Boyfriend still enmeshed with his ex-wife and her family

[LilyRose88]

I have been seeing my boyfriend for 18 months. We are both divorced and each have our own children who are grown up and have left our respective homes. I met him online and was horrified to discover after a few months that I know (and actively dislike) his ex-wife. She is a bit of a Queen Bee who is very attention seeking and dramatic, quite opposite to my temperament. They divorced in 2009 but remain good friends. When she found out that I was seeing him she tried to become friends with me and became quite unpleasant to me when I didn't jump at the chance!

My boyfriend is aware of this but he is a sweet and rather passive man who just wants a quiet life. He told me that his ex-wife irritates him but he puts up with it for the sake of the family. They all spend Christmas together at his house every year and meet up regularly for walks and coffee. I can cope with the Christmas thing and have spent the last couple of Christmases with my youngest daughter and her partner, but am not happy with the other meetings.

In addition he is also still close friends with the rest of his ex's family and talks about them with great admiration. I have met most of them and learned quite a lot about them and I'm afraid I do not like them or their behaviour towards others. We had an argument about it at the weekend as he kept insisting that they were amazing people. I thought that he and I had similar values but it became clear that we differ strongly on what we consider to be acceptable behaviour and what we are prepared to overlook. I am not sure whether there is a future for us, but I do worry that I am being too fussy and should accept that nobody is perfect.

Its hard to tell who is Bu but may help if you can give a couple of examples about the behaviour you dislike from his ex-inlaws

If he's happy seeing them all I doubt he'll stop

Can you put up with that?

Especially at Christmas?

You sound intolerant of his admirable relationship with his ex and her family.
I'd move on and find someone who suits you better.

Thank you for your replies. The behaviour is a good question. The ex's two brothers have both had a number of affairs and left marriages with young children for new partners and not kept in touch with the children. But apparently they are both very intelligent so I should admire them 🙄. The ex and her sister are both attention seeking and dramatic and quite rude to people who don't fall at their feet and adore them. There is also an ex-husband of the ex's sister who is a highly successful business man (multi millionaire) who made money from exploiting vulnerable ethnic workers in Dubai. But apparently I should admire him because he is very rich and his house overseas is like a palace.

I was doing okay with the Christmas thing as I have two daughters I can visit at Christmas, and even the meet-ups with the ex and their adult children were okay in moderation. I think it is the shock of hearing him defend her family at the weekend that has made me re-evaluate whether we are compatible.

I should add that apart from this he is the nicest guy I have ever dated. I am not young and have dated my fair share of bad boys, but he is kind and reliable and very honest.

@Lookingforunicorns I agree with you that I can be intolerant at times if people have very different values to me. I have had partners in the past who have good relationships with their exes and it has not been a problem. The difference here is that I really don't like his ex or her family.

I don't think it matters who is being unreasonable in this situation. It's quite clear that you don't like his behaviour or the people he thinks are "amazing". Your disapproval will only get worse over time and you will end up with bitter resentment towards him and the ex's family (who are obviously a big part of his life). I would call it a day sooner rather than later and save yourself a load of grief.

@ginasevern I don't have a problem with my boyfriend's behaviour as such, in fact he is normally a lovely sweet man who is probably a bit passive but I always thought we had similar values. It was his admiration for his ex's family that shocked me, along with his excuses for their behaviour.

From your update yabu.
These are personal judgements on ethics, and whilst I agree with you on them all, if it was my family I wouldn’t hate or disregard the entire person based on these things. you can still see qualities in people that have been in your life for presumably around 2 decades, even if you don’t agree with everything they do. Expecting him to condemn a close family member (because that’s what they are) is unreasonable.
I don’t think he should give up those relationships if they work for him and his children, based off an 18 month relationship.
you don’t have the same values, and you seem like you expect him to have the same opinions and thoughts as you. You don’t like his ex, who he clearly loved and at least still likes and you don’t trust or like his judgement. I don’t see how this can work without being constant drama.
There’s also lot of talk about people falling at people’s feet which seems quite dramatic when (from all you’ve told us at least) a woman tried to make friends with you. and I think if you do want to make this work you need to let go of that, and just look at the actual person and how they treat you and him.

I can see your point, he is still very much part of the family rather than moving on, it's great he's there for his kids but, you are like an outsider watching him carry on his old family life. He doesn't want to hurt you and I think he's lying that she irritates him, she clearly doesn't from the amount of time spent with her. He isn't ready and willing to move on with you.

Well, you don’t have to admire them or think they are amazing just because he does.

But you shouldn’t expect him to turn his back on longstanding connections, the family of his Dc.

In the end, maybe you and your Bf do have different values, but is he having affairs, abandoning children, exploiting vulnerable workers? I presume not. But you seem to want to control his relationship / friendship with others who do.

How far is this about values and how much to do with jealousy and resentment about his existing network?

Are you bring judgmental and controlling? Or does his tolerance of the less attractive aspects of people he has known for a long time affect your conscience?

Well actually I would expect any partner I had to not think that men who abandon their children are 'amazing' so I would feel exactly the same as you.

@Chaiandtoast Thank you, I agree that it would be unreasonable to expect him to condemn people who have been in his life for a long time, and I'm not expecting him to do this. It was more the shock of realising that we don't necessarily have the same values. I haven't asked him to stop seeing any of them.

@newyearnewknees I know, and it's weird because he has kept in close touch with his two children and the two step-children who his ex-wife had from her previous marriage. He even tried to say that the brothers' ex-wives must have poisoned the children against the fathers. I asked him if had any evidence of this and he agreed that he had none.

