said I had not good memories of my childhood or answered honestly, I know my mother would fly off the handle at me again.

I just don't know what to do sometimes and don't feel like I can be honest with them or anyone else about my childhood.

Crikey OP, none of that was OK, especially the strangling. She could have killed you, even if that wasn't her immediate intention.

They're now gas-lighting you and continuing to bully you.

Personally, I think you should cancel their visit and go low to no contact.

You don't have to answer this on here, but do take a step back and be honest with yourself - what would happen if they decided to hit your kids? Do you think you'd actually stand up to them or would you be frozen with fear/try to minimise it?

I think her telling you your son deserves a good belting is a short step from her taking it on herself to do it.

If the only "good bits" were that they (presumably) fed and clothed you and let you do an activity you enjoyed, I'd say that's not a contender for a "great parent" award. That's fairly minimum level expectation for parenting.

Your parents sound abusive. Yes, smacking was more common place, but nothing like you describe. The constant name calling has never been acceptable.
As your oldest is a teen now, have you ever asked him to give his impressions of his grandparents? It's hard for you to unpick what's "normal" as you didn't know any different, but your own child has been brought up in a diferent type of household, so may well have some surprising insights.

If I ever do a PhD and pick a subject, the heroes I will study will be people like you. Circuit breakers. The women who live through abuse and manage to then go on to raise their own child without violence, trauma or abuse.

They strangled you. Let that sit for a second. Strangled a child. If you don't think about any other aspect of their behaviour, that is abusive. Scarily abusive since it's known that choking makes death from abuse something like 10 times as likely. You could have not made it.

You are a survivor and you raised a child whose life was completely different.

PPs aren't really thinking or they are justifying their own abusive pasts or presents. Smacking is sometimes 'normal' although it's never good. What your parents did exceeded that by a long way. Abusive and not normal at all.

You don't have to feel conflicted. What you do with that is up to you.

@bad2daughter they behaved dreadfully and you are clearly suffering from trauma. Pay no attention to the muppets telling you that you’re dramatic, there are some wee vipers on here who get off on kicking people when they are down! Have a think about what you want, you win control now. If them being in your life causes you more upset than happiness cut them off or have minimum phone contact

Please see about getting to therapy of some kind. This is a very difficult burden to carry on your own, you need help to untangle your confusion.

Bottom line: you were abused as a child, and this was not your fault.

I think you need to take control @bad2daughter

Forget the 'bad daughter' thing, that's not relevant or at issue.

Be clear in your own mind, you experienced abuse and trauma as a child.

Also be clear, you don't have to tell anyone, you don't have to confront them. You don't have to bring it up with them. You don't have to see them. Alternatively, you don't have to let it have any impact on your relationship with them.

It is entirely your choice about how you choose to respond to your experience of abuse and trauma. There is no right or wrong.

If you are terrified of confronting them, then don't. I think that may be the little girl in you trying to stay safe. The adult in you can listen to her and reassure her that she doesn't have to confront them.

But if you as an adult do want to, then I would get support to really prepare from a counsellor or psychotherapist.

Your parents sound toxic and abusive and are trying to make you go along with their bullshit that they weren't bad parents.

If I were you I would work through these things with a counsellor and avoid your parents as much as possible. If their visit is causing you anxiety just cancel it.

Thank you for all with the kind words. It's so hard to talk about this in real life. I feel so embarrassed and ashamed still, even at my age. I think it's because I believe it was my fault?

I haven't actually found it difficult to "break the cycle". Not that parenting isn't difficult, it is and I'm far from perfect.

But it's not difficult to be kind to my children, to treat them nicely and with respect, I just treat them how I would like to be treated. In turn we all get along nicely and have a mutual respect I guess?

I think back to a lot of the ways I was spoken to as a child, and I can't ever imagine calling my children names. I remember my dad calling me a c*nt sometimes too.

I can't even imagine calling my child stupid or telling them to shut up.

Literally in your post “try not to be judgemental”

How about people try not to abuse their kids?

And you’ve missed my point spectacularly. Even if there WERE good parts (which the OP has subsequently said there weren’t) , it doesn’t matter. It’s an irrelevance. Abuse permeates every aspect of a childhood, and the OP doesn’t need to congratulate her parents on “good bits” - though it sounds like they didn’t exist anyway.

See the stately homes threads on mumsnet. They sadly demonstrate this very, very well.

OP

It is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them this way.

your parents were abusive to you when you were growing up and they have not fundamentally changed in all the years since. They have not apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions. Cancel their upcoming visit and make no apologies for doing so. Deal with any and all fear obligation and guilt you have through therapy. Read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward and do read and or post in the current Well we took you to Stately Hones thread on these Relationships pages.

bloody hell, @TheTigerWhoCameToEatMyHusband I was born in 1969 and believe me this shit wasn't "normal" in the 70s (when most of us had been smacked at least once).

I fully accept that to you it was how life is, and I can understand that you're probably more aware of people with similar experiences than those of us who were luckier; but please don't tell @bad2daughter that it's nothing remarkable.

Hitting children with wooden spoons and choking them was not regarded as normal in the 1990s and I know as fact would have led to social services involvement if it had been reported.

Get thee on Youtube and watch Crappy Childhood Fairy a bit.

Also Therapy in a Nutshell.

Some therapy in rl might be helpful if it's possible.

It is conflicting. Sometimes you minimise it in your head and sometimes you don't. There was probably some good but also a lot of bad, you'll never know.

It bubbles up as you don't feel safe around them and a visit will set this off.

OP, I'm sorry to hear you hold such difficult memories about your childhood.

