Any stately home folk around? ‘Narc’ mum issue

[Raisedbyanarc]

NC for this but I am trying to find the latest ‘well we took you to stately homes’ thread (but don’t know how to search) or get some advice about my relationship with my mum.

She is 70s I am 50s. She behaved badly recently and it’s reminded me of all the things she has done over the years and it’s making me pull away from her.

The main theme is putting her own emotions before mine. She had a difficult relationship with her mum so I know where it comes from, but she is manipulative, passive aggressive and uses emotional blackmail to get what she feels she needs.

She loves us but I find her behaviour very hard to be around. I’m putting in boundaries and I’m trying not to get organised by her behaviour but I can’t tell if I’m going too far.

I was raised to be the peace keeper, the soother, the carer and the ‘go to’ person for any emotional needs. I am also the one who brings everyone together for social events. I no longer want to be in this role. I’m too worn out.

My nephew, her GS, is visiting her from away this week. He is staying with her rather than us as she is helping him pull his CV together - she was a careers advisor. Usually I would suggest plans - e.g let’s get out for a walk at lunch time so you both get some fresh air etc. I’d invite them up to dinner. Instead I said to let me know what their plans are and we would plan around them. I said they are welcome any time for food and I’m happy to drive us out anywhere (I am the only driver).

DM has got back to me with a plan that basically means we won’t see her. DN will just spend a day with us. Usually I would say ‘but we won’t see you. Why don’t we do/go xyz…’ because that’s what she needs. She needs confirmation that she’s wanted and what she is doing now is trying to manipulate me into confirming she’s wanted.

She’s doing a ‘poor me, nobody wants me, they will be better without me’ but in order to try and get some feedback. I don’t want to do that dance anymore. All my life I’ve been dancing to this tune and when I have genuinely needed emotional support, I’ve ended up supporting her. Recent events have shown me that I’m lots of peoples ‘go to’ for emotional support but few people in my life give me the support I give them. So I’m making changes.

So I just texted ‘If that’s what works best for you x’

Am I being mean? I can’t tell if I’m being boundaried or have gone too far. I’ve been a people pleaser for so long I’ve lost sight of what’s normal!

Well done, OP, you seem to have had an epiphany and it's such a good thing.
Think about yourself first, not what suits everyone else. You don't have to organise or be the one to arrange things, step back. Protect yourself from your mother's manipulations and don't overthink it all. Be happy and please yourself.

So she hadn’t seen the message so I deleted it and changed it to reflect more what I actually want including what my DCs will want. I made it chipper and warm but without getting organised by her tactics.

I think I move into a kind of defence mode so whilst I wasn’t trying to be passive aggressive I think my attempts to be boundaried leak my anger sometimes.

Because I am angry. I’m angry about all the key moments in my life that have a dark cloud over the memory because of her selfish behaviour (or more kindly - her difficulties in regulating and managing her emotions and behaviour). She was a loving mother in some ways and she did her best but she was outrageously self absorbed. When I compare how she was to how I am as a parent it is so different.

Im having counselling. I’ll get there! Thanks all who have responded. So so helpful to get such wonderful wisdom and what a sad state of affairs that so many of us have similar stories.

I hear you. Take a pause before responding, I like to literally 'sleep on it' so I don't give the first response that comes to mind that I've been conditioned for years into giving, I give a considered response from my adult self who knows better and can see right through the antics, and isn't afraid to stand my ground. Or even consider having ground to stand on! It's a journey for sure, sounds like you're doing brilliantly. Keep going.

Taking time is a good plan. I was able to delete and re do.

Just another quick question.

Before I used to say things like ‘it will be lovely to see you’ etc.

it’s not true. I think I used to almost believe it to be true. And sometimes it is nice to see her when she’s not engaging in those behaviours. But at the moment I dread it. Really dread it.

A recent tiny, but illustrative, example was I said I’d pick her up after lunch. I had my lunch and picked her up. Her first words to me we ‘You are late!’ It was 2.00. I didn’t know I was late. No set time was given. So it was a shock when I was calling round to do her a favour and the first thing she said was a complaint. So I dread it now.

What’s the adult way here? Is it just polite to say ‘looking forward to seeing you’ or similar niceties, or not?

If you feel like nicities are sticking in your throat it's an indicator that you have agreed to do something you're really not comfortable with. I personally find picking a mothers' day card a bloody nightmare. I stand in the shop reading the words and putting them back as they all seem completely absurd to me that any one could feel like that about their mother. I get a blank one.

