Relationship with 15 year daughter has deteriorated

[ICanBuyMyselfFlowers72]

Hi,

Not sure how to deal with this one but I am struggling to have any sort of relationship with my 15 year old daughter. She'll be 16 in June and has GCSE exams coming up.

Basically, she went from a lovely girl (smiley, happy, girlie) to being very sullen, kept out of my way and stayed in her room and downright ignorant. My 23 year marriage ended when she was 11. I had struggled in the marriage for years - sexless, no affection, big age gap, I wasn't attracted to him, loneliness - and it was me that called it a day. Both children (she has a brother 20) who blamed me and thought I was just being silly (I wasn't). Her brother became more understanding as I had a chat with him and explained my reasoning. He has matured into a lovely, caring young man - now at university and with a girlfriend. He spends his time split between university, my house, his dad's and his girlfriend's house.

My daughter, on the other hand, has gradually withdrawn from me over the last 4 years. I'm not sure if it's just teenage hormones (and she's being awful to me, as a result) or if she still blames me for the breakdown of the marriage. The thing is, I feel I can't discuss with her why I did it as she is too young to understand what I mean.

She hardly ever talks to me. Even when I take her out she just sits there staring at her phone and doesn't speak. It's quite upsetting for me. I'm a good mum and have worked hard to support both of my children (senior management in the NHS). In the mornings she will go into the kitchen and make her breakfast but shuts the door so I can't see her. She lives in her room. She is working hard on revision, at the moment, but she's been like this at least a couple of years that I know of. She goes straight upstairs when she comes in from school and insists on eating upstairs. I spend lonely nights on my own downstairs (I have dated on and off but she hasn't been aware as I've brought no-one home). I have no other family (parents and siblings are all RIP) so I am finding it tough. I took her to London for a few days a couple of months back and all she did was moan. I took her to Canada last year and she just didn't appreciate anything and was a grump most of the time. Her brother tries to help with no joy. She doesn't like him either! She hasn't wanted to stay at her dad's so I've had her 100% of the time with no child support (he said he can't afford it) and no free time from her. I rush to get home from work in the evenings and just wish I could get a break from her because of the way she is.

I have started booking myself a 3 night break every 3 months (as I'd crack up without it) and she knows she has to stay with her dad while I'm away. She doesn't seem to grasp that I need some 'me' time. Her dad is getting lots of free time and isn't dealing with a moody, miserable teenager all the time.

I returned from a 3 night trip to London on Monday and she is still at her dad's refusing to come home. Again, in a mood!!

I'm planning to take her away for a week when her exams finish (I can't tolerate more than a week away with her because of the way she is) but starting to feel like I can't face it. She is very messy at home. Never cleans anything and leaves a mess in every room she goes in. Again, I spend hours tidying up after her - another reason why I have started to enjoy my three monthly breaks!!

She is quite high maintenance in that she wants the best of everything. Latest iPhone etc. I pay for her endowment, phone (£54 a month) and she gets £50 a month pocket money from me and £50 a month from her dad. Never does anything for it though!

Is there anything I can do to improve this situation? My mental health is suffering (my job is also extremely stressful). I'm finding it tough not having any family to turn to.

I would agree with not rocking the boat until the GCSEs are over - it’s really not long now. Also, that gives a natural point at which to start asking for more responsibility from her. If she wants the nice things she’s been getting, as a near adult, she’ll need to start behaving appropriately.

It should improve after GCSEs. It is a stressful time in so many ways and I think teen brain development goes on hold this term. They all seem to get much happier and grow up in the summer after.

The two of you together will feel a bit intense. Sometimes it’s like this with my daughters but dad is here and he lightens the mood. You don’t have that so that’s harder for you. You need to bring out your acting skills and be positive every day until this phase passes. Don’t expect any emotional support or praise from
her - her brain is simply focused elsewhere. Sending solidarity!