It sounds as if, underneath all the surface stuff, your parents might also know there were ways in which they failed you.

In the short-term, if you're not feeling ready and strong enough for the difficult questions they might ask, here is a strategy: turn their question from one that is about the past to one that is about the present. Things only change in the here and now.

So:

Mum: Were we good parents? Or do you think we were terrible parents?

You: Right now, I'd rather talk about the present than the past. At the moment, you being a good parent to me means_. (You may need to remind them that being a good parent to the adult you means respecting your wishes not to talk in depth about the past at this point in time. But hopefully they'll take the bait and just go with your first suggestion).

It can help to set yourself up for success by spotting the things they do right when they visit, so you can name something you're genuinely grateful for. Alternatively - if you feel a bit more bold - you could name needing some space, needing to be the one to suggest the next meeting etc.

In the long-term, good quality talking therapy may help with separation, relationships, recognising the impact of your childhood experience on your life now and hopefully some healing of the wounds.

Sadly I doubt if ops parents have any insight at all. I very much doubt that a conversation along the above lines would go at all well and such types would always say they were good parents. Also they have never apologised not have accepted any responsibility for their actions. OP would do well to cancel their upcoming visit.

The only acceptable level of abuse in any relationship is none.

I can actually remember one incident I was maybe around age 10 or 11? Where my mother had been hitting me and I was crying and said I would phone social services. And she threw the phone at me and told me to do it, and that she'd be glad if they took me away.

Of course I didn't as I was terrified. But I wish I did.

I look at my kids now and I try and encourage their dreams and talk to them about their futures and hopes, and it makes me sad as I remember as a child my only dream was to be able to get away. I had no dreams of career or anything like that even though I was clever and could have done things, I just dreamt of the day I could get out of there. It was my only goal which I achieved I guess.

I agree with you. However, I can understand a little where this poster is coming from. I too had an extremely abusive childhood, both my parents physically, emotionally and verbally abused me. Prior to therapy, I would have said similar, in fact I remember laughing with a childhood friend (she also had an awful childhood) about the crazy shit our mothers did. I wasn’t able to face reality at that point, I also thought that behaviour wasn’t abuse and was normal. It’s a dangerous cycle to be in as if you can’t face what happened to you and label it, appropriately, as abuse you’re at risk of repeating it (I’m sure all the survivors here know this).

OP I can’t recommend therapy enough, it changed and saved my life. The anxiety and depression you’re suffering with is most likely an expression of the mental and emotional pain you’re in from trauma in childhood (I’m not a doc). Get the help you deserve, build up tight boundaries and go low or no contact. I truly understand how hard this is for you.

@bad2daughter - it has never been normal to throttle children. You could easily be killed. I grew up in the 70s (a time when schools still used the cane). We got spanked occasionally but our parents but that was it. Your parents were horrifically abusive. No child deserves what you describe no matter how badly behaved they are.

You've been abused and neglected on many levels. This shouldn't have happened to you. I'm pretty sure it would count as sexual abuse if you father exposed you to porn.
I was born similar time to you and i don't believe its normal. Both my parents suffered either neglect or abuse despite their parents thinking they were doing the right thing so they have never done anything like this to me just as you have been kind to your children.

If it was an uncle, family friend treating you as they have, you would be advised to press charges for historic abuse. But I can understand why you wouldn't. Sorry you've been through this. It's heartbreaking.

I didn't say it was nothing remarkable. I said that's how I see it and it is what it is. I don't have another childhood to compare things to I've turned out an ok adult. I also don't treat my kids the same. I still see and speak to both my parents and I make jokes about it in front of them or even to them. I'm aware it's not normal in all circles and others weren't treated like that but I can't undo it, neither can they and neither can a therapist. I have fond memories of my childhood and other memories, we still look back and laugh.

This is how I see it myself and my way of dealing with it.

I know I’ve already posted but it’s too late to edit. What you experienced was not normal. Throttling a child has never ever been normal - the risk of killing the child is so high. As I mentioned, I grew up in the 1970s - my friends and I were occasionally spanked and that was it. I had a friend who was hit with a belt and most of us felt that was excessive.

The verbal belittling you describe was horribly abusive. I got told off occasionally and may sometimes be told I had done something stupid (and sometimes I did do something stupid) but got lots of praise and encouragement.

Watching porn in front of you was a form of sexual abuse.

Your parents were shittily abusive. Even if you had been very badly behaved, it would still have been wrong. In fact, they’re lucky you didn’t go off the rails as that kind of abuse often generates bad behaviour. It’s possible they grew up with the same treatment but you grew up with it too and knew enough not to repeat it.

This was never okay and is all on them, OP, not you. And you’re not obliged to pretend.

No, it was not normal, OP. Sounds like they are trying to assuage their own guilt by manipulative tactics to get you to say ‘Yes, you were good parents’ because somewhere deep down they know it wasn’t normal either. What cowards they are.

You are most certainly not a bad daughter 💐x

Taking in all the replies, thank you.

I just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear so many people have been through similar things.

Luckily my parents live so far away that I only have to see them once a year or so.

Oh and I know both my parents possibly had abusive childhoods themselves, from bits and pieces I've gathered.

My mum has spoken about being beaten with a broom handle and I know my Dad witnessed his DM being beaten so badly by his DF and pushed down the stairs, to which she ended up in hospital.

So there's part of me that feels a little sorry for them and that they knew no better.

@bad2daughter - but they could have known better. They could have broken the cycle. You did. So don’t let them off on the basis that they knew no better.

You don’t have to cut them off if you don’t want to but you don’t have to maintain a fiction either.