Nicities are just social grease really, they smooth the path, so if you can't get out of what you've agreed to there's no harm in using them to make your life easier, she doesn't have to know you don't mean it, but also use that feeling as a sign that you are in conflict internally between what you're doing and what you're comforatable with doing, and let it help you set your boundaries going forward. If you've been to pick her up and she can't be polite, then next time, when the request comes, it's ok to say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to do that for you. And let the backlash come, and wash over your head. And repat. Eventually, the dynamic should shift, even if slightly.

The heart attack/chest pain thing is all too familiar. When I was younger, her 'go to' was to take an overdose of tablets.

I think there’s no harm in social niceties. You will mind them less when you’re being more proactive about the terms of your interactions.

As for the after lunch pick up, from the outside I’d say it’svague communication, to her you were late, and to anyone else who has lunch at 12pm you may have been “late”, but from your perspective you weren’t.

I don’t think this incident would feel
so annoying if it weren’t for all the other things that go on, but if it was someone else maybe you’d be more likely to reflect on whether it might have been ambiguous when a time of “after lunch” was agreed

What’s the adult way here? Is it just polite to say ‘looking forward to seeing you’ or similar niceties, or not

I used to say I was looking forward to lunch or if I was taking her somewhere that I was looking forward to seeing X/Y/Z destination. Because that was true; I like food and I wanted to see the place we were going. That got round me saying I was looking forward to see my mother as that wasn't always entirely true!

If I turned up and she was in a bad mood, criticising me, moaning, unable to be pleased about anything etc, I sometimes simply said, "well you obviously aren't happy to see me today so I'll go now and come back tomorrow (or whenever) when you feel better". A few times of walking out and she learnt I meant it and behaved better!

Page 3 | March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes | Mumsnet

Argghhhh I felt every word of what you described! (Well, in terms of emotional abuse, not the careers advisor/egg hunt part! :P)

You are doing an amazing job drawing boundaries. Keep up the good work and don't let yourself get drawn in!

I stick with neutralities! See you later etc.

If she greeted me with ‘you’re late!’, I’d respond with ‘Am I? We said after lunch.’

I think determinedly making sure she doesn’t win is part of her game. We are trying to opt out of the game. We don’t need to be defensive. We can acknowledge what she thinks and feels without agreeing with her.

I’ll say ‘oh no, have you been waiting?’. It’s just an acknowledgment of her distress, which is real, not an acceptance of being late.

Also I often hear criticism where none is intended because I have a hair trigger for it after years of training!

When she moans that no one loves her or cares about her, she isn’t actually complaining about me, the dog’s body who’s actually visiting, but about how lonely she feels and how neglectful my sibs are.

She’s often angry, and I used to take it personally, but actually she’s just angry rather than angry with me.

I am the same with Mother’s Day. I buy a blank one and just put ‘happy mothers day’ and say thank you if there is anything to be thankful for. She does spoil DC.

All great advice. Thank you so much. Such wisdom on this site. 😊

That’s awful. So sorry to hear that. That must have been really hard 💐

That’s true, although any of my friends would have either clarified if they needed specifics or not been so rude upon my arrival. But as a stand alone it’s not too bad but it’s just a tiny example of that feeling of never being able to get it right and never knowing whether I’ll be greeted warmly or with anger.

your relationship with your DM sounds very much like my DW's with her mother.

it sounds like you are doing all the right things, in terms of gently trying to assert your boundaries, and by acknowledging that instant/emotion-led reactions/responses aren't always helpful.

i also fully understand your reluctance to go low or no contact, or to immediately go to concrete boundaries.

counselling is absolutely the right way to help give yourself permission to change your behaviour.

my MIL is lightning quick in her willingness to dive into toxic self-pity.

after a particularly vicious rant this weekend, DW for the first time said if she didn't stop, she'd take MIL home.

MILs response "if you do that, you'll never see me again"

an obviously melodramatic and seemingly baseless threat, but when you've witnessed more than one attempted overdose as a child, it's understandably very hard to disregard.

Excellent strategies! Thanks 🙏

Thanks.

Your poor wife! Glad you are supporting her to keep boundaries.

Yes. I agree that sometimes the anger isn’t directed at me but often it is. I also think that, as an adult, we all have responsibility to express ourselves as well as possible. It’s not my role to consider what May or may not be going on for her internally whilst she throws her toys out of the pram. I’ve had a lifetime of that kind of emotional labour (since I was middle childhood at least) and I’m now on strike. No more unnecessary emotional labour! I need a placard and a chant! 😂

Honestly, I think you're reading into it a bit much. Sounds more like she just can’t be arsed

I wish that were true but this is a very entrenched pattern sadly.