When you’re the ex of a narc will they always despise you and blame you? Is there any hope they will ever be able to look past themselves?

[Strawberrywine1]

Im finding it so hard dealing with my ex.

We’ve been apart 5 years but the hate from him feels like it was yesterday. A lot has happened. I stopped his contact with child because of his behaviour, a judge upheld this for a few years whilst he attended courses like a DAPP programme and anger management.

Contact resumed last year solely after they were satisfied he gained insight (very clearly never did). Our child is struggling with her emotions. Either ND and or trauma. I’ve said to him that the school are going to bring in a child psychologist to help her. I’ve said it’s possible she is suffering from trauma, she does remember all his shouting from before I left. I’m under no illusion that the fact she never sore him would have also caused trauma. He replies that I’ve caused this by stopping him seeing her for all that time for no reason and then filling her head with lies, wording it as filling her head with all the lies I’ve made up.

I never did this. I was too traumatised to talk about the relationship to her. I was honest and said we needed help from a judge etc, she already knew he shouted.

Im just so fed up that we always at this point. It’s doesn’t matter who caused what. Our relationship caused trauma and blame doesn’t help her.

Is he just unable to take any responsibility at all? I’m so sick of hearing this tale now.

Dont speak to him. Rearrange handovers so it is via anyone else.

About to go through this as cafcass have recommended unsupervised with a violent abusive narcissist.. following with interest.

Don't engage with him. There's no law to say you must speak to him.

What contact has been given?

6 yrs here and no sign of change. Totally rewritten events to suit his own narrative

I am the resident parent and was ordered to pass on relevant information. Which I have so he can do with that information what he likes. I don’t reply just pass on facts. It’s just so boring to hear the same rubbish. They certainly hold a grudge.

@Whattodo112222 after a slow introduction it’s every other weekend. He has a nice girlfriend thank god and she does a lot of the looking after.

Usually, they'll move onto a new target at some point - like the lovely new girlfriend when she's not as new, is expecting not to be spoken to like she's a piece of crap and he's got his eye on the next replacement.

@NeverDropYourMooncup he moved on years ago.

Not a hope, to answer your question.

But you'll stop caring what he says.

@JanglyBeads lol yeah. I’m actually quite proud of myself for not even getting remotely wound up or triggered like I used to , just thought yep that’s expected. Normally I’d go into a spiral of did I make it up, was he abusive blah blah but this time nope just thought what a twat!

Same here. Recently told my children they’d like me to die a slow painful death. Unbelievable.

I worry so much about the emotional manipulation. Our DD is 6 and she's only had supervised contact centre contact.

I think the trick is just continue being the best parent you can. 9 times out of 10 the children see the manipulation and abusive behaviour themselves. You can only do what you can do in your home. Don't worry about him. Don't engage on anything other than contact and keep it factual and business like.

@Whattodo112222 ah yes you have to just ignore and carry on. It does make parenting hard as they work completely opposite. I know that because I’ve said she could be suffering from trauma he will double up on the crap he tells her about me and the relationship to make sure he looks clear. Anything you do makes it worse.

Agree with previous posters. We're seven years on and the vitriol that comes from him is still unhinged. It makes me very sad from time to time because he can't get past his own irrational hatred of me and often goes out of his way to harm me and our child. I wonder about this parallel universe where we muddled through amicably and life was a lot less stressful and difficult and our child was put first in decision-making. He's in his 40s now I have no doubt he'll ever change

@Sundaysunshine22 perhaps they need to change the saying elephants never forget to narcissists!

Well 24 years later my abusive ex is still the same. My DS is now mid 20's and exh is still as bad as he ever was. He exchanged me for a hapless young woman who is still with him nearly twenty years later and she is now an alcoholic because of it. My DS despairs of him ever changing or developing any self awareness at all and has kept him at arms length since he was a teenager.
The way that I dealt with as DS grew up was to have lines of communication open, be unjudgmental of his father, answer any questions or comments as neutrally as I felt was appropriate and I never bad mouthed the ex. By the time he was about 8 DS knew that his father's behaviour and reaction to things wasn't normal and I tried to give him the tools to deal with him emotionally and mentally because that was all I could do.
I have a very good relationship with my son who realises that I did the best that I could seeing as you can't adequately co-parent with a narc. His relationship with his father isn't close (ex would say otherwise) and DS tolerates him but still hopes that one day he will change. It's sad.

@MothralovesGojira if you don’t mind what kind of tools did you pass on. I’m unsure of what to tell DD to do when he shouts and she is sad or scared when she is there?

@Strawberrywine1

I think it depends on how mature/age your DC is.
I always made sure that DS knew that he could come and talk to me about his father and that I would listen. My usual first response to any question or statement was "what do you think/why do you think that/why do you think that happened"? Then we would discuss the matter led by DS because really all he wanted was for me to confirm that his instincts about things were right - which they mainly were and make it plain that he was not to blame. We also discussed what should happen in situations under normal circumstances so that he could understand how the behaviour was abnormal.

There were several incidents where exh tried to get DS to join in the verbal abuse of his second wife and that really confused/upset DS. I suggested that perhaps distraction would be a good idea such as asking for help with a game or to leave the situation and go to the toilet etc. This worked for him although he did once try telling his father that he was wrong and that went down so badly that he never tried that again. Bizarrely exh complained to me that DS was accusing him of being abusive and 'proved' he wasn't by getting his wife on the phone to confirm that DS had made it up.

