DP's cleanliness standards

[franticfeb]

So, first of all, I'd like to say that this post is not about personal levels of hygiene. DP is always clean and tidy.

We've been together about 6 years. We don't live together, mostly because I've been a lone parent bringing up kids (not his) who are now young adults. This is key to what I'm about to describe as I guess, living separately, it's never really been an issue.

DO was really ill. He was due to drive over from where he lives to mine a few Fridays ago. He usually does this so we can spend weekends together (we live separately in our own homes during the week).

Anyway, he felt ill and unable to drive during the journey. Stopped and rang me. I said I'd come and collect him and drive him back home as he was too ill to continue the journey.

On driving him back home, I helped him indoors, only to be absolutely gobsmacked at the state of his flat. The kitchen was filthy (dirty dishes from over a week dumped in the sink; bin overflowing; surfaces full of crap; butter opened and left uncovered; bathroom floor disgusting, only surfacely cleaned with hair and dust on the floor. Everywhere was ... well .,, the only word I could use was 'minging'. I work in social care and have referred clients to social services for less. I was shocked. He explained it away as having felt ill this past week and unable to clean but it has really made me feel very uneasy. I've only been to his a few times with him preferring to cone to mine (there's more space and I have had caring responsibilities for my kids). As such, I've never really thought about his living standards. As I said, he doesn't present, in himself, as lacking in hygiene. But seriously, his place was filthy (and mine, whilst in no way is a 'show home', at the least is basically clean.

I'm now questioning if I ever want to live with him, and what this means for our relationship. I get the argument that we could live separately forever but his standards were so far removed from mine, I feel quite uneasy now. It's hard to explain but something to do with the gap between how he outwardly presents and how he actually lives on a day-to-day basis. I left - and still feel - really unsettled by this, even if we were to live separately.

For background context, I was married for years before this relationship and swore never again to get into a relationship where I ended up doing all the shitwork of solely cleaning a house. He's a lovely guy in all other respects but I feel rocked by the state of his flat, and, perhaps mire so, the discrepancy between his outward self presentation and how he inwardly lives.

Wtf do I do now? Has anyone ever laid down an ultimatum around house cleanliness - if so, was it successful?

I imagine that it's easy to go from just untidy to awful if you are sick. However, I really wouldn't move in with him.

You know full well that his living conditions are nothing to do with him being ill. Don't move in with him because you will spend the rest of your days tidying up after him. Would be a massive turnoff for me and I suspect, is for you.

That's telling you had to tell him to clean up after himself after his own bath.

What is he doing when you're cooking, washing up, tidying, making the bed, etc.?

Does he buy any groceries or cook?

Nah if you’re unwell you’re hardly eating, he’s clearly been eating plenty and this is obviously his norm, especially as the place was a mess the last time you called unannounced. I guess if you have plans to live together, don’t!!

*What is he doing when you're cooking, washing up, tidying, making the bed, etc.?

Does he buy any groceries or cook*

I typically cook as I'm better at it but he will wash up/peel beg. He will change the sheets if I state they need changing. Very rarely does he vacuum but he's only here 3 nights.

We share food bills when he's over. I've no concerns with him paying his way. He does do this quite happily (he has a job)

I'd have a conversation with him about it. Something along the lines of 'I know you had been ill when I took you home last week, but the state of your house really took me aback. I've got to be honest, it's been a real turn off romantically and I'm questioning our relationship. Your hygiene standards are so low that it shocked me. I'd be horrified at a teenager living like that - never mind an adult'.

And I'd see what he had to say. I'm not one to mince words.

I think that mumsnet can get a bit weird over cleanliness. Dishes in the sink isn't going to hurt anyone. If it's not affecting anyone else, and he doesn't have a pest issue, there's not really an intrinsic virtue in cleanliness.

It's moving in together, or you having to spend time at his place, that it would present a problem.

He lives alone and you hardly ever go there? He probably doesn't get any other visitors either? So it's possible that he's just let things go because he has no incentive. "The house is a bit messy, needs a spring clean, but it'll wait until next week, no one will see it" sort of attitude. Things can start off like that and before you know it, it's snowballed into an shithole.

