To hand my daughter over to my ex?

[subscribed]

Dd is 5.

She has not spent any quality time with her dad since 21st January. Ex has chosen not to see her for various reasons, one being he has been mentally unwell.

He has been very abusive towards me and since we separated 6 months ago, the abuse has become worse.

Ex is back again and wants to see dd however I feel very uncomfortable just hading her over to him. Equally I don't think she would be harmed in anyway. He claims he is in a better place now.

He is extremely difficult to talk too so I know if I don't agree, I'll get more abuse off him however. He can only contact me via email as he is blocked on everything else.

Annoyingly, dd seems to be doing better without her dad. The constant questions of when is she going to see him again have stopped and she seems to be doing ok now. I do know she wants to see him again though.

What would you do?

👏👏👏

My mum let my brother see his abusive dad after we left.she didn’t even argue or make him apply for contact. It was the worst thing she did, he was only 4 and he grew up thinking this drunken behaviour was normal and now has massive issues himself.

My daughter last saw him in January. It's the older child he hasn't seen for 6 months.

I was allowing 1 day every other weekend with the option to build up contact if it went well.

In September last year we separated for good.

Ex didn't see dd for 3 weeks.

He then saw her a few times for a couple of hours each time but then the police were called.

He didn't see her for 6 weeks.

I then allowed contact again for 1 day every other weekend. There were 4 sessions of these in total and then they stopped in January.

For me, he would be going via the court.

@Peaceandquietandacuppa I understand where you’re coming from I really do, but if he’s never been abusive to the child I don’t see why he should be locked out of her life. He has his rights

He’s not ‘just as much a parent’ if he could abandon her for weeks. Threaten to kill himself in the next room. Abuse her mother. Any ‘blood’ rights he signed away with that behaviour and she is well within her rights to not just hand her baby over to that shitshow.

@Peaceandquietandacuppa The court wouldn’t see it that way unfortunately. If he’s on the birth certificate he has rights. They don’t just disintegrate if he does something wrong

Yes and he can apply through the proper channels and see what the professionals recommend when they hear all his past behaviour, maybe see her in a contact centre and work his way up to more. Not just bully and guilt trip the mum into his way.

@Peaceandquietandacuppa I don't necessarily know if he's blaming the child. He's 100% blaming the situation though and the child's mother.

He is not however blaming himself. I was still with him when the contact stopped between them both. My ex is definitely the reason contact has been stopped.

He takes no accountability for the relationship breakdown with his other child and no accountability for how it's ended up with dd.

If his email was something along the lines of how he realises his actions have affected dd, he knows he needs to try harder, he is going to make it up to her etc etc.....then I may have considered it.

But the email I got was just about how he's given up with his other child, washed his hands with them and there's nothing he can do until the mother 'fucks off out the picture'

Followed with 'I'll have dd on Saturday'

He's a total narcissist. I know it's a word thrown about a lot these days but I'm convinced he is one and therefore I know he will never change.

The man has threatened suicide!

He is not safe to have unsupervised access.

@subscribed - do you have evidence of these threats

What do you think would happen if you ignored his messages? He gave up with the 9 year old .

about 12 years ago I had the court process started . I did have lots of evidence he was unsafe . Lots of mh diagnosis .. Cafcass said contact wouldn’t happen until psychiatric or psychological assessment . My ex then withdrew .

So sorry, my mum’s ex was similar. I really feel that little ones need protecting wherever possible from parents like this. Not that they shouldn’t ever get access, but they should be supervised and a proper legal plan set up so he can’t keep messing you about.

It’s so messed up that he introduced her to some random woman he is shagging and her kids too. I’d be fuming about that, how confusing for your DD.

I do have a solicitor involved in this and she's said herself that if he were to go to court then it wouldn't be a bad thing to see how he responds under a professional spot light.

He has a criminal record from years ago. I don't know how much of that would be taken into account. And also a restraining order against a previous ex - which I had absolutely no idea about until recently.

He's extremely charming though.

I can't see him taking me to court. He's a gambling
addict and last I heard he was in a lot of debt.

There you go then. Send an email stating that you think it would be for the best for him to make contact more formal, as it has been sporadic, and to go through the courts.

What do you mean the court won’t see it that way?! She can get police reports of the complaints made. She may have proof of abuse with messages etc and he threatened to commit suicide with the child in the house. You really think they will say ‘oh ignore all that, he’s on the birth certificate’…?

Omg. Anxiety is one thing, depression is one thing. This man's behaviour is NOT that! He sounds narcissistic, sociopathic or a psychopath. And you may think I sound dramatic but that nonsense he has given about his other kids and his addictions tell you everything!! This man is dangerous. I don't believe people suffering anxiety or depression are dangerous btw. This person's view of the world and children is so messed up I have no words.

