Am I a rubbish wife?

[Darkmode44]

Both in our 40s. Three kids (16, 14 and 12). The 14 and 12 year old both have special needs and attend a special school. Youngest is severely disabled and needs 1:1 supervision at all times (mental age around 1). Husband works a senior job FT 8-5.30pm hybrid. I was a carer for the kids for many years as they couldn’t access childcare. I now work four days a week, term time only and do all the childcare.

DH has recently started complaining that I’m not very affectionate. Cuddles are never just cuddles though. To be honest I’m a bit knackered and fed up of being taken for granted. I have been feeling very low due to all my responsibilities with work and home. Our youngest son when not climbing on me is quite physical. I do the majority of household chores. DH does the bins, finances, mows the lawn, puts the odd bit of washing in the machine. He doesn’t want a cleaner.

DH has retained his hobbies. He’s out on average 2 full nights, then an hour hockey training another night and then on top of that 2/3 gym sessions. I’ve never had loads of hobbies out of the house but have said I need space when he deals with our children with Sen as the evenings are tough. It doesn’t seem to work though.

I’ve told my DH that I’ve been struggling and I feel quite low and worn out. He then got upset as he said I was criticising him and got quite defensive. He’s generally quite a stressy person and gets quite grumpy. I feel a lot of the time like I’m his support human. I know our situation is more stressful than most but I’m so tired of feeling like he doesn’t appreciate anything that instead of taking more of the load he’s complaining he’s not getting more intimacy.

What the first poster said.

If he wants you to feel like being ‘intimate’ he needs to do things to cause you to feel love for him. Things like showing caring for you through his actions, listening to you, supporting you,looking after his own kids to give you time for your own hobbies , interests or leisure. Words of acknowledgement and appreciation for what you do for him.

Does he ever take a day or two off work to take over the kids and house and give you time to yourself?

I’m sorry, I simply don’t buy that this is a communication issue. Or that counselling will help.

This is a problem of how he sees OP. Which is as a function in his life. she does not exist as a person to him, in effect. What she feels or thinks or needs is absent to him.

Instead he feels sorry for himself that home is not a ‘happy place’ and he doesn’t get sex as much as he likes and she ‘cuts up rough’ if she asks him to stay at home and help her out.

Counselling can’t fix that he doesn’t respect her or see her as an equal human being of equal worth. Counselling can’t change him into a man who sees marriage as a partnership of equals rather than a convenience to stop him looking after his own kids.

OP speaks perfectly good English and he understands English. He is perfectly capable of understanding her reasonable point of view. He’s rejecting it as it disadvantages him to accept what she is saying and accommodate it.

This marriage works for him a whole lot more than it does for her. All his incentive to go to counselling is to use it to pressure her give him more sex.

It is really hard to read between the lines in this type of situation, although as soon a as I see the words ‘support human’, I think you have been on here too long.

Basically, you need to talk to each other and decide if you like one another enough to stay married.

It is really easy to see how resentment builds up when you each have defined roles but feel the other is stretching the definition. He probably thinks he is giving you a comfortable life by working hard and taking the stress of a high earning job, You feel that when you add up the hours, he has an easy life.

Ultimately, you can’t force affection and, if it is gone, it is probably time to split up. However, an honest talk could help, especially with a good counsellor.

Exactly this.

I wouldn’t say life is comfortable. Though financially yes it is definitely the case. I did get a job to try and contribute to the finances as he didn’t grow up with a lot of money so worries about it a lot. And have been working for the last 5 years now. Mainly home based so it doesn’t interfere at all with his job. And he does like his job and considering how senior he is, it’s the one job where he hasn’t had to do excess extra hours each week.

I have suggested counselling but I think it’s unlikely to happen. I would like him to see someone about his anger as he’s quite a tense person. He describes himself as marmite, he can’t seem to see that I have emotional needs to meet. I just want to few part of a team. At the moment, I feel like he’s the captain and I’m just second in command. Picking up the bits he doesn’t want. I want him to go through our kids ehcps with me, consider therapists, I want him to spend a tiny bit of leisure time also doing the speech course I’m doing to help our son.

I’m just tired of it. Tired of not being seen as a person. If we go out for the day it is always me packing our son’s going out bag despite asking him to do it. And to him, it seems like such a small thing but it is part of the bigger picture. He just doesn’t seem to want or isn’t able to see things from my point of view that when he’s “nipping” to the gym nearby, he’s gone an hour and a half at a difficult point at night. I’m tired of him letting our dog sleep on the bed when I tell him constantly that the dog disturbs me. But because these things are not a problem to him, he can’t see why they’d be a problem to me.