@TempleOfBloom Thank you, this has given me food for thought. I don't believe that I am jealous of his existing network of connections, as we are both older and have our own histories. It is difficult that I don't like his ex-wife but I can work around that. Funnily enough he told me that his ex-wife irritated him before I even knew who she was. I remember as it surprised me because it seemed out of character for him to say something like that.

I know that I can be judgmental about others as I have a strong set of values, and this situation has touched me deeply. It has certainly made me look at myself and consider how much of this is down to my own character flaws.

I suppose only you know how you feel about this then.
he’s going to keep seeing them. You talking negatively isn’t helping anyone. So you have to be polite and leave him to get on with it, or not.
I’d personally be more bothered by his own behaviour, is he a good person, is he doing anything you’re morally against etc. Rather than the morals of people he associates with due to his family. You could even look at the friends he’s actually picked in his life to see if they’re similar.
i think it takes more to be around people who you don’t agree with and see some good in them, than to cancel everyone.
but equally if you don’t like how people behave and you don’t want to be around them and can’t understand someone who does then that’s your decision to make and it would be reasonable to feel that way.

@Chaiandtoast 'There’s also lot of talk about people falling at people’s feet which seems quite dramatic when (from all you’ve told us at least) a woman tried to make friends with you.'

I have left out quite a lot of detail about the lady in question and what happened as I didn't want to write a novel or give out any identifying information, but it was a lot more than just a woman trying to make friends with me.

All this: we have different values really means, I think I'm a better person.

Maybe he values: not judging others, accepting you never really know other people's stories, other people make mistakes, and it's better to focus on your own limitations than others?

You keep saying the ex wife is attention seeking. I suspect that's code for confident and outgoing.
Either way he loved her once and she's important in his life.

I'm sure she annoys him. They are divorced. I suspect you and your judgeyness can be quite annoying too.

The family are people he values even if not everything they've done is admirable.

Do you not have flawed people who you still love or like in your life?
If not I imagine your circle must be a very small one consisting of just you and your 'values.'

There are really no rules here. I'm still close friends with two of my brother's exes (one the mum of his daughter) and we all still have them over for BBQs etc.

But they're lovely people and it's all amicable, despite both of them cheating on my Dbro.

On the other hand my husband insists on keeping a close friendship with his ex who is frankly a conniving cow. I've given him an ultimatum so we'll see. But yes, depends on the people involved. I have no issue with any of his other exes.

@RachelWalshsDog Harsh but you make a fair point. I think we all have our own set of values and boundaries but I don't think mine make me better than anyone else. I'm not going to go into detail about his ex's behaviour as that would not be fair, but it is not a case of being confident and outgoing.

I do have a large circle of friends and of course we do not agree on everything. Some of them even voted for Brexit 😂. I can see that I am not doing myself any favours by the way that I have described the situation with my boyfriend and his ex's family. Maybe my choice of words has been clumsy. The shortest way to describe the situation is that he surprised me at the weekend by the way he spoke about members of his ex's family. And it made me realise how enmeshed he is with them and that maybe he and I are not suited.

There’s two separate issues here I think - one is around how much time he spends with his ex and family. The other is how his admiration for these people reflects his values and reveals differences between you.

I wouldn’t be as bothered by the first but I don’t think yabu to desire a bf with more time and focus on you. I think it’s controlling to try and change this, but something to be aware of if you move on.

The second is something much bigger. It’s hard to really see another person early on in a relationship but differences in values don’t go away. Race, creed, politics are small fry but values are something you need to be aligned on.

These people are his children's family and therefore his. It's good that he wants to maintain a relationship with them. You either need to find a way to like it or leave. Asking him to choose won't end well for you.

Also, if you dislike an entire family, that he gets on with, are you compatible anyway?

@Getonnow I don't think I have ever said that I have asked him to choose or tried to control who he sees. For 18 months we have been getting on just fine with him seeing his ex and adult children without me and meeting up with his ex's family. I have also met his adult children without his ex being there and get on well with them. I would like to be a greater part of his life but have accepted that no relationship is perfect and have always enjoyed the time that we do spend together.

The issue is your second point as it is now clear that I am not keen on his ex's family. Until the weekend I hadn't really considered this to be a problem, but I do now need to decide whether we are compatible. Its such a shame as he is a lovely guy. I don't want to rush into a decision and this thread had made me look at myself and my motivations.

See, I'd challenge whether he is a lovely guy, if he admires the kind of behaviours you describe. What is it exactly that makes him lovely if is values are so off?

@Getonnow I think you've hit the nail on the head. Up until the weekend I thought he was a lovely guy. He is kind, loyal, considerate, listens to me, doesn't let me down, and is good company. And I thought we shared the same sort of values. It was a shock to hear him defend his ex's brothers in the way that he did.

I can cope with not liking his ex or her sister, as that is a matter of personality rather than values. His children are lovely, and he has done a good job of being a present father to them, both during his marriage and after the divorce. In fact the children chose to live with him after the split.

It is his admiration for individuals who turn their back on their children and exploit vulnerable people to make money that shocked me.

I have taken a bit of a bashing on this thread and called judgemental and controlling. I haven't been accused of either in the past so it was a bit of a surprise but it has caused me to look at myself. I will own up to judging people who are not good parents or who exploit others and using a poor choice of words to explain why I don't like his ex, but I don't think I am controlling.

I’d hate this personally as it would make me feel like the OW