Teenagers can be like this but I can't get my head around how you are gifting so much pocket money and expensive items when she is so rude and disrespectful. She appears to treat you with contempt anyway so you have nothing to lose. Tell her she's going to have to start earning her pocket money by doing chores. Tell her you've been very lenient with her upset post break up but enough is enough. She can start engaging with you...talking at dinner, no phones at the table etc or privileges will be withdrawn. Turn off the WiFi at night, no phones in the bedroom after 7pm or something like that. She will have to engage with you and stop behaviour in such a spoilt way.

Well I'd start by not treating her like a baby. She's 15, you can have difficult conversations with her about why your marriage ended.

You can also leave her alone in the evenings. Hell, DD loves it when we bugger off out for an evening, she has free roam of the house.

And stop tiptoeing around her. You don't have to buy her every single thing she demands, you can tell her to do some chores or she's not getting pocket money. Be her parent.

She sounds a very typical teenager and is she actually badly behaved as such or just a misery? They are different things. Try to disengage and take the heat out of the situation a bit. You sound very intense. It's natural for teenagers to pull away from their parents but it does sound like there's a lot of unresolved issues from your break up. Keep things light hearted and just chat, let her know you're always there for her and want her to be happy.

Also I could be very hard work as a teenager- no particular reason other than poor mental health. I came from a loving and stable home. It passed and I got a lot closer to my mum again in my late teens.

I think the problem may be that you’re lonely and requiring some human connection.

There’s really nothing to outrageous here about her behaviour as a teenage girl. Did you have an affair? Even if you didn’t, she may still resent you, she’s a teenager, hopefully it will change in a few years.

Oh, you really need to go to CMS by the way.

I’m not sure I’d do that at 15 when she’s already unhappy. My Mum used to talk to me like that, I wasn’t her friend I was her daughter, it’s inappropriate. She shouldn’t go into details about why her marriage ended.

Your plan is to punish her into forcing her to spend time with her Mum? How do you really think that’s going to turn out? Her Mum needs a friend, she can’t force her daughter into being her company.

I'm not saying to just start a random conversation about it, but if the daughter is blaming Mum for the breakup, or has questions about it, there's nothing wrong with the truth

She's your daughter, not your partner or best friend, you're complaining that you're lonely when she stays in her room .... She will or won't grow out of it. It's likely that it's nothing to do with you breaking up with her dad years ago, she's a teenager.

Suggest she lives with her dad. Then you can be fun mum or she'll be begging to come home after a week or two.

That’s really hard. It’s tough with teenagers. I would not be going on any holidays (nightmare!) and would instead try to get something regular sorted for yourself, like a hobby or escape, at least weekly.

These 3 month ‘escape’ breaks are nearly like crisis care, but you need to build in friendships and your own pleasure into your daily life now.
She will probably come around and be nice again at 19, but what if she doesn’t? You can’t live like this, with a ghost. Just be as nice as you can to her and get your own life.

Agree. It can be an awful time.

Having been through this I would first of all seperate your feelings of loneliness from all of this.

I would also reconsider going on holiday with her - not as a punishment but it sounds as though it could be really miserable. At a similar age my DD and I went on holiday together with other friends and family. That worked well. A holiday just for the 2 of us would have been awful!

This will pass - could be a few more years but it will eventually get better.

@Mummame2222 I think you are bringing your own issues to the table here as you mention your mother treating you as a confidant in another post. I am certainky not suggesting that the daughter should become the mother's friend but she can be bloody courteous and not downright rude and antisocial if she is living in the op's house. That's basic social skills. My kids certainly wouldn't be getting all those treats if they couldn't show some basic humility and respect toward me. If you want to be a doormat for your kids go ahead but in my opinion the least they can do is clean up after themselves and be a bit sociable.