I’m stuck on how to move forward when he tells me how sad he has been this past month and says it’s clear we’re in a bad place but yet it doesn’t feel he wants to make changes because as someone says, his life suits him. Even when I’ve had a knackering and crap day, I still don’t say no to him going out. There was one occasion I did ring him to come back from the gym as our son was having a huge meltdown and attacking me. He ended up chatting to someone in the gym and still didn’t come back. And I back off from a lot of arguments with him as it doesn’t seem to make any odds and he feels personally criticised which he cannot bear.

I’m very aware he could leave and could cheat but I can’t bring myself to be kinder to him at the moment. I just feel utterly spent and I’m probably a people pleaser. I hate uncomfortable situations. Financially he would be absolutely fine whereas for me, it would be difficult though I did the other day check a benefits calculator to see what I might be able to claim though it gave a crazy figure of £2k a month.

as he didn’t grow up with a lot of money so worries about it a lot. And have been working for the last 5 years now. Mainly home based so it doesn’t interfere at all with his job. And he does like his job and considering how senior he is, it’s the one job where he hasn’t had to do excess extra hours each week.

Does he do the thing where he's worrying about money when it's you wanting to spend it (eg. on a cleaner), but then when he's 'feeling down' goes and buys himself something expensive (laptop, watch, gym gear) to make him feel better? And you're 'OK, he does work hard, he's clearly struggling, he should have nice things, I'm a team player and I'm OK, I don't need them (or want those things) anyway? Because honestly, he's sounding so much like my ex it's scary (who did start seeing prostitutes - male and female, and having abusive sex with young women).

I don't have sen kids (well, I do, but nothing with behavioural difficulties, so he's effort, but drudgery, not something hard to deal with), and yes, it's relentless being 100% responsible for them (less one day a fortnight with their dad), but it's better than the continual sadness and loneliness, and blaming myself for his issues that I had when we were together.

My biggest piece of advice is, if you decide it's over, 1) start a cash fund, hidden somewhere, so you know it's there if you need it. 2) pay off anything that you can now with whatever excuse you need, buy kids shoes/coats etc. to see you through a year or two when it'll be rough 3) don't expect him to be reasonable. He's not reasonable or you wouldn't be here. Protect yourself (I woke up after 2 weeks, and never let him back in the house again - and I feel much better for that), grey rock him, business like, everything over email so you have evidence, and do your best not to be sucked in to rows.

@Darkmode44

I probably don’t give him enough physical attention

What does 'enough' mean? Who defines what 'enough' is? How much physical attention are you 'supposed' to give him, and who sets the guidelines and rules for this?

He is taking you for granted. He doesn't know or have the empathy to be in your shoes and in his mind what you do has to be easy, because you know, you have been doing it great for so long.

He is the entitled shitty one.

Communication is about more than speaking English…. People have different communication styles and it’s up to us to adapt, understand and accommodate to that (all of us in all of our interpersonal relationships) in order to communicate our needs.
After years of failing to effectively communicate respect does get lost and mutual needs go unmet.
Can you get the respect back? Doubtful, but certainly not without getting counselling. Unless it’s too late and the damage is done. Which is exactly to my point.

Edited to add: from OP’s perspective her husband sounds like a sex mad pest. Maybe he is, we can’t tell from one side of the story. Physical intimacy can be more important to some people as a love language than others. And physical intimacy doesn’t always mean just sex. To ignore there is a problem is wrong for both of them and won’t end well. Again. Counselling or end the marriage.

I agree that he sounds like a shit husband.

He is a selfish shit. He is 'the same person he always was' because he has a job where he is respected and rewarded, hobbies which he enjoys, and a support human at home to take care of his children and all of the humdrum parts of daily life. The only fly in his ointment is that his support human is inexplicably not jumping his bones when he gets home. 🤔
You on the other hand have a job that works around your dc, full responsibility for a disabled child, a household to run, and no time or energy to do anything meaningful or mindful for yourself. How fucking dare he criticise you?
A loving decent husband would understand how demanding your dc are and do his utmost to support you, whether it's getting a cleaner, taking on more of the mental load, or just sitting and listening to you. He is a shit and I am sorry to say i don't think he will change, but at the very least you can insist on a cleaner and a couple of nights off to just be you again.

Again, I profoundly disagree. A common reason for relationship counselling to fail is precisely because it focuses on communication with the assumption that fixing this, fixes the problem.
Whereas what actually makes relationships fail or succeed is the friendship between the couple.
A key determinant in how one individual communicates with another is how they feel about that person. If you have disregard or contempt for that person, it will show in how you communicate with them. Not because of ' communication style' but because of your views/ feelings about that person.