That's more of an explanation than an excuse. I don't think it means that he definitely can't keep a clean and tidy house, just that he doesn't see it as a priority right now. He may be fine if he's living together with someone. But there's always a real risk of him not pulling his weight domestically without you being firm with him.

For me his attitude when you went over would be the most important tell- was he embarrassed by it?? If not he thinks it’s normal and you need to address this.

when I met dh he lived with a friend and their house was awful - especially kitchen/ bathroom. We had words and I spent hours when they put it up for sale and then again before they actually moved out. I was very clear our house together would not ever be like that. And to be fair he’s probably more obsessed with cleanliness than me now (although not the bathroom) HOWEVER he was young when we met and acknowledged it wasn’t really acceptable just bad habits. You definitely need to talk and see but I do get the pain

"He said something as we arrived about the place being a mess as he'd been too ill to clear up - but clearly not too ill to cook and eat for days on end. Just too ill to clear up after himself ... It takes no time to put things in a bin, though, does it?"

He knows he's an inveterate slob and he lives like this all the time. He wanted to make out to you that his recent illness (probably from food poisoning given his non existent hygiene standards) was why there was filth and mess everywhere and that were it not for him being out of action, his place would be clean and tidy. This just isn't true. His only saving grace is that he knows he's dirty. Plenty would survey the scene and swear blind it was perfectly fine.

He's 40, he's not going to change and I would say the chances of you cohabiting happily in the future are zero.

There's a lot of judgy pants here. An untidy house isn't a moral failing. Currently, it sounds like it isn't impacting anyone.

Untidy is one thing but dirty to the point of unhygienic is another. Especially if OP is thinking about moving in with him in the future.

"Unhygenic" is very subjective, though, and not usually very scientific. I mean, I don't think that having the butter uncovered (in January!) is a crime against humanity.

Yes, in OP's situation I would want to see a change before I moved in with him. I have seen men who were willing to change pick up their game here, however.

There’s a difference between dirt and mess from a week and long term grunge. I’d run a tissue along the top of a door and have a look in the bottom of the fridge. If they’re clean, it probably IS just that he’s been ill. When I hurt my back and was immobile for three or four days, I was horrified at how quickly things got messy.

‘Dishes in the sink’?! Please!

Clearly it’s A LOT worse than that.

I don’t know why you’re accusing people of being ‘judgy pants’ like that’s going to be some sort of shaming exercise.

Yes. I am ‘judgy pants’ (if those are the words you must use) about someone who can’t even manage basic adulting.

Freely happy to be accused of being a ‘judgy pants’.

I live on my own and haven’t done any real
housework for about a week. There’s a couple of bits of post on my dining table, a box in the hallway that needs to go in the recycling and some laundry waiting to be put away. But my dishes are done, my bathroom is clean and I wouldn’t be embarrassed if someone popped round unexpectedly. He sounds like a slob.

If you like the relationship as it is, and don’t want it to ‘progress’ to living together, just try to forget this unfortunate revelation.

….or rather, store it up somewhere seldom visited, and bring it out if the idea of him coming to live with you and not keeping his own place arises.

@MidnightSerenader But why? It's not hurting anyone, and people come on here calling him all sorts of names.

Honestly, I would judge someone far more harshly for driving a large SUV than I would for an untidy house.

I’d run a tissue along the top of a door and have a look in the bottom of the fridge. If they’re clean, it probably IS just that he’s been ill

Bloody hell. If I found someone (whoever they are) doing that in my flat to check my cleaning standards they'd be booted out for good.

🤷🏻‍♀️ Judge away - what’s that got to do with anyone?

The OP is thinking of moving this sub-standard specimen into her home.

Of course she should be judging whether he’s up to to task!

He’s not, by the way.

Leave him to it,you can have a relationship without living together.

It's not an untidy house though. It's a house that the OP says is absolutely filthy and would be referred on if he was with social services.

@MidnightSerenader Well, no, she implied that living apart was a long term option. And a pretty sensible one, in my opinion, given that she has kids.

So this person who otherwise seems to have good qualities is a "substandard person" for having dishes in the sink?

I think there's a big difference between being untidy and downright manky. Dirty kitchens and scum encrusted bathrooms is plain yerggh.

It doesn't take much to clear up behind you.