I'd do everything to avoid him having influence over your daughter tbh

@PaminaMozart I have actually kept a video diary for a long time - none of it is actual evidence but it does show my mental state after any abuse. They are private for my healing journey so I don't know if they would be any use.

The police did a welfare check on him after I called them so I guess that would also count as evidence and I had an email from him saying that they had called him. He asked in the email if he was getting arrested.

I also have emails of apologies from him blaming his anxiety.

I have emails/texts from him asking me to FaceTime with dd him but only because he was convinced I was with another man and not dd. He was also very controlling.

He would always text me and ask me to swear on dds life that I wasn't cheating on him - even after we separate 🙄

He had control of my security cameras in my home too.

Again this was all because of his anxiety.

I have evidence of all that.

The list goes on too.

lol @ you

@Pantaloons99 yes he is very narcissistic.

I've been in therapy for 2.5 years, done the freedom course and many other courses on domestic abuse.

He himself had an extremely traumatic childhood. I was so empathetic with him for years but I couldn't go on. Being with him was mentally exhausting. He used to say 'aren't you glad I'm not one of those that beats you up?'

Since I left, I've realised he was proud of himself - I was the only woman he hadn't been physically violent with. And that's because I worked so very hard to keep him happy.

He cannot be alone which is why he's moved straight on to the next woman and wants to play happy families with her. I don't think for a second dd is or was ready for that. But of course if I were to bring it up I'd be bitter and jealous 🙄 nothing to do with me protecting my child.

You really can't win with them. I barely speak to him but it's very 'grey rock' when I do.

This all sounds horrendous for you. I'd do everything to put him off. As suggested, I'd ask if any visitation could be through a contact centre for example. Save every single interaction in writing as evidence should you need it.

As long as he has other people in his life to abuse he may eventually just leave this alone and give up asking - which sounds like what you need. Although it's awful for the other poor targets/ victims, it will keep spotlight off you.

It's taken me a lifetime to realise I've been on the receiving end of narcissist people. It is very difficult and upsetting as you learn they'll never ever change. I've had to read up on the grey rocking myself. It's exhausting.

It's without a doubt the most stressful and confusing thing I've ever been through. Sometimes I still question it - we were together almost 8 years. You have to do the work and heal alone. That's the only way in my opinion.

My self esteem was never great and I was and still am a huge people pleaser which made me attractive to him.

I worry for his new partner. Someone told me the other day she was selling her tv unit. It sounds mad but my heart sank.

My ex is a builder and I know full well that's because he will be making a built in media wall for her tv. He did it in my house, and others too. It's how he works his way into the houses of his new relationship. No doubt she will think it's great right now but she's well and truly trapped.

It's been a huge life lesson with a beautiful dd at the end of it. I just don't want anyone to disturb our peace.

I'm sorry you've experienced this too. There are some really horrible people out there.

Subscribed - you're an empath and that's what makes us targets. Look at how you're concerned for the new partner and how she may suffer? Sadly that is going to be her battle and journey and nothing you do will change that. The spotlight off you and your daughter is sadly for her, or any other person close to him, a good thing for you.

Over time, with enough non stop grey rocking and absolute minimum communication, he'll just move on from both you and his daughter. That's why making it as difficult as possible to see his daughter without it appearing so is all you can do.

Yes, it's hideous when you realise people can be like this. I often wish I was more hard faced, less empathic, less compassionate and then we'd never be appealing to these rotten things.

I think this is very bad advice. If he applies and op can't prove he's a safety risk then he may get up to 5050 court ordered overnights.

Much better to go to mediation to discuss if he would enter that? Or write him a letter with your concerns and ask where he plans to take her and to do what and for how long (eg short trip to the park at first sounds reasonable) and can you arrange some video calls to help her reconnect with him first so she is more comfortable after not seeing him for a while?

Can you offer a contact centre?

I have no idea how to do that but I can ask in my call wiith the lady from my local DV charity tomorrow.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum I've been told by my solicitor that I shouldn't do mediation due ti the abuse. I don't actually think I could bare sitting talking with him - I haven't seen him in almost 6 months. As I'm getting legal aid, it will just go straight to court.

He doesn't want over night stays or 50/50. He's not that type of parent - that would be his worst nightmare. He wouldn't want or be able to cope with the responsibility.

Ideally I just think he wants 1 day per week and maybe twice a week for tea - but that's only after his ringer work as he refuses to collect ds from school. He's asked for this in the past but I've said no as he wouldn't collect her until 5.30 which is too late on a school night. He obviously thought this was ridiculous though. I gave him the option to get her from school but he said no. He's self employed - he could easily do this if he wanted too.