The OP has not needed to adapt her communication style for everyone on this thread to be able to see what the dynamic is here. She has very clearly articulated what her situation is and how it profoundly impacts her. We have all understood that without special adaptations to our personal 'communication style'. Her H has the capacity to understand this too without special adaptation.

And frankly, there is no need for OP to have to communicate, any fool could understand the pressures of her life without her needing to spell them out. A decent man would be able to see for himself that he needs to offer appreciation, support and time off.

I feel really strongly that women in relationships with men who are treating them like shit should not be told they just need to find the right way to communicate. They really don't. They can waste years on that dead end, not to mention the terrible emotional toll this fruitless task takes.

This is a very simple tale of man who prioritises himself over her.

Imagine saying i don’t need to pay for a cleaner, you already do it for free. Which is what he basically said.

Then imagine seeing your wife do 100% of the childcare
most of the housework
and work almost as much as you
whilst you have lots of free time, and instead of thinking, can i contribute here, to give my wife a break and treat her like a human being, instead you go, hey, this live in servant isn’t paying enough attention to my needs. What else could she be doing for me?

@Boringlaptopday very well said! 👏👏

I have not at any point said DH doesn’t sound shit or that the marriage is fixable. And again I’m in agreement that the marriage is shit and that it takes two people to work on and communicate to fix marital problems. Marriage counselling often fails because the relationship is done already and the counselling works to make people realise that and get to a place where they are ready to finally end it.

So, OP posted asking if she is a shit wife. The fact she has even slightly considered this suggests to me she is not quite at the point of going “I’m DONE, he’s never going to change”. She also hadn’t posted her financial situation at that point and has mentioned children with disabilities. Who am I to jump on and go “LTB” not knowing the full picture of divorce for OP and DCs.

So I DO think if OP isn’t quite at the leave stage she should suggest counselling to him. If he doesn’t go for it, there’s an answer to the leave question there, if he does go for it and nothing changes OP can hand on heart say she has done everything she can do to save the marriage and get to the point of ending things with no questions or doubts. Even DH won’t be able to play the blindsided victim this way either. Or all the problems get magically fixed in counseling… (I’d bet my left foot it won’t of course, but stranger things have happened).

I really think we are saying the same thing, but from experience I’ve seen people with the absolute worst relationships question themselves and stay. The people married to the most selfish people are usually the biggest people pleasers. I want OP to get to a place where she is ready to leave but in my experience this doesn’t happen where there’s even a glimmer of hope in their eyes.

Most people (rightly or wrongly) see couples counseling as the last resort, so maybe OP needs that to get herself to the place where she finally feels ready to leave. And leave and never go back at that as I’ve also seen that happen.

I don't think you are rubbish wife. I think he is a rubbish husband. I agree that you are in a vulnerable situation and he is inherently selfish. I know he doesn't want a cleaner but can you persuade him on this. Presumably he won't even see her given he'll be at work. You do need to do something to improve things for yourself. Hopefully you have all the mod cons to make life a bit easier like a dishwasher, microwave, tumble drier and so on. Can you cut your hours by say three hours a week and get to the gym so you can get some exercise or some hobby so you can get some happiness into your life?

A man should make your life easier not more difficult, and vice versa. I’ll be honest -it seems your life would be easier without him. Is it autism that is in your family? Maybe he is on the spectrum too and can’t see things from your perspective. Either way he needs to shape up or ship out.

I have considered leaving. But I suspect he’d become very unpleasant and I’d worry about the kids, finances, how we would move forward.

I just feel resigned at this point that he won’t change and that this is it now. He goes on about how good a communicator and listener he is and I’m probably hoping deep down if he loves me that he will make some changes. I also veer between wondering if I’m being unreasonable. If I’m at home, should he have the option to go out?

I’ve suggested splitting evenings so we know where we’re at, I’ve asked for ideas for meal plans, splitting chores a bit more. We’ve got a dishwasher, microwave. The biggest thing for me is not just the chores but the mental support. Feeling like he’s invested in me and the kids. The lack of respect and appreciation.

I have said I’ll work on being more physical. I’m not entirely sure what he means by this. More hugs, more sex. More adoration. It’s just hard to want to when I’m telling him I’m doing his best and he’s essentially sulking.

Please don't be a doormat! You deserve better - find your anger!