She sounds deeply unhappy. Hormones won't help, but it must stem at least in part from her parents splitting up when she was 11, so her whole world changed in a way that your 20yo DS's did not. She probably doesn't like you very much at this point, nor her dad, and nor herself. Things can feel very bleak at that age when you can't believe in love or happiness as a lasting thing. Holidays and such won't fix it and maybe nothing will except time and constancy, unconditional love and as much therapy as she can take. And even then it'll likely be a bumpy ride. You can't expect her to put your feelings first though or even have much headspace for them. She's not there to stop you feeling lonely at night and you obviously get on her nerves (and she on yours no doubt). If she doesn't like staying with either parent, it's no wonder she's down. Is there anywhere she does like to go, any groups that make her happy? Overall I'd be trying to help her find somewhere that gives her a lift if possible.

My kids certainly wouldn't be getting all those treats if they couldn't show some basic humility and respect toward me.

I'd have thought in the DD's logic she probably doesn't respect her mum or have much humility for her because of splitting up the home, and all the humility will be expected to go one way from OP to DD who is hurting and at a selfish stage in life where the treats at the least she feels OP owes her for letting her down in an existential way. I'm not saying DD is right, but that would be how a 15yo in the situation described would surely feel and OP is on a hiding to nothing if she starts demanding respect. I think they're both unhappy and enduring each other until they find their way through this with hopefully no big crises. Agree that getting through GCSEs should be the priority for now.

I'd separate the thing about wanting to do her own thing, wanting time to herself in her room etc....from the not tidying up after herself. Our kids don't owe us conversation but they do need to be respectful, learn to take responsibility for the mess they make in shared living spaces, and they, I believe, need to learn how you earn things.

Myself I'd say to her if she ever wants to talk to you about the divorce, or someone else, that's always there but shes under no obligation. By the same token basic respect runs both ways. Then I'd also say that from now on her pocket money is earned, she cleans up after herself and takes on a basic chore each week. Personally, I don't think endless giving is the solution to anyone's feeling of ability and self confidence. Pride in a job well done is worth as much as what you earn for doing it

A difficult time from both sides. You appear to be still seeing her maybe a little too much as a child. She's likely feeling on the way to womanhood, which she is, she's not wrong.
Why are you making her go on holiday with you? Scrap the post exam holiday idea for now, she's of an age where holidays with parents are of no interest, it's quite normal not to want to go with parents by 16.
Instead of taking it all personally, maybe look at her behaviour as a whole and how she interacts with others. Does she have friends? Did she end up moving away from friends when you split? If 11, she was moving schools at the time, then came covid lockdown just as she would of been making new friends, it stunted and had affects on all DC's and went on for a long time - a year to a child is perceived as lot longer than a year to an adult.
If you can treat her a bit more like an adult, that might help. I'm surprised you think she's too young to understand things and shows how you perceive her. She isn't too young IMO. I see also maybe some ovecompensating with material things on your part - flash holidays, posh phones.
Your ex says he can't afford maintenance - he can, he just doesn't want to have to, cms claim is for that. It doesn't look like you need his money given the spending you do, but it's more about showing responsibility on his part for her. I hope you've never complained to her that he doesn't pay for anything.
Perhaps get a cleaner if the housework is grinding you down. Make this phone the last one you pay for, she should be old enough to get her own by the next one.
If she is a recluse in general, I'd say she maybe needs some therapy as she's been through a lot and it might help her to talk to someone neutral. Make sure your WiFi has parental control on it too, as she could be exposed to allsorts in her room that you don't know about.

She is reluctant to stay with him. Always has been. She only goes if I go on my 3 night break every 3 months or if she gets moody with me!

I did take her with me just before Christmas. She was a nightmare! Never again!

That's good into hear. I've heard 17 is the magic turning point.

I agree she gets too much. She wastes it on rubbish online - clothes that she doesn't need. Her national insurance number came through yesterday so I think I'll encourage her to get a little PT job soon. I did, at her age. As did her brother.

Yes, I know exams are tough and the school are working them hard. It's a high performing school. That's why I wanted to take her away after they finish.

Yeah, it's tough. I wasn't as bad as this with my mum.

All the time.