As to the tools I realised that DS was unable to always escape his father's behaviour and he would have to endure it. I taught him some meditation techniques of how to 'blank out' what was happening. I gave him a small furry keyring to keep in his pocket so that he could stroke it for calmness and that worked. I also reiterated that none of it was his fault ever and made sure that I told him that every time.
Exh took me to court several times and every time he and his wife convinced CAFCASS that they were perfect parents and that I was making things up. DS was too young to have his opinion taken into account & I was told that I was wielding undue influence. The last time we went to court DS was 10 and had seen some physical abuse so I stopped visits and took it to court. I could see CAFCASS was gearing up to whitewash again so I asked for a new officer and asked they interview DS at school and interview teaching staff too. DS confirmed the abuse and the staff told of what they'd heard from DS over the years and more importantly confirmed that I was a good engaged parent. Exh lost his access. He then got supervised access and we had a few years where he was the perfect father but eventually the mask slipped and the abuser reappeared. Luckily DS was older and better equipped to deal with him and now 'manages' his father's behaviour like you deal with an unreasonable manager at work or an annoying person on the bus.
Generally I just talked things through and confirmed to DS that his understanding was right and that none of it was his fault. I was always ready with a hug, a hot chocolate and a cartoon when he came home. I do the same now but it's now a hug, a coffee and a chat!
Gosh, I hope this helps but basically it comes down to:
listen; be open/available; let your child lead with their own thoughts; confirm that their thoughts/beliefs are valid; explain that their parent loves them but can't always put their needs first; tell them that it is never their fault; that you, as their mother, have no control/influence over their father and that it's his house, his rules; give your DC a small keyring/tiny soft toy that they hold and focus on as a small piece of you for comfort.
Most importantly religiously keep a diary of ex's behaviour and what your DC tells you and how they are before and after visits. I found this was invaluable when creating a timeline for court etc later. Also record details of phone calls, face to face communications with ex and print off emails/take screen shots of texts, WhatsApp's etc good and bad.

@MothralovesGojira thank you for your time. I have to admit I’ve stopped keeping any records as I just can’t see anything ever being done. We were at court for years and they eventually deemed him safe enough for unsupervised. I have no doubt he does love her but his own needs and his triggers are really unhealthy and no one’s responsibility but his. It’s difficult when someone isn’t just and outright monster like people tend to say there abusive exes were. I’ve know doubt he loved me also but it wasnt enough to just accept being treated badly at times. I try and teach her that. No abuse is the only answer.

@Strawberrywine1
You're welcome. Your ex sounds much like mine. I don't understand where they all come from! My ex is so self focused that he wouldn't allow his second wife to have any children because he admits that he can't stand that a child takes away attention from himself. I'm pretty sure that he never loved me, doesn't love his 2nd wife and doesn't really love his DS either. He is so very self focused and the 2nd wife's life is an utter misery - poor woman. By the time she realised that she'd fallen for the crazy ex crap it was too late and she was trapped.
All you can do is to give your DC some armour and the knowledge on how to see through their father's behaviour and they will see through it. It may well be a good idea to think about some therapy or at the very least have a chat with school who may be able to provide some support.

My son has been to a psychologist today and on the return my ex is like what's the matter with him? He was fine earlier. I had to leave the house for my sanity.

@winewinewine70 when I approach it with my ex and ask how she is with him and if he has the same problems he always says she’s absolutely fine. No point is there as they don’t/cant notice.

Does he have midweek contact?

@Whattodo112222 no

Grey rock is your friend in these situations.
When I asked for a referral to CAMHS I was threatened by exh with social services as I was the only one who had these problems with DS so it was logical that I was the cause because I was batshit crazy 🙄- this was after my DS got a kitchen knife and said he was so unhappy that he was going to stab himself. He was 8.
After this I became selective over what I told exh and only passed on relevant information like school event dates, reports, holidays, basic medical stuff etc. Every year he would create merry hell when I tried to sort out cover for the Easter, summer & Christmas holidays and arrange days out or god forbid an actual holiday away. If there was a family event and it was exh's weekend I would have to decline for all of us so that ex couldn't turn it around on me and tell DS that I didn't care because I was off having fun without him. So we (DP & I) would sort holiday cover out between us and then exh would tell DS that he couldn't see DS during the school holidays because Mummy had already taken all the days or that he couldn't take him on holiday because Mummy said no. There would be tears from him on the doorstep in front of DS with him saying Mummy said no or I'm not allowed to take you on holiday etc. The lies were unbelievable. So I decided to grey rock instead. I handed all info over to him that I legally had to in writing, banned him from coming in our home and then just refused to be drawn into face to face 'discussions' on the doorstep by having a quick hello/is everything ok/goodbye exchange. When any phone conversations became heated (always from his end) I would end the call and ask him to call back when he was open to discussion. The weirdest one was when I asked if he would like DS for extra days during the summer hols and he started having a completely different conversation shouting things like "you're telling me that I can't see my son? Why are you stopping me from seeing him? I've done nothing wrong. Why can't my family see DS". I ended the call quickly but his family all bought the crazy ex scenario and he was the centre of attention.
I answered any of his questions about DS succinctly and refused to answer any other questions that were unrelated to DS's welfare or needs.
It's tough and you have to get it straight in your own head about your boundaries and then keep to them. I was stuck for quite awhile in the 'he's DS's dad, I need to accommodate their relationship, I have to be fair, I don't want to look bad, it's DS's dad, I have to be supportive' merry-go-round until I thought that I'd lose my sanity.