Oh OP, it's all on his terms - he'd like more physical contact, you'd like that too I bet, just without the groping. You'd like him to engage with the family - even little things like helping plan meals, rather than just do his thing and leave it all to you, maybe to come in, notice that you're knackered, give you a cup of tea and say he'll take it from here, you go sit down for a bit. Do the occasional school run, organise something (rather than just say that it'll sort itself out - when it won't, you'll have to do it)

It's not unreasonable, these are small things he could do to dramatically improve the relationship and your quality of life.

Of course you're disappointed.

I coasted like this for a long time, slowly did less and less for him to give myself some breathing space/try to emphasise that I had too much on, and eventually because I'd reached the 'fuck him' point. I would probably have hung on another year if I hadn't found the awful pictures - but I would have been getting my ducks in a row as I did so.

You are a great wife! I wish you could have some fun and feel more like yourself again, instead of the non stop work.
Maybe put it to him that you would be more like your old self if you were out two nights a week? Doing something you like. Stargazing, or Zumba, or drinking in a pub, or at the cinema, or playing golf, or in a sauna, or something that you like…
If he spent more physical time responsible
for the kids he would be be default more involved, do you think perhaps?
Perhaps not, but you would feel like a person in your own right.

or plan to leave, it’s entirely up to you, but you are not a rubbish wife!

@Darkmode44
"Financially he would be absolutely fine whereas for me, it would be difficult though I did the other day check a benefits calculator to see what I might be able to claim though it gave a crazy figure of £2k a month."

Why do you think £2k pm is a crazy figure? It's certainly too little to live on with 3 dc. I suspect though you mean he wouldn't pay it. And by the sounds of him you are probably right.

@Superlambaanana, that includes nothing from him. It just seems like quite a high figure. But some of it that is the carers part of UC.

I think he does need to get more involved in the drudge. He just seems to think it’s easier as I’m home working all the time and he’s not. It seems like an easy opt out.

I’ve been looking back to our conversation and I told him I also felt uncomfortable in my body and at no point did he try to reassure me that I looked beautiful.

I really appreciate all the advice on here. It has given me a lot to think about. I do need to do more for me I think and create more of a life outside of the home. It’ll also be good to see if my husband makes any more effort. I’m not going to nag them, if he chooses to make changes.

@Darkmode44 It is clear from your posts that you are an articulate and lovely person. And anyone reading your posts will have no trouble understanding what you are going through - and also what is wrong with your relationship.
So that leaves one conclusion - You are not the problem
Several of your comments jumped out to me - that your partner is coercive.

1. His anger issues lead you to be worried about raising issues with him fear of "an outburst" maybe?
2. You say you think his anger issues are improving over the years - i wonder if that's because you have learnt not to aggravate him (by not raising concerns with him) So instead you keep quiet and all the while your resentment towards him is building
3. You mention any physical touch leads to more - you said about cuddles in the kitchen leading to a grope?
4. He goes out for his hobbies/interests but you are struggling to "find yourself"
5. He is making demands of you to be "affectionate" (in other words = More sex)

You certainly need to do something - I'm sorry
I'd be cautious of counselling as a couple - there are hints he is a little abusive hear and counselling with coercive people is not usually recommended.

Only you know if you want to stay or not. Certainly being a single parent to 3 children with additional needs will be harder - and financially it sounds like you will be worse off - believe me these are real considerations.

Maybe consider some counselling for yourself to work out a way forward? Would writing a letter to you husband be helpful I wonder - it sounds like you may struggle t get your point across face to face?
Men often think that intimacy is a "way back in to" a struggling relationship - but women need the relationship to improve BEFORE getting back to more intimacy. So there is a gender divide there that you need to understand.

Good Luck whatever you decide - but I di think you need to be aware of a few little red flags your husband is waving....

@OlderandwiserMaybe, that’s really helpful thank you. I think that’s a huge part of my issue is that until my husband puts in more, it doesn’t make me want to be more intimate with him. I think it’s also the fact that he thinks he does enough. That he contributes. Whereas I think he could do more. I did say to him that we don’t argue because I modify how I deal with him.

There are some red flags but it’s mainly around things we disagree on like contribution, support etc. He cannot see things from my point of view. Looking back I was his first proper girlfriend and his only relationship model was with his mother who essentially worshipped him and ran around after then as I was a carer, I did most of the house stuff and kid related stuff.

Having looked at all the advice on this thread I don’t know if counselling would help. In his head, what he does is enough and he’s being short changed.

I do think I need to get out more. I’ll ask my DH to give me specific days when he can’t arrange stuff.

I don’t know how we’ll move forward though. Although we’re talking, it all feels a bit awkward and like he’s a bit of a stranger.